92 replies to this topic

[blinkin]

TLDR: players with lower Elo and/or cheaper mechs are rewarded more for damaging players with higher Elo and/or expensive mechs and players with high Elo and/or expensive mechs are rewarded less for damaging weaker opponents.


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i would like to bring back the thrill of the hunt in this game. before with repair and rearm there was a risk associated with running some of the more powerful mechs. that risk made the game much more appealing to me.

BUT

i do recognize that there are those out there who do not like RR. i don't agree, but this isn't just my game.

here is my potential solution:

Bounties
ok well not exactly, but this is the best word i could find to describe what i want.

any numbers listed should be tested and are only in place to express the general idea.

it has been mentioned before that we should combine ELO scores and mech stats when assembling teams. this idea is a sort of spin off from that.

• all players in a match would have a battle value
  
• these battle values would be listed at the beginning of the match and also with the target data upon locking a target
  
• their battle value would be a combination of their ELO and the total cbill value of their mech (trial mechs value would be reduced by a certain amount, 25% maybe)
  
• a multiplier would also be associated with being in a group
  
• this would be used for matching purposes to keep teams mostly balanced BUT NOT to seperate players into their own tiers.
  
• the battle value of the target would also provide a multiplier on xp and cbill awards
  
• all awards you earn would also be divided by your battle value
  
• BV would multiply any awards given to someone who shoots the player. targets with a high battle value would net more awards for players that damage them
  
• all awards would also be divided by your own personal BV. a player with a high battle value would earn less

yes i know battle value has another definition in table top, but i really don't care.


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if a player who just started today manages to beat me while i am in my 11,000,000cbill catapult with a trial mech then he deserves a hefty reward for that feat.

if i run around in my 11,000,000cbill catapult and brutalize new players who are in cheap mechs, then it should earn me much less money than a fair fight.

with this skilled players in expensive mechs become targets. this solves several balance issues.

• players would be encouraged to lower the value of their mech as much as possible if they wish to avoid being a target and earn more money. (players are awarded for running cheaper mechs)
  
• new players would be targetted much less, giving them more of a chance to get used to the game
  
• new players would be awarded much more for damaging or killing veterans or other players in more expensive mechs
  
• matches would tend to end with weaker mechs / pilots on the field giving new players a much better chance of scoring a kill
  
• players in groups would be awarded less for brutalizing unorganized enemies
  
• pugs would be awarded more for beating organized groups
  
• players are awarded more for beating more dangerous targets in general
  
• players who want a challenge can play much more expensive mechs to call out more enemies. (not really a balance issue, but something i would really like)
  
• pugs would naturally focus fire more
  
• we can stop nerfing all of the weapons down to different graphic effects for the same 4 DPS.

this would allow us to have many more unbalanced weapons, but the trade off is they are much more expensive. so you earn less money when using them and people will also target you more.


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people can continue to flood the field with SRM cats and assault mechs but they will have to work much harder to make money.

so here is the math that explains what would happen to your awards:

• (ELO) * (mech value modifier) * (group size modifier) = (battle value)
  
• (base award) * (battle value of target) / (your battle value) = (actual cbill and xp awards)

if you are not in a group then the group size modifier would simply be 1.

mech value modifier would be multiplied by 0.75 if the player is in a trial mech.


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also here are some other good suggestions to go along with this idea:

Redwood Elf, on 12 July 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

instead of having the value shown in the targetting data, how about just altering the color of the red arrows over enemy mechs based on the value relative to your own (Similar to the colored CON names in most MMOs:

Grey: Very weak relative to you. Very low rewards.
Green: significantly weaker than you, Low rewards.
Yellow: About your strength, Normal rewards.
Orange: A bit stronger than you, improved rewards.
Red: Very strong relative to you, excellent rewards.
Purple: Why are you even fighting this guy? He's gonna ROFLSTOMP you like a beer can. Highest rewards.

