14 replies to this topic

[Fred013]

Ok, when I say 'new reason' I mean a reason I just discovered.
From patch notes:

Narc Beacon Improvements:

- Narc now makes a `Mech targetable to everyone on the opposing team.
- When an ECM "turns off" the other effects of a Narc beacon, it turns off this one as well.

- When a `Mech has been hit by a Narc beacon, the effects of the Narc beacon automatically end if the `Mech takes a cumulative 35 damage from the time the Narc beacon hit.
- Each time a `Mech is hit with an enemy Narc beacon, the damage counter resets.

Ok. I would like a dev to write up a FULL summary of verything NARC does, because I love this weapon. I want to put one on my RVN-3L. Anyway, I just took out the trial trebuchet (very fun)
even though i have 4 mechs of my own. I was wondering if I should get one. Anyway, I saw a mech about 250m out and shot it with NARC. (the trial treb comes with this)Yes, the little wi-fi thing comes up to say it's NARCed. Love that symbol. I released a volley of LRMs his way, and all hit. The NARC symbol faded, because 2 LRM15s do more than 35 dmg. So i NARCed him again, repeated and it vanished again. This is pointless! NARC needs at least the timer back, as 35 dmg is way too low. It took a field test to work out.

Plz hotfix, just bring back the timer. It was better than this.

Edited by Fred013, 07 March 2013 - 01:24 AM.

[Slashmckill]

It still has a 20 second timer, check for your self, go into training ground with the trial treb fire a narc and watch as the the symbol fades after 20 seconds. Honestly i think the 35 damage part is just fine, that means scouts will have to keep narc'ing things, the problem is that is still doesn't do what it should do, keeping the enemy marked without line of sight. (the time limit needs to go)

Edited by Slashmckill, 07 March 2013 - 01:30 AM.

[Sephlock]

Narc needs to ignore ECM or at the very least only have its range reduced by ECM rather than being completely freaking negated by it. As it is, it seems like there are WAY too many things that just plain shut off NARC and even under OPTIMAL conditions its not good enough to justify its weight and the low ammo/ton ratio...

Slashmckill, on 07 March 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

Honestly i think the 35 damage part is just fine, that means scouts will have to keep narc'ing things

... you mean you want it to be a hard-to-use, SEVERELY ammo limited, super heavy TAG laser?

[Slashmckill]

Sephlock, on 07 March 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

... you mean you want it to be a hard-to-use, SEVERELY ammo limited, super heavy TAG laser?

You stopped reading half-way through didn't you.

Slashmckill, on 07 March 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

the problem is that is still doesn't do what it should do, keeping the enemy marked without line of sight. (the time limit needs to go)

Anyway, this is my reasoning.

First 35 damage is quite a bit of damage for smaller mechs which you should be narc'ing anyway since slow mechs are easy enough to target.

Secondly the thing is as hard to use as srms, meaning not very, (could use a small speed boost)

Lastly ecm is it's own bs that needs to be fixed, also ecm beats narc in the 180m bubble even in table top.

Tag is supposed to be a line of sight tool and narc is supposed to be fire and forget tool, both having their uses. (The key words being "Supposed to".)

Edited by Slashmckill, 07 March 2013 - 01:52 AM.

[Sephlock]

You mean fire, then forget for... one volley... then reapply...

Putting aside how absurd that is on the face of it, how about ammo concerns? You don't get many NARC shots per ton...

[Slashmckill]

Sephlock, on 07 March 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

You mean fire, then forget for... one volley... then reapply...

Putting aside how absurd that is on the face of it, how about ammo concerns? You don't get many NARC shots per ton...

Assuming that one volley actually hits the mech in question, why not, it's done it's job to provide targeting. If you want the mech to stay targeted forever tell your team not to fire lrms at it. (i'd hate to throw realism into everyones stompy mech game but at some point one of those missles is going to destroy that beacon)

Yes, ammo is a concern, i myself am a bit biased in this regard as i have 0 problem connecting with projectile weapons, however, yes the ammo could use a boost. The narc launcher is a heavy investment and extra ammo would be a nice incentive to use the thing. (I'am thinking an extra 4-6 shots per ton.)

