9 replies to this topic

[Valore]

Are you sick of PUGs? Tired of dying, angry, cbill-less, with your blood pressure through the roof? Are you about to log on to the MWO General Discussion forums and make another post about how premades are ruining your game, and making yourself feel better with a good round of internet QQ, only to have people belittle you, your mother, and your unfortunate character flaws?

Well fear not sad pandas, your troubles are over. With our throughly researched and detailed guide, you too can PUG for FUN and PROFIT.

After learning and putting into play these cutting edge techniques, you too can become Lord of the PUGs, leading your own little army of scabs and cutthroats to your own little puppet dance.

Previous satisfied comments include:

'Thanks guys, you've made me realise how silly I was expecting human decency from the internets. I feel better now knowing and expecting everyone out there is a *#@(#'

'$*#& you noob!'

'PONIES!'

'Your guide is awesome! I now have become a professional manipulator of those below me. My real life career of middle management has taken off as well! Thanks!'

So without further ado:

Stage 1: Denial
This can't be happening, surely people aren't all complete tards, I'm sure things can only get better and PGI will somehow become competent and give me proper matchmaking.

What are PUGs?

Pugs are:

• Not the elite killer team of Kuritan robot samurai or hardbitten warriors with a heritage dating back to the Star League you were hoping for.
  
• Not there purely to raise your blood pressure.
  
• Not ALL suicide farmers or advanced AFK bots.
  
• Often misunderstood and equally frustrated individuals like yourself.

Accept this, and move on.





Stage 2: Anger
Why are you all so crap! I hate all of you, I hate this game. You're all out to get me. Screw you PGI!

Expecting team play? Frag that crap and vent it through an airlock. You want a team who listens, join a clan, or download a VOIP client.

You have a bunch of 7 people, who at worst will be AFK suicide Chinese-Nigerian Farmer Bots, and at best a set of derpy companions with the equivalent use of the average Friendly AI in most video games. With the occasional decent player thrown in.

Let's start from there.

Stage 3: Bargaining
Okay, maybe I'll bring a good build, and if I try my best, people will get that and try their best too. I'm sure people will appreciate it if I use TAG and call out targets.

Want to play your LRM boat? Good. Stop pugging, get TS/Vent/Mumble, find a team.

Otherwise realise that coming in with any build that requires teamwork is like expecting to find the kind of camraderie that puts the noble nature of the human spirit on display at a Black Friday sale.

As such, bring something with punch that can hold its own. A brawler, a scout hunter, a light striker. Basically something that will allow you to do a Cartman, and still do something when you take your toys and go home.

Stage 4: Depression
Why bother, they're all terrible anyway. All that will happen is that they'll die. I best accept it. Hell, maybe I should invest in a Chinese-Nigerian Suicide Bot program.

For those of you who are more idealistic, you can first try to ORGANISE the PUGs. Yes, I know, why should you, someone else should do it, or they're all useless whoresons who belittle you anyway.

If you think like that, then perhaps I could interest you in picking up some self-help literature on entitlement.

http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/1416575995

However, if you're a normal, decent person, who knows the fact that sometimes you have to make the first step, then yes, by all means try. Sometimes, people still have the ability to surprise you.

A friendly message on team chat, a suggestion as to what plan to take, big things often start from small gestures.

And if they do, then by all means, enjoy the shred of human decency you've managed to scrounge up from this cesspit of scum known as the MWO pugging community.

Of course, in general, there's a reason why stereotypes exist. If you're met by silence, or witty questions as to the chastity of your dear mother, then by all means, move on to Step 5.

Stage 5: Acceptance
You're all crap. But I'm better than this.

First, let me quantify this. If you're lousy at the game, at least in holding your own in a brawl, the game is now doing quite a good job of letting you know this fact.

And if you being lousy, is in fact, fact, then stop reading this guide, get off your high horse, and go learn to get better.

Join a clan, join TS, or read a few guides and watch a few videos. A good team doesn't want to carry your sorry behind either, so don't expect it to.

If however, you're of a decent standard, then you're now looking to salvage whatever you can out of this miserable, misbegotten bunch of derps.

Winning is no longer the goal. Putting yourself as far up the leaderboard, and winning as much XP and monies as you can is the best you can hope for.

Making Lemonade

1. Stick together (conditionally)

A smart man knows that no tool is useless. One day, even that square wheel or that helicopter ejection seat could come in useful.

So, when possible, stick with the sheep. You can't use a tool you throw away.

