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Please Rebalance Projectile Weapons/gauss Rifles.


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#1 Valdez Raptor

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:27 PM

Since people showed me to post here here's a repost plus some edits to my original topic.

I waited a bit before posting this, waited till more information came out on weapons, and from in game experience and there is something I need to get out.

Projectile weapons need to have their damage nerfed outside of their intended ranges. Far too often it feels that weapons that are meant to be effective at say a range of 450m are almost as good at ranges of 900m or more. This shouldn't be. Should they be useless? Maybe, but probably not, but this needs to be addressed.

Now the Gauss rifle, rebalance this weapon please? 3 hp for them? Really 3? And then they explode, a weapon with no explosive component to them? Many times I feel they are a greater danger to their user than to other people becuase they explode after the first time you get hit and takes out huge sections of your internals.

Buff their HP to something that's respectable and logical. If you want a counter balance, increase their min range is one way, and the applied readjustments to weapon's affectiveness when outside their intended max range will help.

With gauss rifles explosion, the capacitor exploding crap won't cut it. I'm okay with them doing damage when going boom, but they do MORE damage than weapons with EXPLOSIVE components. That's the issue.

Also the damage drop off for the range isn't enough. I've seen AC 2's do well enough at ranges well over their optimal range. I use them as an example but all of them need a tweak.

And I said it once in this post I'll say it again. Really? 3 HP for a guass weapon? They are better ways to balance the weapon than to nerf the HP to retardely low levels. I don't want OP I want actual balance not over nerfing, and if anyone here who's played this game long enough you know well PGI likes to over nerf things first then balance first maybe.

#2 Jaxass

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:33 PM

Last thing ballistics need is a nerf, get over it. Can tell you're obviously not a ballistic user

#3 Valdez Raptor

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:40 PM

View PostJaxass, on 20 March 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

Last thing ballistics need is a nerf, get over it. Can tell you're obviously not a ballistic user


I have ballistic Mech's, don't make an assumption becuase I call for a balancing you don't like. All but 2 of my mechs uses ballistics. Also asides from adjusting their damage when past their optimal range, I called for overall improvement on some projectile weapons.

Edited by Valdez Raptor, 20 March 2013 - 09:42 PM.


#4 Maurdakar

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:05 PM

Lasers can still do 1dmg at 2x range. Ballistics at 3x.
Most weapons have ranges of 0 ->

Ballistics require you dedicate tons too ammo, so you have a finite amount of shots. There is also projectile speed and drop to consider. Lasers are more precise, instant and a dot. So if you're skilled to

As to what you said, Gauss rifles has an equivalent tonnage to damage ratio but virtually zero heat buildup and an impressive range.

TLDR: Because video games.

#5 Arktiswylf

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:21 PM

@Valdez

Ballistics do not need a nerf, Ballistics are just meh right now. Their high weight and ammo needs make it impossible to boat them, as well as make them less appealing to grab when the other options are the bugged 4 times dmg LRMs and PPC's which beat ballistics in long range, or the SRMs and Large lasers that beat ballistics in short range.

I mean Crap try to hit a light mech with ballistics. Once they at least introduce the Server Rewind mechanic for Ballistics and make it possible to use them with anything over 120 ping, And if they add Clan Tech ballistics, then maybe they could use some readjusting. Till then either make them stronger or nerf the competition.

#6 Frostiken

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:26 PM

Gauss still needs a minimum range mechanic. It's ****-easy to use and making it 'delicate' doesn't actually change that.

Given that there's only a few ways to justify a 'low damage' minimum range, instead do something like this:

Posted Image

****** lore explanation - because the gauss rifle is a precision, free-floating weapon, it's controlled by several microservos that constantly work to keep the weapon accurate by accomplishing auto-boresight operations when the mech has finished (or is at reduced) movement states. To ensure maximum accuracy the auto-boresight works to properly calibrate the weapon for ultimate precision, while keeping the delicate weapon safe from any damage resulting from mechanical shock to the mech chassis.

In the above example, the player just rotated his mech all the way to the left (ignore that he doesn't actually have a gauss rifle). Because he rotated all the way, the box is still stuck to the right, and gradually converges to the reticule. After a short time he can fire, making it okay at reaction shots, but probably isn't going to be sniping cockpits. When the box meets the middle, he can fire a perfect snipe attack... at the rocks. Horray for him.