Prezimonto, on 20 August 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

Blinking pair this with Rolands Market based Battle Value system and think you have a total winner!

http://mwomercs.com/...e-value-system/

^^i don't like having a max battle value but the rest could work quite well with my system.

don't forget to vote, especially if you like it. vote = bump.

Edited by blinkin, 20 August 2013 - 10:56 PM.
Do, or do not! There is no maybe. Exchanged answer three

[Neolisk]

Very well thought, sounds like a good idea. I voted Yes.

[blinkin]

bump for some daylight

[blinkin]

bump again because the first one only worked for like 5 minutes

[Donas]

bump so I can find it and read it. Admittedly, I only made it throught the first paragraph before something came up and I had to ditch it, but if its anything like "the little guy gets more exp for punching the big guy in the nose than the big guy gets for stomping the little guy", I'm all in.

Edited by Donas, 07 April 2013 - 01:12 PM.

[blinkin]

Donas, on 07 April 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

bump so I can find it and read it. Admittedly, I only made it throught the first paragraph before something came up and I had to ditch it, but if its anything like "the little guy gets more exp for punching the big guy in the nose than the big guy gets for stomping the little guy", I'm all in.

that is pretty much the gist of it.

[Donas]

Right then. I'm voting yes.

[Cifrer]

I like the idea, but I do see one possible problem. Light mechs are cheap and fairly powerful. Yeah, dropping the XL engine into it makes it a bit more expensive, but still cheaper than your average heavy with the same XL in it.

I worry that such an idea would lead to an over-abundance of light mechs in the field.

[blinkin]

Cifrer, on 07 April 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

I like the idea, but I do see one possible problem. Light mechs are cheap and fairly powerful. Yeah, dropping the XL engine into it makes it a bit more expensive, but still cheaper than your average heavy with the same XL in it.

I worry that such an idea would lead to an over-abundance of light mechs in the field.

then we thin out the herds with medium mechs designed for hunting lights, but this was an issue i considered. currently the problem with light mechs is the series of bugs and exploits that tend to collect on those builds. lag shield has brought them back around to the point where they get to mostly ignore a direct hit from my 4x SRM6 on my catapult C4. most cases i tend to hurt assault mechs more than i do light mechs, even with solid hits on both.

BUT

when the light mechs are behaving properly within the system they are far harder to pilot than most any other mech. that is what this idea is built around. it would be almost impossible to account for every bug or exploit that pops up within the game, and i also think it would generally be a bad idea to try and design around these flaws. then when you manage to fix the core issues everything designed around them immediately breaks.

[Drunk Canuck]

Heh, a bounty system for people who grief other players, like aimbotters and people who instagib other members of your team before logging out or getting slaughtered by the rest of the team at the start of the match, would be ideal. That would be an awesome thing to add to the game and killing players who have a bounty put against them should yield extra rewards like more XP and say 50 MC.

Edited by Drunk Canuck, 07 April 2013 - 03:51 PM.

[blinkin]

Drunk Canuck, on 07 April 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

Heh, a bounty system for people who grief other players, like aimbotters and people who instagib other members of your team before logging out or getting slaughtered by the rest of the team at the start of the match, would be ideal. That would be an awesome thing to add to the game and killing players who have a bounty put against them should yield extra rewards like more XP and say 50 MC.

that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

[Deathlike]

I like the idea, but I don't think it solves some of the points as listed.

It doesn't make newbies "less targeted". Threat level of a target is determined by the target mech and by the pilot (yourself)... not necessarily from some arbitrary value.

[Gladewolf]

I like this idea, but Deathlike has a point. If this idea is combined with Comm. Warfare however, i think it can be a way to add depth to the game. One reason no single house was ever able to conquer the entire Inner Sphere was the economics. So if a team of 8 cheaply made, say 5 million a pop mechs are destroyed by a team that took more than 40 million in casualties.....is it really worth it? If you look at some of the machines out there(including slots) a Raven for instance, can be by far more expensive that a trial Atlas.

