11 replies to this topic

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

Narc doesn't get much use right now. It is cancelled out by ECM, has a short range, doesn't last very long, and the first successful LRM volley hitting the target destroys the NARC beacon. It offers no meaningful benefit over using Artemis IV, for a lot more drawbacks.

Instead, the NARC beacon should be a Counter-ECM weapon. Something that teams can use that counteracts ECM and restore target sharing.

When a Mech is hit by a Narc Beacon:

• The Narc beacon lasts for two minutes and is not removed if the mech takes damage.
  
• If an Enemy mech has Line of Sight on the Narced mech; The Narced mech is visible on enemy radar despite any ECM coverage. The Narced mech is visible on enemy radar through multiple overlapping ECM fields.
  
• When the Narced Mech breaks line of sight with all enemy units, its target signature remains for an additional 5 seconds, similar to the Advanced Target Decay module. This effect stacks with Advanced Target Decay.
  
• The Narc Launcher has 9 shots per ton; This may need to be increased when the game goes to 12 v 12.
  
• The Narc Beacon is automatically destroyed if the Narced Mech is hit by PPC fire.
  
• NARC does not confer any bonuses to missiles, lock-on times, or missile pattern. It ONLY provides targeting data.

This feature set allows a scout to act as a NARC platform to provide targeting data to friendly units, and allows players to actively counter-act an ECM heavy team. However, the benefits it provides against a team that is lacking ECM are minimal.



Finally, a Team can terminate a Narc beacon by striking a friendly mech with PPC fire, any team using NARC must use teamwork to refrain from using PPCs on the NARC mech.

This design creates a Rock/Paper/Scissors mechanic between ECM, NARC, and PPCs. Teams will be forced to make conscious decisions about which weapons they want to use, and when.

Edit: Added a poll in order to conform with Forum Rules.

Edited by Eldragon, 19 April 2013 - 10:38 AM.

[Hobietime]

I would perhaps tone down the duration and survivability of the NARC after it has made contact, but I definitely agree with the overall suggestion.

Good idea,

Hobie

[General Taskeen]

I do not agree with parts of that.

The NARC should made into the powerful TT equipment it was for 3 tons. It allowed missiles to SEEK the beacon. From TT, it meant more accuracy. In REAL-time terms, it should be equivalent of missiles auto-seeking the beacon.

Thus, NARC is countered by ECM due to this function. It is missing this function in MWO. Right now, NARC is worthless due to this.

The canon description is that this function worked with both regular SRM systems and LRM's. There is also an additional rule that if a Mech pilot wants their SRM or LRM missiles to seek NARC beacons, they must upgrade the ammunition to get that additional function of NARC. Both of these are non-existing in MWO.

For examples of how other games did this, please view the following material:

First Example - NARC Fires - SRM can now 'lock' onto target - SRM Missile tracks towards target like an SSRM


Second Example - NARC Fires - LRM Missile Auto-Seeks Beacon without pilot needing to aim at the target (Dumb-Fire missiles autoseeking nearest NARC beacon, otherwise directly targeting with LRM's the 'seek' function will ignore 'nearest beacon')

(Go to 9:00)

- Both games even had the ability for the NARC missile itself to have limited tracking towards target, allowing ease of use, and less wasted missiles

• Depending on the power of the missiles and other balance measures, the beacon should last 30-60 seconds, and make the target visible on radar. The ECM does not shut off the beacon, but temporarily clouds its affects. If ECM moves away before 30-60 seconds is up, the beacon is still active
  
• PPC friendly/enemy fire shuts off beacon permanently, new beacon must be attached
  
• SRM and LRM functionality as per video
  
• In order for seeking features, ammo must be upgraded (the cost is twice as much as the base price, as per the rules)

How amazing would it be if NARC was actually worth the 3 tons and could do all these multi-functional things it is supposed to do?

Edited by General Taskeen, 18 April 2013 - 09:10 AM.

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

General Taskeen, on 18 April 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

.. words ...

The current implementation of NARC is not far off from what you have described. Expanding on the current NARC behavior does not add depth to gameplay, it only increases the "All or Nothing" environment that currently exists with ECM. Don't get me wrong, I like how NARC worked in MW:Living Legends, but I don't think it has a place in MW:O.

If Narc as it currently function is buffed as you describe, I suspect players would only be encouraged to rely on ECM more than they already do. More players huddling under an ECM bubble, more all ECM teams.

Because ECM works nothing like it does in table top, the other TT equipment that ECM was intended to counter need to be reworked in order to make the viable. In Table Top and other MW titles Narc is a great missile guidance/tracking system, ECM exists to counter that equipment, However in MWO ECM exists to prevent targeting completely. Keeping your team hidden from enemy radar is far more useful than anything it did in Table Top.

In MWO, ECM is not a counter-measure to advanced missile/targeting platforms, ECM is the advanced technology that must be countered. Their metagame roles have been reversed.

Thus, NARC's role should be changed from a missile targeting assist platform to a counter-ECM platform.

Edited by Eldragon, 19 April 2013 - 10:28 AM.

[Bobzilla]

Yes, and i'd like to mention the fact that it would still be underpowered compaired to ECM, with 4 tons, taking a weapon slot, not lasting forever, and needing to aim and shoot it as appose to just always being on, and less of a range.

It would definately make Narc a must have for scouts, and scouting more viable.

