28 replies to this topic

[VoltarDark]

Hello folks;

After some discussion with my friends, we conclude that :

We need to see more Lrm support mechs and that some mech's variant need better srm damage to be useful. Streak will need a change to do less damage to bigger mechs.

For a single :
LRM : From 0,7 to 1 so a Lrm 20 will do 20 damage but reduce splash radius 20%.
SRM : From 1,5 to 2 so a Srm 6 will do 12 damage but reduce splash radius 20%.
SSRM : From 1,5 to 2 so a Ssrm 2 will do 4 damage but reduce splash radius 35%.


What do you think ?

See you in game.

[Team Leader]

Or how about no splash damage at all? Why do we even need it? It's not fair to do extra damage. However I agree with the damages. If they just did their SET damage wherever they hit, and only where they hit, we wouldn't have a problem.

Edited by Team Leader, 10 April 2013 - 02:14 PM.

[Tezcatli]

Team Leader, on 10 April 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Or how about no splash damage at all? Why do we even need it? It's not fair to do extra damage. However I agree with the damages. If they just did their SET damage wherever they hit, and only where they hit, we wouldn't have a problem.

The idea with splash. I think is so they are "Support" and not delivering the knock out punch. With its pealing multiple areas of armor away, it softens up a target, but takes longer to outright destroy. It makes sense and works relatively well in my opinion. But they could use a buff in how fast they travel to ensure greater hit chance.

So I would say nay to the changes. Maybe a slight tweak to damage. But more in the reliable hit on targets in open terrain.

Edited by Tezcatli, 10 April 2013 - 02:25 PM.

[PaintedWolf]

The problem is they do not benefit from convergence like other weapons and other weapons have their TT values. Right now, not only do they not have the benefit of convergence, they do LESS damage then they do in TT. They also do not benefit from alternative ammo types and critical hits or pilot knock out---which is the main reason you use missiles in Table Top.

[Mild Monkey]

Up the damage of LRMs by 0,1, up the flight speed by 15-20 percent (I never use LRMs but I don't even care to dodge them since the hotfix).

As for the SSRMs: Damage is fine with me but its annoying that they always home in on the target's CT. Either reduce their flight time to 0,5-0,8 seconds or let them randomly hit locations of the target, also the insane spiral of death needs to be addressed (when the missiles fly around a mech for 4-5 seconds because a hit must be guaranteed).

[Khell DarkWolf]

Up LRM damage to 1.4.

Play with that for awhile so we can test its viability in the combat scene.

I don't know what to think on splash damage, but in other aspects for LRMs.

You can't really use it for anything pre or post damage changes in firing them out past 500 meters because of how slow they are. But that was one of the things that kept them in check, it gave the others warning that they were coming.

We give them a projectile speed buff, then everyone will cry that they cannot dodge them like long range streaks.

[ElLocoMarko]

Team Leader, on 10 April 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Or how about no splash damage at all? Why do we even need it? It's not fair to do extra damage. However I agree with the damages. If they just did their SET damage wherever they hit, and only where they hit, we wouldn't have a problem.

Around mid-March they said that splash damage was going to be removed in the Apr. 2 patch. It didn't happen. We can only guess, but judging from PGI chatter, they were going to do it, but it probably revealed some other badness... I can't search or provide links (forum borked) but if memory serves "too many missiles hit the CT" was stated by one of the PGI's.

I've gotten killed through the back armor by a barrage of LRM that I took right on my chest. I've twisted to take it on the arm and have them mystically yellow the arm and orange the CT.

It is a difficult line they walk. The missiles have to fly in a semi-realistic manner and then do damage to the body parts they appear to be hitting without being overly concentrated.

Edited by ElLocoMarko, 10 April 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[darkfall13]

Tezcatli, on 10 April 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

The idea with splash. I think is so they are "Support" and not delivering the knock out punch. With its pealing multiple areas of armor away, it softens up a target, but takes longer to outright destroy. It makes sense and works relatively well in my opinion. But they could use a buff in how fast they travel to ensure greater hit chance.

So I would say nay to the changes. Maybe a slight tweak to damage. But more in the reliable hit on targets in open terrain.

That's the exact reason they don't work. If a missile hits the cockpit and another just outside the cockpit in the CT they each damage both the cockpit AND the CT.

[Scratx]

The damage reduction is a temporary fix. Splash damage is indeed borked to hell and missiles were sometimes doing 7+x the damage they should've been doing.

The reason they chose to do this instead of removing splash entirely is because they tried that... and realised the missile hits were biased towards the CT. A situation splash damage was actually masking.

They'll rebalance missiles when they have a proper fix done.

[hashinshin]

splash damage is so LRMs are used as a support weapon to splash damage over every component, rather than be used to kill people in mere moments of direct fire.

[Noobzorz]

SRMs don't need a buff. They still trash people. My D-DC is no longer a "hug me and die" machine, but it is still a tremendous brawler, and I carve through AC/20 Jaegers like a sledgehammer through butter.

As for LRMs, I'd much rather we didn't go back to LRM brawlers being top dog. Just make them a whole lot faster so they can hit distance targets a little more reliably. My ideal vision (I've mentioned this before) is that the speed scales to the distance so that volleys always hit in about the same time. Keeping them at 14 damage, they would be effective but not overpowering.