This could cause units to deliberatly select lower and lesser tech to conserve funds, or force them to shelve high tech machines when their faction is low on money.

[Garth Erlam]

Love it. I already have a giant target on me, now you all get to suffer equally! Bwahahahahaha!

[Victor Morson]

The one problem OP is bounties always get cheated: You get your friends to kill you, so they get the money. EVE was the biggest example.

The only way this might work is if it's implemented after community warfare, and you can only bounty people in hostile factions. But even then, what would happen is people would use bounties to transfer money, not actually use them right.

I love the system and maybe there's a clever way to avoid the pitfalls, but it's harder to implement than you might first consider.

[blinkin]

Victor Morson, on 08 April 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

The one problem OP is bounties always get cheated: You get your friends to kill you, so they get the money. EVE was the biggest example.

The only way this might work is if it's implemented after community warfare, and you can only bounty people in hostile factions. But even then, what would happen is people would use bounties to transfer money, not actually use them right.

I love the system and maybe there's a clever way to avoid the pitfalls, but it's harder to implement than you might first consider.

as stated in the OP "bounties" was merely the closest single word to what i wanted. having someone kill you will not help you in the long term unless they kill you enough to hurt your ELO significantly.

it is much more like a ranking system that effects your rewards and the rewards of those who target you, but the word bounties is sexier and attracts more attention.

[blinkin]

Deathlike, on 08 April 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

I like the idea, but I don't think it solves some of the points as listed.

It doesn't make newbies "less targeted". Threat level of a target is determined by the target mech and by the pilot (yourself)... not necessarily from some arbitrary value.

people tend to do things that will earn them more xp and/or cbills. this will reduce the xp and cbill value of attacking new players. that is the purpose of displaying these values at the beginning of the match and with targeting data. players will be encouraged to focus on big game more resulting in new players being focused on less.

new players will still be fired upon but you will get many more rewards for focusing on the veteran. you will want to focus on the high value mechs first because if you don't someone else will get those rewards instead of you.

[Deathlike]

Garth Erlam, on 08 April 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

Love it. I already have a giant target on me, now you all get to suffer equally! Bwahahahahaha!

Yes, but it won't be with MGs, which apparently is "balanced".

blinkin, on 08 April 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

people tend to do things that will earn them more xp and/or cbills. this will reduce the xp and cbill value of attacking new players. that is the purpose of displaying these values at the beginning of the match and with targeting data. players will be encouraged to focus on big game more resulting in new players being focused on less.

new players will still be fired upon but you will get many more rewards for focusing on the veteran. you will want to focus on the high value mechs first because if you don't someone else will get those rewards instead of you.

Not all high value targets are inherently equal. A Raven-3L is a significantly of higher value for me to kill vs the 6MG Jagermech. With BV (or whatever you come up with), there's a shot that these values might be similar and not entirely useful as pre-game info.

[blinkin]

Deathlike, on 08 April 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Not all high value targets are inherently equal. A Raven-3L is a significantly of higher value for me to kill vs the 6MG Jagermech. With BV (or whatever you come up with), there's a shot that these values might be similar and not entirely useful as pre-game info.

i won't claim this will fix everything. i am nowhere near that stupid. but i do think it will help with a lot of the issues, especially the holes left behind when repair and rearm was removed.

if we wait for a solution to come along that will fix every problem in one fell swoop, then we will be waiting for a very long time.

besides, odds are the raven 3L pilot has a much higher pilot score than the MG jager. so the pilot score will help to offset the mech price.

[Bobzilla]

Couldn't this idea work the other way? At the start of the match I can pick out the worst players in the cheapest mechs. With the weakest players gone, collect your extra rewards on that lone tricked out Cat, doesn't matter how good your bv/elo scores are when your support is gone. Then basically Pugs are what they are now, people running around attacking targets they think would be the best to take out first even tho opinons woud differ.