Whenever you move (either arms if arm-mounted or torso if torso-mounted), the big 'gauss box' expands to recalibrate. When the box is red, you cannot fire. When it's orange, you can fire, but accuracy is pretty bad. Yellow means good accuracy and can fire, and perfect accuracy is when the reticule is in the middle. Making slow movements or walking slowly will not disrupt the gauss box.

Tadah, gauss is now a sniping weapon.

I can't wait to hear the canned complaints about this one.

PS: And yes, autocannons are kind of sad. AC/20s aren't bad, but they're hard to justify. AC/10s and below are just... "why?"

Edited by Frostiken, 20 March 2013 - 10:32 PM.


#7 Corvus Antaka

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:17 AM

gauss has super long range and almost 0 heat.

the fragility is the drawback.

#8 captaincabbage

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:56 AM

View PostMaurdakar, on 20 March 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

Lasers can still do 1dmg at 2x range. Ballistics at 3x.
Most weapons have ranges of 0 ->

Ballistics require you dedicate tons too ammo, so you have a finite amount of shots. There is also projectile speed and drop to consider. Lasers are more precise, instant and a dot. So if you're skilled to

As to what you said, Gauss rifles has an equivalent tonnage to damage ratio but virtually zero heat buildup and an impressive range.

TLDR: Because video games.


you are my hero. Everything I was thinking, yet summed up so much more eloquently then I would have put it, bravo.

OP, as stated above, the reason ballistics are so effective is because they have finite ammunition. Hell, the gauss rifle only has 10 shots in an ammo pack.

Yes it sucks when my Gaussback gets ruined by a scout counter-attack with one well placed A-strike (due to my usual ping I'm rubbish at hitting scout mechs, so I go for heavier mechs), but hey, at least I can out range a bunch of other mechs, and that's the point of ballistics, my friend.

#9 Valdez Raptor

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 05:44 AM

View PostColonel Pada Vinson, on 21 March 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

gauss has super long range and almost 0 heat.

the fragility is the drawback.


My point would be to rebalance it so having it retardedly easy to break (3hp? You're kidding me right?) Longer re-load, make min range wider, ect. But to make it 3hp to the point it's more deadly to you than to others is a problem.

#10 Corvus Antaka

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 08:02 AM

View PostValdez Raptor, on 21 March 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:


My point would be to rebalance it so having it retardedly easy to break (3hp?  You're kidding me right?)  Longer re-load, make min range wider, ect.  But to make it 3hp to the point it's more deadly to you than to others is a problem.
put a CASE around it :rolleyes:

#11 Gevurah

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 08:17 AM

View PostValdez Raptor, on 21 March 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:


My point would be to rebalance it so having it retardedly easy to break (3hp? You're kidding me right?) Longer re-load, make min range wider, ect. But to make it 3hp to the point it's more deadly to you than to others is a problem.



You do realize running gauss is a tremendous liability for the person using it, right?

In the arms - you can't run CASE. When it blows, you *WILL* be taking torso damage.

In the torso - you *WILL* be taking torso damage, somewhat mitigated by case.

You have a weapon that has a high chance to be crit, has enough HP to be 1shot by a damn small laser, and does 200 damage to your mech when it explodes.

Forget running an XL engine, or you'll die.

Even if you run case, you still will lose half your mech to a component a light breeze breaks.

The range is the ONLY way to make a weapon like that viable.

*EDIT: ALL FOR THE LOW LOW PRICE OF 18 TONS JUST TO RUN A MEASLY 30 SHOTS*

Edited by Gevurah, 21 March 2013 - 08:18 AM.


#12 Deathlike

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 08:24 AM

When you are running a Gauss rifle, you are meant to be sniping, not brawling. Depending on where you put it on your mech the arms is safer IMO... the torso is good if you excel @ torso twisting.

If you are brawling with Gauss, you are doing it wrong.

While you are sniping and using the proper cover techniques, taking damage should be pretty minimal, so it honestly shouldn't be a problem in the right conditions.

Also, with how the Gauss rifle explodes, all you need to do is stuff the Gauss ammo in the slot you put the weapon in to use as a damage buffer. It is better to lose the ammo, than to use the weapon, but in the event you lose the weapon, your ammo is irrelevant .. and it's only the rifle that explodes and deals damage.

Generally speaking, I don't see this as much of a problem. If you're not being effective with the weapon, it simply becomes a liability.

There is a downsides to ballistics... for trading awesome heat and decent damage, you have to consume a lot of space (slots, tonnage, and ammo) to take advantage of it. The tradeoffs are there for every weapon, so it's a matter of figuring out what works and what doesn't for you.