1.5. Don't lemming.

Pugs will be Pugs. Should they choose a path of colossal stupidity, you may wish to exercise your discretion and refuse to follow.

However, please note that often, you're better off pushing with them, then selling your life as dearly as possible, since capping no longer has much value, and your damage potential falls the less fodder you have to soak damage for you.

2. Use the PUGs. Unflinchingly.

At this point, having failed to find any redeeming qualities in your PUGs, you can safely relegate them to the same level of respect you have for disposable sporks.

Never lead the pack. Hang back, and focus on maintaining good situational awareness.

When a brawl breaks out, never draw aggro. Always fade back if you begin to draw attention, while maintaining as much damage output as you can.

If you're a straight out frontline brawler, then your best bet is to throw it all into the main brawl when it breaks out. Look for wounded or vulnerable targets, and aim for those. LRM boats, Long Range Direct Fire support that is more fragile, depending on what you run, go for those.

If you're a light striker or scout hunter, then find something to kill. LRM boats, other lights, vulnerable brawlers with a turned back. If you're a light striker/scout hunter worth his salt, then you're probably pretty independant even when playing in a team anyway.

And if you have the speed to run, do so if the brawl goes bad. Normally lights will chase you leaving their heavier team mates behind, allowing you a chance to pick them off without suffering from focus fire.

2.5. Prey on the Weak

Lone wolves don't have a pack backing them up to take down the harder targets. And in cases like these, its the hyenas and jackals among us that prosper.

Always be on the lookout for vulnerable targets. Cycle through targeting, and find those who are ready for the coup de grace. Circle around the battle if you must to reach the weak.

Never, I repeat NEVER, try to revert back to expecting something from the team, and doing something silly like helping them altruistically. Why? See the next point...

3. Never. Rely. On. Anyone.

Once you're set on your path, do not, under any circumstances, expect help from a PUG. You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

If you want to yell on teamchat for help when all hope is gone, by all means. Miracles may happen.

But save yourself the apoplectic fit trying to figure out why that bloody Raven is trying to kill an Atlas with a small laser rather than going to cap.

4. Finally, and most importantly, realise this is a team game.

The equation is thus:

Quote

No skill < Personal Skill < Teamwork < Personal Skill + Teamwork

Until we have FFA deathmatch, you're going to have to accept that there are people out there who have teamwork, and seeing as to how this is a team based game, there are plenty of them, and they will kick your teeth out.

That is the whole idea, more than the sum of its parts and all that.

So make the best of it, with the hope PGI releases a mode more suited for the Lone Wolves among us

Happy Pugging. I hope this at least helps a few of you avoid smashing your monitors in

[Mazzyplz]

very pessimistic approach, though well written and some good anger management, with comedy to boot!

but i happen to think pugs will listen if you just try the most appropiate way

[Soy]

You are very serious about pugging!

[Blahberry]

Logged in just to tell you that was a great read.

Another thing with PUGs. These are random *** people. I remember playing with one PUG team we had a guy who was the "commander", he told people the general idea and we did it. At the end of the game another player said "Good job controlling the bag of cats". I realized, he was right. Band the cats together and you will massacre, if not prepare to fall from war hardened, teamspeak monsters.

[Marvyn Dodgers]

Nice post!

[Madok Pryde]

this is a great guide for the new beginner, learning that looking for teamwork is a futile waste of time in pugs

[Hayashi]

Teamwork is possible, but expecting people to conform to your expectations is unrealistic. Try not to look at people's movements alone in detail, but for the overall movement plan - figure out what your PuG team is trying to do. If it's even half workable, coordinate your own movement to support them. The OP is correct in never expecting PuGs to help you, but is a bit too pessimistic regarding the possibility of teamwork. It's just that you'll have to create and adapt plans on the fly based on what everyone else is doing, and then you try to help them achieve their objectives. Some PuGs are destined to die in uselessness - the Leeroy Jenkins type, for instance. Your priorities will be to use their death if possible to achieve something else, and if not, to make sure as few others follow him as possible.

For instance, in River City, if you notice your PuGs all heading towards Upper City but you can see mechs going for lower, your priority will be to try to draw the enemy mechs into an engagement in the vicinity of Nav. Theta if possible. If not, cut the shortest path you can to the base, start a cap to split their team into defense and offense elements, then move back to your own base to waylay the offense elements. Your PuGs will naturally fight their defense elements and try to cap, even without instruction.

