21 replies to this topic

[Cake Bandit]

People are talking about different models for success and other bullshit. I really can't suggest hard enough that we take a minute, breathe, and educate ourselves a little more about it.

Just give this a watch.

It's not an end-all talk on the subject, there's still a lot of discussion to be had about this new frontier in games, but just saying "this is bad" or "BAWW PAY TO WIN" or suggesting that we limit content from people who don't pay is getting us nowhere. We need to stop, breathe and have a real conversation about this. I feel like this is a pretty good place to start it.

These guys are making a game, yeah, and it's gonna' be accessible to anyone who wants to show up, but they're a business. They're here to make money, like it or not. Having a community this open, this early on has the potential to be a great boon so long as we don't pre-emptively push our kind developers away with incessant whining about THINGS THEY HAVEN'T EVEN CONFIRMED YET. So lets do something constructive with this forum and this opportunity to have our voices heard by the devs before we even really know anything about the game.

Let's not **** this up people.

Edited by Cake Bandit, 07 November 2011 - 02:55 PM.

[Suko]

I've never been part of a F2P game before, but the way I see it is this:

I would be willing to pay $10 - $15 a month if this was a traditional, subscription-based game.

Instead, I will now be spending $10 - $15 a month on items that will be offered for a price.

This way I (as an individual) don't have to worry about the F2P system making too 'unfair', as I will be one of those buying items times. Yet, I also don't see myself as compromising my morals, because I would be paying them money for a this gaming experience using the old subscription system anyway.

Edited by shadowvfx, 07 November 2011 - 02:50 PM.

[Cake Bandit]

shadowvfx, on 07 November 2011 - 02:48 PM, said:

I've never been part of a F2P game before, but the way I see it is this:

I would be willing to pay $10 - $15 a month if this was a traditional, subscription-based game.

Instead, I will now be spending $10 - $15 a month on items that will be offered for a price.

This way I (as an individual) don't have to worry about the F2P system making too 'unfair', as I will be one of those buying items times. Yet, I also don't see myself as compromising my morals, because I would be paying them money for a this gaming experience using the old subscription system anyway.

If you really want a crash course on free to play done RIGHT go over and play Team Fortress 2 for a while. They've got this on lockdown.

As for morals, what are you on about? They're putting the game out as a free to play game, they know what they're doing, they have the market data to tell them what's what. I applaud you for paying for it, I really do, it's going to make your game experience all the richer for doing so, but it's not like you're a better person for it.

Personally, I think the subscription model is the biggest lump of stupid bullshit ever to come down the pipe. Look at WoW, it's not good enough that you pay them for the game outright, but if you want to actually play it you have to shovel money into their furnace for months at a time. A straight subscription model is alright, but the minute you stop paying them for it you lose all forward progress and connection to anything you put your money towards, and I really can't imagine much incentive to come back and start again, or come back when you get some money back under you and be miles behind your friends on updates and equipment.

You watched the video in the opening post, right? Because it's kinda' the whole point of the thread.

[Sheogorath]

I can agree with the basic ideas of the vid, but it seems hard to pull off with a game like MWO. Granted it is too early to tell but I think I speak for many people when the idea of paying for anything gives me a bad feeling. That said, for all I know it could work out well in the end.

[Cake Bandit]

Sheogorath, on 07 November 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

seems hard to pull off with a game like MWO.

We don't actually know anything about the game. We need to slow down with statements like this.

I completely agree that paying makes people uneasy when the bulk of it is free, but the idea is to sell convenience, not features.

Edited by Cake Bandit, 07 November 2011 - 03:13 PM.

[Sheogorath]

Cake Bandit, on 07 November 2011 - 03:13 PM, said:

We don't actually know anything about the game. We need to slow down with statements like this.

I completely agree that paying makes people uneasy when the bulk of it is free, but the idea is to sell convenience, not features.