Edited by Deathlike, 21 March 2013 - 08:27 AM.


#13 Faolan65

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 08:26 AM

@Frostiken: I like your idea, but I just want to know how there are 8 energy weapons on that k2?!?!?!

#14 Deathlike

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 08:30 AM

View PostFaolan65, on 21 March 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

@Frostiken: I like your idea, but I just want to know how there are 8 energy weapons on that k2?!?!?!


Looks like old pic, judging by the enemy/friendly base colors in the pic.

#15 Zyllos

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 08:53 AM

Wait, since when did the Gauss Rifle explode for 200 points of damage?

Shouldn't it be for 20 points of damage?

I am fine with the Gauss Rifle being fragile.

I personally think some of the ballistics need small buffs here and there:

Gauss Rifle > Increase projectile speed to match AC/2 (+700 m/s)
AC/2 > Decrease heat to 0.3 (-0.7)
LBX/10 > Decrease spray to allow full use of optimal range (but hitting multiple locations)
UAC/5 > Reduce jamming chance but increase range of jamming time by 2 fold -or- introduce a heat bar for the UAC/5 that allows the player to control how long he/she can fire the UAC/5 before jamming and decrease the cooldown to 0.85 (-0.25) (I suggest a bar that allows 10.0s of full autofire but for every 1.0s of fire, you would need 2.0s of cooldown to completely cool it down, if you hit maximum, this time is increased to 3.0s)

#16 Imagine Dragons

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:29 AM

Ammo explosion from 1 ton MG ammo > 1 GR detonation (chance) IIRC...

Seems right to me >__>

#17 Deathlike

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:36 AM

View PostZyllos, on 21 March 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Gauss Rifle > Increase projectile speed to match AC/2 (+700 m/s)


Matching it up with the PPC doesn't quite make sense (not that it can't, but I don't think it's balanced). Faster that an AC5/UAC5 is fine by me.

View PostXenomorphZZ, on 21 March 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

Ammo explosion from 1 ton MG ammo > 1 GR detonation (chance) IIRC...

Seems right to me >__>


With the ROF of ammo consumption of an MG (taking like 200 second to empty a ton), MGs ammo is a death trap of epic proportions.

Fortunately, noone in the right mind carries MGs to make that viable.

Edited by Deathlike, 21 March 2013 - 09:37 AM.


#18 Imagine Dragons

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:47 AM

View PostDeathlike, on 21 March 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:


Matching it up with the PPC doesn't quite make sense (not that it can't, but I don't think it's balanced). Faster that an AC5/UAC5 is fine by me.



With the ROF of ammo consumption of an MG (taking like 200 second to empty a ton), MGs ammo is a death trap of epic proportions.

Fortunately, noone in the right mind carries MGs to make that viable.



Uhh... err...

5N with 3 MGs and 2 ERPPCs?

Planning on taking out that expensive Jagermech and putting 6 MGs and 2 ERPPCs on it...

I'l see myself out...

#19 Crockdaddy

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:56 AM

If Gauss is so OP ... why don't we see their use everywhere all the time. We don't anymore. One of the prime reasons is because they "blow up easy". They weigh a lot .... and they "blow up easy". Did I mention gauss rifles "blow up easy Sure, you can still own with Gauss during a match, but I could say that with almost any weapon and a skilled pilot + plus a bit of luck.

#20 FireSlade

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:11 AM

A rebalance to the Gauss Rifle isn't a bad idea. 3hp for a weapon that can easily be destroyed and does additional damage to the mech sucks. It's already one of the heaviest weapons and almost has the least amount of ammo. You're better off using a AC/20 than Gauss Rifle, if you have the crit space, and you can use that extra ton for another ton of ammo. I'd keep the damage the same add more impulse hit seeing it's kinetic weapon. Also I was under the impression that heat was a result of the reactor having to produce more energy not the weapon making heat, so shouldn't the Gauss Rifle produce heat? Since it uses capacitors to provide the energy to fire the round, it should have a slight and slow increase, in heat, as the caps recharge. But I guess if they had the heat work like it would in the cannon(books) then they'd have to redesign the weapons and heat system; like make all ballistic weapons produce no heat except the Gauss Rifle. They can keep missiles the same since the heat can be the cause of the jet exhaust and energy weapons will still produce the most heat. The other thing is if they use "the capacitors exploding" excuse to keep the damage that the exploding Gauss Rifle causes, then energy weapons should do the same since they would all use capacitors, hence the need for a cycle time.





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