19 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

It is said, that the actual firing system of MWO favors skill over random probabilistic.
Some of you can remember the time at winter 2011. Were there was the discussion if MWO shots should be fired via point and click or if the Mech should do the shooting – as far as I can remember the numbers were even.

Now I have spent some time to think about a system that favors both.

This concept is far from over, and I doubt that any chance will be introduced. But it’s a theoretical question and shows that it could be possible to bring both ideas together.

Stationary targets:


Moving targets:


Feel free to discuss.

Language problems may occure... will do the best to remove any clarification

Edited by Karl Streiger, 20 March 2013 - 03:09 AM.

[Voidcrafter]

There could be some calculations done based on the distance/target speed and the shot travelling speed - but all that, I think, would remain theorycrafting.
One should either "feel" how it's done or should practice until get that feeling - atleast that's what I do
I depend mostly on SRM and ballistic(read: AC5 / UAC5 / AC2 / AC10 Gauss sometimes) , I like to refer to those weapons as "Skill" weapons, since they require some effort to hit a moving target properly.
Not to mention to hit a moving target properly in the desired body part.
I admire people go the same way - I think that's the weapons that make this game challenging aside from the team play elements.
And so - I admire your idea too

[von Pilsner]

Aiming is fine how it is...

[MustrumRidcully]

I don't think we'll ever see significant changes to convergence and aiming.
That said, my other idea how to deal with convergence and aiming without nerfing any of that and just adjusting mechs to fit this paradigm has also no hope of being done, I think.

[LordDante]

ballistic weapons (exept the gauss) should have more drop !
its so silly that u aim at a target thats 800 m away and dont have to compensate for the drop.

[Aethon]

LordDante, on 20 March 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

ballistic weapons (exept the gauss) should have more drop !
its so silly that u aim at a target thats 800 m away and dont have to compensate for the drop.

Your mech has fire control systems that handle this for you. If you read the novels, one particular group forgot to adjust them to the local gravity on a moon they landed on, and all their ballistic weaponry shots were flying over their targets.

[Karl Streiger]

Aethon, on 20 March 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

Your mech has fire control systems that handle this for you. If you read the novels, one particular group forgot to adjust them to the local gravity on a moon they landed on, and all their ballistic weaponry shots were flying over their targets.

Well you are right...the targeting and tracking system will consider the gravity and the wind and anything else - resulting in a firing solution...and so the shot is fired... however in MWO the shot goes there were you aim at.
With the very high v0 of 1000m/s for the Gauss...however the drop of the bullet could be ignored.

[Vassago Rain]

Why don't you play TT with your dice, instead of insisting an FPS game adds randomness like call of duty?

[Roland]

So you could switch off your tracking computer if you wanted to bullseye swamp rats womp rats in your T-16?

[TheForce]

the sad truth...because the primary audience for this game are:

1. people who were introduced to MechWarrior through MW2 and think MW2 is the lore.
2. MinmaxWarriors that don't give a fraking feldercarb about the lore and want to blow up robots in 2 shots.

devs need to make money from the primary audience.

Edited by TheForce, 20 March 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

so as i thought understanding problems because of bad writing skill of mine

i did not said anything about random. Just about a mathematical spread.
As you should see. Aiming ist still vital for effective shooting.
For example you want to hit right arm. you have to aim right so that a larger cone is projected. Now fire one shot of a single weapon. this shot will orientate at the center. 2 shots will hit left and right of the center. based on the number of shots they will spread but not random at all.
so a real skilled player can still snipe or choose brute force to overwhelm a target.
Maybe you should be able to switch of TTS bzt as you remember but all things like range etc have to be inputed manualy.

I would look forward if guys who still think that it is skill to point with a mouse cursor go over this topic you are missing a goodpart of abstraction ability and self reflection.

As said it is just theoretical because of the audiance MWO has commited to.

[zverofaust]

No. I hated this design choice in World of Tanks, though I definitely see the merits of it and I can't say with any sort of authority whether or not this would actually "work" in MWO. It might be interesting, or it could be abysmal.

[Merky Merc]

TheForce, on 20 March 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

the sad truth...because the primary audience for this game are:

1. people who were introduced to MechWarrior through MW2 and think MW2 is the lore.
2. MinmaxWarriors that don't give a fraking feldercarb about the lore and want to blow up robots in 2 shots.

Oy, I started with MW3 get it right!

Crazy that they want to make a MW game similar to other games in the MW franchise.

[Kmieciu]

I liked the targeting computer worked Mechwarrior 3 - it showed you where to aim to compensate for projectile speed.
But according to the Battletech rules IS Targeting Computer weighs 1 tonne per 4 tonnes of controlled weapons. So for double Gauss Rifles it would weigh 30/4= 8 (rounded up) tonnes.
And that is way too heavy... Even if it was two tonnes, a competitive player would prefer to have another tonne of ammo. Or ECM!.

Edited by Kmieciu, 20 March 2013 - 11:39 PM.

[Komtur]

LordDante, on 20 March 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

ballistic weapons (exept the gauss) should have more drop !
its so silly that u aim at a target thats 800 m away and dont have to compensate for the drop.

You have an high tech Mech with finest electronics and a fusion engine, so why should the targeting computer not do this for you?
If you want to change it, than please also insert wind (value and direction) and other physical conditions like aerodynamic drag and so on.

Or leave well alone.

[Khobai]

Aimings fine. The problem is damage.

[Karl Streiger]

Khobai, on 21 March 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:

Aimings fine. The problem is damage.

Maybe we should make a vote where everybody vote for the problems he sees in the actual game:
here are mine - rating from 1 to 5

3 mechlab
3 boating
5 roF
4 heat system
1 dhs
5 convergence
1 damage in general
3 ECM
2 lack of physical damage
2 SRM
1 LRM
4 PPC are nobrainer now

So it looks like: I'm just whining...and should move to table and dice eh?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 21 March 2013 - 05:33 AM.

[Vermaxx]

Mechlab isn't finished
Boating is canon
Rof might be too high, but lower becomes a major issue with the want it now crowd
Heat system I actually like. It forces you to pick between spam and precision.
Convergence works fine with arm lock
Damage in general is fine, missile splash is retarted
ECM is broken
Physical damage (melee) is never coming. Collision damage is in, we need tripping back
SRM is splash damage, above
LRM is splash damage, above
PPC are still cannons, with travel time, and can miss. They also heat like a *****

[Karl Streiger]

Vermaxx, on 21 March 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

Convergence works fine with arm lock

I mean the other direction...there shouldn't be multiple weapon hit a single location in one salvo convergence

[Shumabot]

This forum can't be trusted to have ideas that wouldn't destroy this game faster than the devs are already doing.