[Hammerfinn]

I agree with the idea, the numbers probably need tweaking a bit.

[Deathlike]

I like some of the ideas about NARC, but having NARC being used as an ECM tracking beacon would be best IMO.. and TAG being used as the tool to cut through ECM when missiles are involved.

Rather than having NARC be completely useless, they should be used as putting ECM and non-ECM mechs on radar, but ECM mechs will have to be targeted by TAG.. they would then complement each other.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

I would like to see the Narc missile become an auto locking element similar to the streaks. Cutting through the ECM units cover, locking, and launching will take precious extra time and requires the targeting Mech to have clear line of site to the target for the launch.

The short range of 270 mtrs that the game now has does not cover the weight and risk of closing to launch this dismally weak "target lock assist" item. If the lock on and launch distance were increased to similar ranges of MW:LL (900mtrs) or at least the range of the current "Tag" laser (750mtrs) we would probably see it being used more.
[Currently it is a dumb fire missile that can easily miss at the range of 270mtrs, no guidance inherent within the missile. (yes I understand that it requires skill to use this item and should only be employed by precision pilots) If it truly is to be an ECM blocking element then it should have a target locking system.]

I am sure the Dev's can see how often it is being employed or not, and understand we want to use this item but it is currently under ranged and under powered. If it was buffed or brought more in line to the MW:LL profile you would see lights employ this weapon support system more, and use it as an assist for there fellow lance pilots. The additional slots, weight, and ammo would then be a bonus for the mech pilot to have on board.

I do like the Vid's from MW:LL showing the lock on time, the missile target seeking flight, and the broadcast indication on the map. Even the Sound of the target lock tone before an LRM launch, which is different from the normal target lock.
(As a note; you did see in the Vid's that you could "toggle off" your search radar systems and minimize you signature! Another option that should be looked into. Yes you lose your scan abilities but now you become a stealthier hunter, maybe even include the "beagle probe" to buff this option?)

I have played MW:LL and used the Narc, it is a dangerous asset for your enemy to carry and normally indicated hunting that unit down to eliminate the "global targeting" option that it posed, or staying away from it. Either way it added elements of tactics to the game. And by the way it was not doom and gloom if you were targeted by a Narc, you did have to disengage "right now" and seek cover. (good tactics for your enemy even if there were no incoming missiles, you couldn't run the risk of staying "engaged")

I am looking forward to PGI's enhancing the Narc missile and it's features.

Later,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 01 May 2013 - 05:13 PM.

[FrostCollar]

Back up: NARC having no bonuses to missiles whatsoever? I can't say yes to that. These counter ECM effects should be in addition to the current effects, not implemented instead of them.

[Deathlike]

NARC should have bonuses to missiles when no ECM is around... that's pretty much the reason for their existence...

[FireSlade]

General Taskeen, on 18 April 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

I do not agree with parts of that.

The NARC should made into the powerful TT equipment it was for 3 tons. It allowed missiles to SEEK the beacon. From TT, it meant more accuracy. In REAL-time terms, it should be equivalent of missiles auto-seeking the beacon.

Thus, NARC is countered by ECM due to this function. It is missing this function in MWO. Right now, NARC is worthless due to this.

The canon description is that this function worked with both regular SRM systems and LRM's. There is also an additional rule that if a Mech pilot wants their SRM or LRM missiles to seek NARC beacons, they must upgrade the ammunition to get that additional function of NARC. Both of these are non-existing in MWO.

For examples of how other games did this, please view the following material:

First Example - NARC Fires - SRM can now 'lock' onto target - SRM Missile tracks towards target like an SSRM


Second Example - NARC Fires - LRM Missile Auto-Seeks Beacon without pilot needing to aim at the target (Dumb-Fire missiles autoseeking nearest NARC beacon, otherwise directly targeting with LRM's the 'seek' function will ignore 'nearest beacon')

(Go to 9:00)

- Both games even had the ability for the NARC missile itself to have limited tracking towards target, allowing ease of use, and less wasted missiles

• Depending on the power of the missiles and other balance measures, the beacon should last 30-60 seconds, and make the target visible on radar. The ECM does not shut off the beacon, but temporarily clouds its affects. If ECM moves away before 30-60 seconds is up, the beacon is still active
  
• PPC friendly/enemy fire shuts off beacon permanently, new beacon must be attached
  
• SRM and LRM functionality as per video
  
• In order for seeking features, ammo must be upgraded (the cost is twice as much as the base price, as per the rules)

How amazing would it be if NARC was actually worth the 3 tons and could do all these multi-functional things it is supposed to do?

I would like to see this maybe do with the ammunition an upgrade feature like they do with artemis. One feature that it does now that I would hate to see *lost* is it messes with the target's IFF and marks them as an enemy to their own team. I have not seen it actually work so I do not know how useful it currently is but I can see it really helping scout mechs out with creating some chaos. maybe you would see NARCs more if they had a few more features and did the IFF too and maybe less capping on assault matches.


Edit: forgot to write lost after rereading my post.

Edited by FireSlade, 02 May 2013 - 06:00 AM.

[Deathlike]

MW3 did have better missiles by far...

I remember NARC in MW4 being a "non-weapon"... since it was difficult to tell if it worked.. and when it did work, it wasn't exactly obvious who was NARCed. The weapon itself was a disaster... of course MWO's version of NARC "works", but is technically useless by overall design.