Edited by Slashmckill, 07 March 2013 - 02:12 AM.

[Mr Mantis]

It is not a very powerful per ton device. They would need to make the nark ammo much lighter per shot and/or timer go away. I wish it was more useful or at least in line with tag.

[Sephlock]

Well, if I hit an enemy in the back with a NARC beacon and he continues to face my teammates, my Narc beacon SHOULD LAST FOREVERRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Or at least until the enemy is missiled to death.

[Slashmckill]

Well the line has to be drawn somewhere even if that is a more realistic version of it, it's just not good for game balance. (Like PGI *zing*)

[Windsaw]

So do I understand this correctly:
- The line-of-sight limitation is still there.
- The 20 seconds limitation is still there.
- The ECM-turnoff is still there.
- Additionally, each NARC is deactivated after one LRM volley, which it didn't do before.

Basically: They took a weapon with the least possible usefulness, which barely everybody uses because of its size and limitations, and chose to nerf it?
Is this really true?
There was no buffing aspect in the last update, just a nerf?

I really want to know why they did that.
I mean, with all other things I would like to see gone or buffed or whatever in this game, I can usually understand why developers do it or want to keep it in a way I don't like.
But in this case I completely fail to comprehend what could have possibly been their reasoning for this change.

Fred013, on 07 March 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

- Narc now makes a `Mech targetable to everyone on the opposing team.
- When an ECM "turns off" the other effects of a Narc beacon, it turns off this one as well.

I have not tried this, but does this mean if you want to target and fire at a friendly unit you can hit it with NARC, then target it?
Unless there is an ECM around of course.
What use is this supposed to be?

[Sephlock]

No it means that when you hit an enemy with a Narc beacon, everyone on your team can target them for the 0-20 seconds it will actually be active...

[Johnny Morgan]

I've been testing it out on my Raven 3L and it's not bad, it's just not good either.

The 270M Range on the NARC missile also kind of sucks.

[Slashmckill]

Windsaw, on 07 March 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

I really want to know why they did that.

I mean, with all other things I would like to see gone or buffed or whatever in this game, I can usually understand why developers do it or want to keep it in a way I don't like.

But in this case I completely fail to comprehend what could have possibly been their reasoning for this change.

I don't know either, there are quite a few people rather good with numbers on these forums, i don't know why PGI doesn't just select a few of them to throw some calculations around to balance stuff better since they seem to be short on staff. (i think they are short on staff, or am i thinking of something else)

Edited by Slashmckill, 07 March 2013 - 02:25 AM.

[Sephlock]

Its all the things that outright nullify it that really kill Narc beacons.

The tiny amount of damage needed to end its effect, the tiny amount of TIME needed to end its effect, the fact that ECM flat out makes it useless...

The fact that its dumbfire, insanely low on ammo, ridiculously heavy for what it does, and is short range to boot is just icing on the cake...

[Vapor Trail]

Sephlock, on 07 March 2013 - 02:20 AM, said:

No it means that when you hit an enemy with a Narc beacon, everyone on your team can target them for the 0-20 seconds it will actually be active...

Provided there isn't a handy ECM bubble around to duck into.

ECM is part of the problem. ECM should prevent indirect missile fire. Not direct missile fire. If you have LOS, you can hit with missiles. Tag and NARC (with a decent damage boost, say 50-75 damage) should just increase the amount of missiles hit, or tighten the group. ECM should block TAG and NARC. If no ECM, NARC acts as it's own spotter. Spotting should be an ACTION, not a result of an action. Basically you have to press and hold a button (and NOT SHOOT) to spot for LRM indirect fire.

The problem is that pretty much the entire targeting system has to be reworked to make this happen... and I doubt that PGI has got the time. Or, frankly, the inclination. Because obviously ECM is "Good 'Nuff."

Edited by Vapor Trail, 07 March 2013 - 02:46 AM.