Edited by Noobzorz, 10 April 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[VoltarDark]

The problem is without any missiles buffs, we see nearly always the same mechs on the field... making 3/4 of our mech bay closet for unused mech... We need more useful way to kill. We now see a lot more assault and heavies then we should.
Game becoming rather dull. We need more balance in our weapon systems. PGI must be careful not to alter the game so only ac20, Erppc and Gauss are winners and now they are... We want to play with all our mechs without gimping our team.

[Conraire]

I think they're going to eventually up the dmg for LRMs and SRM's back to normal. Some issues I remember being mentioned about whats going on with them..

The major one with LRM's, and the reason why they lowered the damage. Is if they're only doing direct damage, they currently ONLY hit center torso. So, if they did only direct damage, with their previous 1.4dmg per missile value, they would be VERY overpowered. Light mechs would be cored with 1 volley. And for the short time when missiles were bugged, even assaults and heavies were being cored within 2 or 3 volleys. This also why you see mechs only taking torso damage for most part when getting hit by LRMs, unless of course they turn and use a shield arm or dodge behind a building. If they were working like they should from TT, they'd home in on random parts of the mech, with a 60~% hit rate, and do direct dmg. But, since I get the impression it's more difficult to do that, it may not happen.

The current problem with SRM's probably has to do with the tighter grouping pattern of Artemis equipped SRM's. I know on my AWS-8R with 2xSRM6 and 2xSRM4 with Artemis, I can still tear up light mechs who decide to run at me head on with a couple volleys, even most mediums and some heavies. Where as the non art launchers I have still scatter like they should. Though before the recent pattern fix, artemis was a waste.

And SSRM's have the same issue as LRMs. They're only hitting CT. Where by canon, they should be hitting anywhere on the mech. Just with a 100% hit rate unless they hit an obstacle. I see it as an issue, because it needs to be fixed before SSRM 4 and 6's come in with clan tech. Otherwise they were be major issues.

[Erasus Magnus]

Tezcatli, on 10 April 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

The idea with splash. I think is so they are "Support" and not delivering the knock out punch. With its pealing multiple areas of armor away, it softens up a target, but takes longer to outright destroy. It makes sense and works relatively well in my opinion. But they could use a buff in how fast they travel to ensure greater hit chance.

So I would say nay to the changes. Maybe a slight tweak to damage. But more in the reliable hit on targets in open terrain.

the problem here is that splash damage doenst work correctly. when iam getting hit by a streak srm in the back, the splash reaches my front torso as well, which makes this weapon awfully good at coring light armored mechs, because the damage registers all around. and mechs like spiders are very narrow, so a lot of damage registeres through all torso areas. even if the streaks hit one arm, the damage seems to flow directly into the center torso armor.

i also agree to the reply above mine.

Edited by Erasus Magnus, 11 April 2013 - 12:15 AM.

[Profiteer]

VoltarDark, on 10 April 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

LRM : From 0,7 to 1 so a Lrm 20 will do 20 damage but reduce splash radius 20%.
SRM : From 1,5 to 2 so a Srm 6 will do 12 damage but reduce splash radius 20%.
SSRM : From 1,5 to 2 so a Ssrm 2 will do 4 damage but reduce splash radius 35%.

2 for SRMs and streaks is too much. 1.5 is ok, 1.75 would be max.

LRMS could go to .8-.9.

I got caught in the open the other night in my stalker and took a fully volley of LRMs - my CT armor went orange.

I run with a guy who uses an LRM boat. He's almost always in the top 3 and averages 500+ damage. They are still very effective if used right.

People are just conditioned to missiles doing crazy damage; they are now far more inline with lasers and ballistics.

Edited by Profiteer, 11 April 2013 - 12:13 AM.

[DerSpecht]

What is this thread good for when PGI states that the LRM nerf is temporary?

[Mild Monkey]

DerSpecht, on 11 April 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

What is this thread good for when PGI states that the LRM nerf is temporary?

It's good because "the North remembers" and temporary might mean "until tomorrow" or "in a year or two". Same as with the "collisions will be back, it's temporary" announcement. I don't blame PGI, they have a lot on their plate but there's room for civilized reminders.

[Corwin Vickers]

Why would streaks do less damage against heavy mechs? I think that streaks are not a big deal to heavier mechs but are still a big deal to light mechs where their CT homing really cores the light mechs out pretty fast.

[Karl Streiger]

Virtually the SSRM does more damage as any other missile system because of the 100% to hit chance.
SSRM were designed as ammunition efficient weapon.
So what about reducing damage of SSRM towards 1.3 but keep splash damage as it is actual. On the other hand give SSRM more shots per ton. Lets say 120 shots per ton.

The LRM need indeed a buff. Two ways here: more speed for the missiles OR a damage increase towards 1 or 1.1 per impact and keep splash damage.

However:
I would like to know how the OP got his figures...

[Joseph Mallan]

SRMs could use going back to table top damage(2 per missile) and why LRMs were dropped below 1.0 is just boggling. IF splash damage was like this;

Main body of missiles hit diameter #1 Small diameter and then the rest hit in diameter #2(excluding diameter #1) or miss. OR cone of fire, missiles are hitting the target in a large diameter so some miss but the rest splash the whole Mech, That is how I have seen(imagined) Missiles working for the decades I have played TT and the other video games.