My point was more that since we dont know what to expect, I wasnt sure about how I should feel about any of this since it is nothing but speculation. As for selling convenience, I think that would be fine, as long as it is soley for the sake of expediency as opposed to purposly limiting ones options.

[AlanEsh]

shadowvfx, on 07 November 2011 - 02:48 PM, said:

I've never been part of a F2P game before, but the way I see it is this:

I would be willing to pay $10 - $15 a month if this was a traditional, subscription-based game.

Instead, I will now be spending $10 - $15 a month on items that will be offered for a price.

Good in theory, but my two experiences with F2P so far have shown that you pay about double a subscription price if you want to do much or progress with any speed.

If I like a game, I'll pay a monthly sub no problem, and I'll unsubscribe when I'm no longer enjoying the game. But if a game nickels and dimes me constantly to keep it enjoyable, then every login I feel like I'm getting milked, and I won't be staying long.

[Cake Bandit]

Angelicon, on 07 November 2011 - 03:23 PM, said:

Good in theory, but my two experiences with F2P so far have shown that you pay about double a subscription price if you want to do much or progress with any speed.

If I like a game, I'll pay a monthly sub no problem, and I'll unsubscribe when I'm no longer enjoying the game. But if a game nickels and dimes me constantly to keep it enjoyable, then every login I feel like I'm getting milked, and I won't be staying long.

World of Tanks and Spiral Knights?

Edited by Cake Bandit, 07 November 2011 - 03:27 PM.

[Bishop L]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I follow gaming news very closely. If your like me, you will have noticed a marked trend this year. A lot of "subscription" games went F2P this year. A couple of the big ones are DCOnline and City of Heroes. The market is saturated with online gaming. Granted this one is going to be different MMOS instead of a MMORPG. But would that really be enough of a draw to bring in people?

By making this F2P they insure a large number of people are going to DL for no other reason than to see what it's like, a lot of those people will probably be casual palyers for a bit and then fade away. The rest of them will realize the smell of cracked armor and burning myomer is mothers milk to them and will be online regularly. Theyin turn wil tell any of their friends who don't know about it what it is all about and we'll gain more Mechwarriors to fill out this universe we all love so much.

F2P will work. I have many good experiences with F2P. I have a couple of great experiences with F2P. I am all for it. I have already started digging into the past in an attempt to find all of my old lancemates. I would not let them miss out on this chance for all the C-Bills in the FedCom treasury.

[Bansheedragon75]

I have nothing against the F2P model, and the RMT in general, they need to generate money for upkeep and new content somehow after all.
What concerns me is the "Pay To Win" discussion.
I have played games that use the F2P model and you can buy items for RL money.

The most recent of those is LOTRO, they started out by saying that the things you can buy for RL money will be mostly cosmetics and some convenience.
Convenience means you can get items for RL money which you could get through regular gameplay as well, but does not give an advantage over others.
They also clearly stated that the "Game Shop" would never sell items that would give you an advantage, yet look what happened with the latest expansion, they did start selling items, available in the ingame store only for RL money, that would give a significant advantage over others in some aspects of the game.

And this is the issue that concerns me, that we will end up with being able to buy items with real money, that will give those who have to funds to buy these items, and advantage over those who dont have said funds.
This in turn will make those less fortunate frustrated to the point where they may decide to leave and not come back, because those with the resources to buy these items will be or feel almost unbeatable to those who cant buy said items.

Simply put, I'm not saying F2P with RMT is a bad thing, it just have to be very carefully balanced so as to not only cater to those with deep pockets, and making the less fortunate feel as if they are being stepped on.

[Cake Bandit]

Yeah, the video talks about that, the big answer to that is "Dont divide your playerbase for any reason, be it equipment gap, playable content, nothing." Keep people playing, and having fun, together, and eventually they're going to want to give you their money anyway.

Edited by Cake Bandit, 07 November 2011 - 04:19 PM.

