13 replies to this topic

[Gevurah]

I've seen numerous 'Fix the boats' posts, which set me thinking - what's the problem of boats?

Why do they occur?

There is no penalty for boating shy of the possibility of shutdown. However, one interesting mechanic which has been brought up before (and I'm bringing up again, duh) is that of 'Heat scale effects'.

This is to say the further up the heat scale you go, the more consequences you suffer.

That way it's not a binary choice such as "I am not overheated, therefore I can fire -- or I am overheated and thus shut down."

There should be consequences, just as in tabletop (look I know a lot of people say MW is not equal to TT.. I agree. But there are good ideas there and in some cases PGI reinvents the wheel - balance is one of those areas).



As heat scaled in TT several things happened:
Your speed decreased. (Max speed went down as the heat went higher)
Your accuracy decreased. (Accuracy got worse as the heat got higher)
You had a CHANCE to shutdown. (could be overriden) - up to a hard shutdown limit. So as you went up at set points there were RNG chances to cause a shutdown.
You had a CHANCE for an ammo explosion (most damage/shots left would go first).
The actual PILOT took damage. (Perhaps introduce a concussive-style effect, ringing ears, bright lights, etc).

All of these factors would make boating virtually non-existant or a risky proposition at best. I know personally the only thing I'd be boating would be more heat sinks O_o.

While flavor is always cool, I think the reality is that this would significantly hamper players who chose to not pick a heat efficient, varied loadout - which is part of the reason you see all those 'stock mechs' setup the way they are. There's a reason they were setup that way, you know

Edited by Gevurah, 20 March 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[DoktorVivi]

Absolutely, yes.

[focuspark]

OP forgot an Abstain option.

voted yes, because we need some form of heat scale effects

[Aurrous]

I think any time you over heat your nuclear reactor there should be negative consequences.. (bad things happen.)
Same goes for not properly cooling your laser equipment before firing.. (bad things happen to the equipment.)
Overheating your barrel (bad things happen.)

Many real life examples of all of the things are available..

i can understand if they didn't implement it because of the fan base they are trying to draw in.. but it fits this universe..

[Sadist Cain]

yes yes yes yes, the current heat system is such a cop out.... You're either hot or you're not! now you can either override, stay hot and go boom or cool shot... not really much going on there.

Scaled effects specifically designed for mwo with inspiration from TT is defo the way to go

[Gevurah]

focuspark, on 20 March 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

OP forgot an Abstain option.

voted yes, because we need some form of heat scale effects

Per the suggestion post:

"Question 1 Answer 3 (optional) must read: Abstain"


So I opted not to add it.

Edited by Gevurah, 21 March 2013 - 05:15 AM.

[Kahoumono]

The heat scale speed loss should be more prononced on smaller engines and the loss in overall speed less for big engines. This would do two obvious things, make retreat possible and discourage brawling lights.

At the moment if you ran into a group of mechs with similar speeds the only option was to fight as you are taken down. If the enemy mechs were to lose 20% of their speed as they spiked their heat while trying to running and gunning you could potentially get away back to the safety of your group. If a brawling light mech were to lose 20% of the speed I doubt they'd have as much success running through an enemy formation firing undiscriminatly as they can currently do.

[MasterErrant]

I agree in substance but many of the heat effects wouldn't work in this format. just a move and acc effect would be crippling... and perhaps a cooldown increase for weapons.

Boating is part of the game. but it is overdone here.

Though I'm not sure the Devs are listening.

Go to the training grounds and see what they are running...lol.

[Reno Blade]

Yes!
There is no logic in "no damage if you shutdown with 160% heat, but damage if you override with 101% heat".
Reducing movementspeed and turning/aiming speed above 50% heat is the best (and easy) way to balance heat and alpha strike builds.
edit: spelling

Edited by Reno Blade, 19 April 2013 - 06:12 AM.

[Gevurah]

Thanks for keeping this topic alive. I personally would love to see heat be more of an issue; it's the one mitigating factor that is simply underutilized - even a mild increase in heat effects in the last 20-30% would be a huge change. I also agree with you saying 160% causes no issues but 101 after override does cause issues. That's a bad implementation by PGI which allows exploitative builds.

[ekster]

Yes please! While boating is going to happen in a game like this... the gameplay is becoming silly at times as it's a game of who can alpha more.

Accuracy/speed adjustment alone would open up the game to a lot more tactics and variety. Lights can finally properly run away, instead of being chased down by a medium at almost the same speed who has twice the arsenal and doesn't slow down as it keeps shooting. Assaults and heavies can actually starter using other weapons than PPCs and Gauss... they might even bring in some LRMs, SRMs, MGs or smaller lasers for back up and variety.

[Terror Teddy]

Yes Yes Yes!

HEAT is the great equalizer and should punish all.

[Donas]

Yep. +1. My hope is that this is all ready in the pipe, and that coolshot was implemented early, much like the explanation for ECM being released before any of the effective counters.

Coolshot was exactly the opposite solution to the heat problem that was needed. More Dakka was not what was missing. lol

So yeah, hopefully its all ready in the system, and the cause/solution pieces to it are just being released separately.

[RedDragon]

Donas, on 19 April 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

Yep. +1. My hope is that this is all ready in the pipe, and that coolshot was implemented early, much like the explanation for ECM being released before any of the effective counters.

Quote

Prosperity Park: Will the Heat mechanism be changed in the future such that Overheating to greater than, lets say 150%, would result in inescapable, guaranteed Heat Damage regardless if your Mech is Powered Down?
A: We’re happy with the existing system, so I don’t see this being added anytime soon.

But yeah, it's a great (and necessary) idea. It should have been implemented right from the start.