2 replies to this topic

[SteelShrike]

Bringing over the thread from here as a serious discussion/suggestion on improvements that could be made to the heat system in the game. While the thread title may be misleading, and the conversation could sometimes get, uh... heated, I feel like some productive discussion was still made out of it. http://mwomercs.com/...-from-the-game/

In short, here are my proposals and the reasons for doing so. First off, single heatsinks as they stand are weak. Incredibly weak. Stock designs utilizing them are basically crippled due to poor heat efficiency. It takes far too long for a stock Jenner to cool off its medium lasers for example to be effective and, perhaps more importantly, to be fun.

The second problem is single heatsinks versus double heatsinks. As it stands now, except in very rare and debatable circumstances, double heatsinks are hands down a superior upgrade to single heatsinks to the point that it's not even a choice or question over whether or not to upgrade. PGI knew this already when they first released double heatsinks to the game and restricted their heat dissipation to not be true "double" heatsinks. While this assured that the heatscale would still be a factor in gameplay, it still leaves the problem that single heatsinks are clearly ineffective. In fiction, this was fine, as according to the timeline, double heatsinks were still a rare commodity. But in MWO, where there's hardly an economy at all, this isn't a factor.

Even custom designing 'Mechs in the table-top game, there was practically no reason at all to not take double heatsinks. The free heatsinks offered within the engine made the upgrade a no-brainer almost every time, effectively doubling your standard capacity before even adding heatsinks that required additional tonnage or space. Only in especially small 'Mechs where all the stock heatsinks might not fit in the engine is it even a factor, and most of the time, you'll run out of tonnage before critical space before it becomes a problem.



Thus, I propose the following changes.

1. Decrease the efficiency of double heatsinks within the engine, perhaps even as low as standard heatsinks.
2. Buff double heatsinks mounted externally from the engine to be double the strength of single heatsinks, as the name suggests them to be.
3. Buff how quickly heat is dissipated across both single and double heatsinks to allow stock 'Mechs to have less downtime on the battlefield, and thus be more fun and engaging for people to play, and/or increase the heat scale to allow for more tolerance before shutdown.
4. More effects/penalties of high heat.

Double heatsinks will still be an advantage, but single heatsinks will no longer feel like a noose by which most stock designs are strangled by. Also, this will allow for a true choice to be made between double and single heatsinks, as the advantages between them will be solely and directly comparable to the space occupied by either.



This will be at least a step in the right direction I feel to more proper and engaging heat balance in the game. Further down the road, I'd also like to see additional features to the heat scale, such as increasingly sluggish movement speeds of the torso, arms, and walk/run speeds of the 'Mech the higher up on the heat scale one lingers. As it is now, heat only affects one thing: whether your 'Mech is powered on or off. One can ride the heat scale at 99% the whole battle and otherwise not suffer any disadvantages. With heat being such a core mechanic of MechWarrior games of the past and the MechWarrior universe in general, I'd love to see a more in-depth system in place to properly simulate the effects of heat on a BattleMech.

Thanks goes to Protection for bringing the topic up in the first place.

EDIT: Clarified meaning and idea behind points 2 and 3.

Edited by SteelShrike, 25 March 2013 - 02:20 AM.

[SteelShrike]

So, after giving this more thought and sleeping on it some, I think I've actually solved the problem of double heat sinks and why they're so powerful compared to single heat sinks.

The answer is actually simple. Heat sinks impact the heat scale in two ways. One, the increase the amount of heat your 'Mech can generate before it shuts down. Two, they increase the speed at which that heat is dissipated.

Essentially, you're getting double the benefit out of double heat sinks as you should. It should only be one or the other. If heatsinks only increase the maximum amount of heat your 'Mech can tolerate, the problem practically solves itself. A 'Mech at 30% heat will cool down at the same speed regardless of single or double heatsinks. However, it would take more sustained fire to reach that state, essentially making heat "spikes" gradually smaller the more heatsinks you add. This would also effectively simulate table-top rules, too, in how heatsinks basically prevent heat from building up every turn, rather than cause it to disperse faster.

That would also guarantee that, should the day come when additional heat penalties are added, DHS equipped BattleMechs won't escape their effects any faster than an SHS equipped 'Mech. They'll have to spend the same length of their "turn" under heat penalties. They will, however, be able to fire more shots before suffering those penalties.

Purely hypothetical circumstance just to illustrate the point. 'Mech A is equipped with single heatsinks and one PPC. 'Mech B is the same config, only with DHS. Both fire their PPCs. 'Mech A's heat scale registers at 10% capacity. 'Mech B registers at 5%. They each dissipate heat at 1% per second. While 'Mech A is still at a disadvantage to B, they are both cooling off at the same rate. If 'Mech B had a second PPC and fired both at the same time, both 'Mechs would be back at 0% heat at the same time.

Thus, DHS becomes less a factor of "how fast can I dissipate my heat," but a question of "how much heat does my build generate overall."

Whether DHS provides a perfect 2x benefit over single heatsinks in that regard, effectively allowing you to shoot twice as much before overheating, or 1.5x, or whatever, I think this would actually more than anything solve the perception that DHS are overpowered and in every way superior to SHS.

I admit, too, the idea needs more fine tuning. It's still not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction I feel. Essentially, I'm imagining DHS as a means of sustaining larger, more heat-generating weapons. But Lights, with their smaller weaponry, will find almost no advantage from using them more often than not.

Here's a better example. Say a 'Mech under standard heatsinks would cool off in 2 seconds. Its recycle time is 3. Using double heatsinks would provide no advantage then as the 'Mech will have already dissipated its excess heat before its ready to fire again.

Edited by SteelShrike, 25 March 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[Xerxys]

Again, look at the word choice. UPGRADE!!! Why would I upgrade to something when it's comparable to what I already have? In no way does this balance anything to do with heat. The heat system is broken, has been since early 1st closed beta. It has also been highly discussed, proven faulty and PGI doesn't give a ****! They implemented their own ******** system and nobody likes it except those running alpha strike builds. Splatcat, x6 ppc stalker, etc...

I've posted on this issue twice so far today, if you are interested in seeing it just dig b/c I don't know how to like the damned thing.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2130306

Best I could figure out so far. Hope it helps.

Edited by Xerxys, 26 March 2013 - 06:31 AM.