[Cake Bandit]

Yeah, I think they're trying to appeal to a younger audience with some of that.

[Cake Bandit]

I wish I could just sticky this video up top and force everyone to watch it. Including the devs. Maybe especially the devs.

[Russ Bullock]

Sheogorath, on 07 November 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

Granted it is too early to tell but I think I speak for many people when the idea of paying for anything gives me a bad feeling.

Tough to make a game if you dont want to pay for anything.

Anyhow I watched the video and thought it was great.

[Cake Bandit]

Russ Bullock, on 07 November 2011 - 05:16 PM, said:

Tough to make a game if you dont want to pay for anything.

Anyhow I watched the video and thought it was great.

I suddenly have nothing but confidence in this game.

[Delta Ice]

From what I have seen from this so far I like the idea of the micro transactions. WoT has a good model however when I bought 2 months of premium I had my computer go down 3 weeks into it for 3 weeks and that time I couldn't get back. Having the idea of buying items is to me much better as if I have this issue again I won't "lose" time.

[Alistair Steiner]

Aegis Kleais™, on 07 November 2011 - 05:28 PM, said:

Good to hear.

Also, if not paying for a game that's worth playing is the majority, then I'm proud to be in the minority.

I would personally feel dirty if I got a game that I enjoyed for free; I'll gladly send the developer money to show my thanks.

Right alongside you, buddy. I seriously hope a price/item list comes out fairly soon so I can start deciding what I want to buy, when I want to buy it, and what I'll just work to earn in-game. Set aside a MWO fund, ya know?

EDIT: Also, excellent vid, OP, and great to get such a timely staff response. These guys are great.

Edited by Alistair Steiner, 07 November 2011 - 05:44 PM.

[Tsen Shang]

Sheogorath, on 07 November 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

Granted it is too early to tell but I think I speak for many people when the idea of paying for anything gives me a bad feeling.

I hope you speak for absolutely no one else. If I play a good game for no cost whatsoever and I spend hours playing it, then I gladly purchase things I don't want just to support the studio. I don't give a **** about character skins from League of Legends, but I bought a few just to say thanks for the hours and hours and hours of fun I had with my friends playing it...FOR FREE (well, not anymore).

Aegis Kleais™, on 07 November 2011 - 05:28 PM, said:

Also, if not paying for a game that's worth playing is the majority, then I'm proud to be in the minority.

I would personally feel dirty if I got a game that I enjoyed for free; I'll gladly send the developer money to show my thanks.

Alistair Steiner, on 07 November 2011 - 05:42 PM, said:

Right alongside you, buddy. I seriously hope a price/item list comes out fairly soon so I can start deciding what I want to buy, when I want to buy it, and what I'll just work to earn in-game. Set aside a MWO fund, ya know?

YES! I'm grateful to have other people around that feel the same way I do. I've been waiting for a Mechwarrior game for a long time. My buddies and I are already gearing up to buy STUFF in this game. I don't care what it is. Paint jobs, new mechs, single player campaigns, insignias, etc. You name it, I'll probably buy it in support of this game.

Aegis Kleais™, on 07 November 2011 - 04:22 PM, said:

Too. Many. Damned. Memes.

Ya gotta settle down with this, my friend. Not good for your blood pressure. Besides, how do you know all these memes anyway? Self inflicted injuries?

Edit: Used absolutely too many times. Must've gotten excited.

Edited by Tsen Shang, 07 November 2011 - 06:10 PM.

[Black Sunder]

I agree with everything in the video.

Also happy to see a dev posted.

[Alistair Steiner]

Tsen Shang, on 07 November 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:

My buddies and I are already gearing up to buy STUFF in this game. I don't care what it is. Paint jobs, new mechs, single player campaigns, insignias, etc. You name it, I'll probably buy it in support of this game.

Well, until we get the list I'm hoping for, I'll go with that attitude. I'll buy STUFF. Rock on, MechWarrior.