46 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

So I was thinking about the Hunchback-4G from another thread, and it's a bit disappointing how inferior it is to the other hunchbacks (to me).
When was the last time you saw someone using more than 1 of the ballistic slots (other than MGs, we all know they're only there for the awesome visuals and sounds)?
If someone's just using 1 ballistic, wouldn't the 4H be better due to having a smaller hunch, plus extra energy hardpoints?

So here's a poll on how you'd like (or not like) to see the 4G buffed when PGI does their variant "quirk" pass on the hunchback chassis.

There's also a question for if you'd like to see a non-quirk buff applied.

Personally I'd like to see it get more energy on the arms. The SP gets 2 missiles, 4 arm lasers, and the head laser, on top of having no "hunch" to shoot off. If the G got 4 arm lasers, plus the (mostly useless) 3 ballistics in the single torso and head laser, I don't think it would be overpowered.

[FiveDigits]

I don't think there's much that can be done for the 4G.
Quirk buffs (accel, decel, twist speed) would have only marginal effect.
More hard points and / or a larger engine limit wouldn't really do much. The 4G's main feature is the AC20 which is so heavy that there's no room for a bigger engine or more weapons.
A damage reduction for the hunch has no basis. It would be an exception to the rules I'd rather not see in game.

[OpCentar]

In order to bring his big ballistics to bear the best thing would be to - increase his torso elevation/declination.

The rest is OK.

[MustrumRidcully]

Give it +10-20 % damage reduction on that Hunch (for 4G, 4P and 4J at least). That's not the kind of quirks we had so far, but it should work neatly.

I might also give the 4H and 4SP all the other half that damage reduction, but on both side torsos. Or bonus ammo on ammo stored in the other torso.
Of coruse I have no idea the latter would be possible. (Damage reduction is already in the game via the missile bay doors, so that should be doable)

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 10 April 2013 - 02:02 AM.

[Crimson Fenris]

Stuffed with an AC/20, my 4G is for the moment the most efficient of my Hunchies. You only have to put most of the armor on the right torso front, since the RT back is very small hitbox.
And with a bit of torso twist, it's manageable to spare some hits off your precious (and huge) right torso.

I sincerely agree with the statement that with available tonnage, efficient use of the 3 ballistic slots is currently impossible, apart stuffing with the most powerful ballistic.
Tonnage of ACs made all mediums and light chassis struggle with multiple ballistic slots, unless they reduce tonnage of AC's, or increase MG's efficiency (that likely will not happens in either case...).

It may be a good idea to switch 2 ballistics to energy slots in the arms, but in that case you made only 1 or 2 playable builds, like now in fact ^^.
If AC/2 were only 4-5 tons each, AC/5 6-7 tons and AC/10 8-9 tons each, there will be more configurations available. You can gain more DPS, in exchange of a much higher heat, for same comparative tonnage.


The others viable option will be either :
- 3 AC/2, but 4 tons more than AC/20, without speaking about horrible heat generation and need for more ammo tonnage...
- 2 AC/5, 2 tons more only, still not using the 3 slots.
- 2 UAC/5, 4 tons more, same problem and need for more ammo (plus jamming chance, less reliable).

but 4 tons, even 2, are very hard to find on a 50 tons mech, without fitting a XL engine (wich is likely suicidal for hunchbacks and centurions...)

[The Mech behind you]

The problem with the 4G as I see them are
1. the 4H is about the same but better. 2 more Energy slots.
2. you lose the side torso with the Gun pretty fast because it's a priority target and a HUGE one you can't miss it. Leaving you with 1 or 2 Medium Lasers after your second or third AC 20 shot.

[Khanublikhan]

Perhaps the hit points of the AC/20 could be raised slightly, so it is not destroyed so quickly?

[Product9]

I do alright with the 4G. I wish it had four lasers on the arms like the SP, but I guess that wouldn't be canon or whatever.

It's a good mech so long as you're smart with it. Know that your hunch is a valuable asset and protect it as such. IMO the worst problem is the poor hit registration for autocannons. I don't like shooting at a light mech, seeing the round nail him, only to have it not register...

Basically, just remember it's not an assault mech and you'll be okay.

Edited by Product9, 10 April 2013 - 02:30 AM.

[The Mech behind you]

Khanublikhan, on 10 April 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

Perhaps the hit points of the AC/20 could be raised slightly, so it is not destroyed so quickly?

it's already buffed to 18 Hitpoints. And regarding all the dual AC 20 Mechs in the field I don't want the AC 20 to be even stronger

Edited by Norman Kosh, 10 April 2013 - 02:31 AM.

[FiveDigits]

The AC20 could have 1000 hit points. You would still lose it promptly because the entire side torso housing it gets destroyed very quickly.

[Khanublikhan]

Norman Kosh, on 10 April 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

it's already buffed to 18 Hitpoints. And regarding all the dual AC 20 Mechs in the field I don't want the AC 20 to be even stronger

18 hit points eh? That is higher than I thought.

Hunchbacks have excellent torso twist. Perhaps it is an education / training thing. You know, educating players on whether it is best to flank right or flank left and use that torso twist to (try) keep that hunch out of view some.

[Pale Jackal]

How about buffing machine guns so the other 2 ballistic slots aren't useless?

[FunkyFritter]

It has the same issue every other mech with excessive ballistic hardpoints has. I'd much rather see viable small balistic options than address every variant that needs them individually. Buffing the Hunchback-4G isn't going to do the Spider-5K any good.

[Onmyoudo]

Seems like most chassis have a dud variant. As much as the 4G (and 4P for that matter) would benefit from a sturdier Hunch, having a variant that just isn't as good as a couple of the others is pretty much always going to be the case. At least several of the Hunchbacks are viable, unlike some other chassis, like any Raven that's not a 3L for example.

[Le Goat]

it needs to have more armor for the gun torso or a slightly smaller hitbox.

[Yokaiko]

FiveDigits, on 10 April 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

I don't think there's much that can be done for the 4G.
Quirk buffs (accel, decel, twist speed) would have only marginal effect.
More hard points and / or a larger engine limit wouldn't really do much. The 4G's main feature is the AC20 which is so heavy that there's no room for a bigger engine or more weapons.
A damage reduction for the hunch has no basis. It would be an exception to the rules I'd rather not see in game.

You can get a 250 standard on with the AC20 and either a pair of mediums or three smalls.

[GODzillaGSPB]

The 4G is often compared to the 4H, which can carry the same and more. And that's where the problems started. I carried "more" and the thing I found out is that it runs worse. More lasers, more heat, less HE, less firing. You can work against it by adding small lasers in the mix, but in the end you loose range, get slighty more damage and are still running hotter.

The perfect Hunchback 4G/4H has one ballistic weapon and three lasers and more is just wasted. The three ballistics on the 4G are also wasted.

[Belorion]

I don't think they will be adding hard points at this stage of the game...

Its all about finding a load out that works for the mech. I don't dislike the default loadout, but the 4H makes a better 4G than the 4G.

What I finally settled on is a guass + ppc. While it can be replicated with the 4H, it can't be done any better so its all good.

[Josef Nader]

More manuverability in the form of acceleration and turn rate would be nice. What I'd really like to see would be an increased RoF for the AC20 on the 4G. Maybe all ballistics, but the AC20 specifically.

[Belorion]

GODzillaGSPB, on 10 April 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

The 4G is often compared to the 4H, which can carry the same and more. And that's where the problems started. I carried "more" and the thing I found out is that it runs worse.

You still have the option of 3 lasers + tag with the 4H.