The key is not to try to manipulate their movements to fit your plan, but to use the movements they already decided on to create a plan for victory. There are certain cases where their movement is bound to fail. In those cases warn them nicely, and if they do not listen, the game is already lost, and your priority will now be to catch as many stragglers as possible and murder them one by one so that you get XP/C-Bills for doing something, even though the result of the game is already decided as a loss due to their utter incompetence.

Overall, you'll end up with more XP, more C-Bills, and a better idea on how to profit from each battle.

Some of the older players may remember me as one of the more outspoken PuG commanders during the age of the PuG vs Premade forum war in Closed Beta... sadly, the quality of PuGs has dropped so much since then that it no longer makes sense for me to do any commanding, since the chance anyone will listen has dropped to 25%, from the 90% it was in those days. I still coordinate movements if I drop with my friends in a lance, but as a PuG I act more as support for every friendly mech within range now rather than a commander... and to this end I changed my signature from 'PuG Commander Specialist' to 'Professional Kill Assister' to reflect the change in my PuG battle style.

---

To illustrate what I'm talking about I'll give you an example, the battle that just ended which I played after posting the initial section above, as it probably shows my point perfectly. I was piloting a Cicada-3M. It was Alpine Conquest... most players by now should know that the optimal strategy is to send all mediums + to Epsilon to fight/buy time, while lights cap kappa and theta, order depending on which team you're on, followed by capping the other home base from behind, then moving to reinforce at Epsilon.

At the start of this match basically all the mechs on my team started going east from Nav. Sigma... towards Nav Theta. This basically throws Epsilon away in most cases, as you cannot hold Epsilon without having at least the same number of mechs as the other team. I also know my team will head east towards Kappa the moment Theta is fully capped.

So to speed things up, my priority is to evade all enemy scouts and head directly for Nav. Gamma to capture their home base outright, since I can't outfight 4-6 mediums alone.

Now, halfway through, I notice Nav. Kappa being capped too fast - as if there were 3 mechs there... and Nav Epsilon was mysteriously untouched. This means the enemy team also used a weird approach, and was also heading the southern route - and would head west towards my team very shortly.

Fighting them alone is incredibly stupid, so since they don't have anyone at Nav. Epsilon and usually nobody plans earlier than me, I know that if I cap it now I can get out before any reaction from the enemy team can happen. So I now climb the mountain towards Epsi, and on the way up relay positional data on the enemy main force to my own team.

At this point, the game is won if my team is good. If not, my team will be annihilated. Fortunately, there was another player who decided not to fight, and circled around them to cap Nav. Kappa from behind. I took Nav Epsilon, then moved towards Nav Gamma to cap it. As he was parked there a little too long I gave him instructions to move north into the hill to hide, because a lone Jenner cannot fight a vanguard. He did so. Meanwhile, someone started counter-capping Epsilon. As I'm at Gamma, the enemy vanguard is in between Kappa and Theta and he's at Epsilon, my best guess was that he would head directly for Nav. Sigma from Epsilon, so I head directly for Epsilon again. Should my guess be wrong, I would be able to evade him on the way, and my higher speed should allow for me to cap Epsi completely before he can reach Gamma.

As it turns out, the pilots on my team were inferior to the enemy team, and my team was completely destroyed except the Kappa-north pilot hiding, and my. I capped Epsi completely, and the enemy who formerly capped it who was on the way to Sigma turned back. So I also turned back, because there's no point fighting against an AC/20 Catapult as a giant-CT Cicada. If he even has half my skill, it's a suicidal move... and head directly towards Nav Kappa. By this time any vanguard guards will definitely get itchy and attempt to countercap Gamma, so I head on the mountain in between to evade them... turns out there was one Jenner and one Dragon.

I told the other pilot to help me retake Kappa, with plans to thereafter move through the centre mountain and retake Epsilon from behind with his support against the AC/20 Catapult. He refused and charged Gamma, and unsurprisingly died. So I retook Kappa alone.

At this time, because all of my movements so far maintained a constant 4-5 friendly cap situation against their 1 by reading their movement and using my speed to keep ahead, we had 600 cap to their 200. Here's where it got dangerous, as it was now a 1 vs 6 fight, with all my teammates dead. Their team split to cap as many points as possible, and I know their fastest movers/nearest mechs will now head towards Kappa as they know I'm there. The Dragon is too far away since it's at Gamma... and I have no ability to fight 2 guards at a time to try to counter cap at this point, so my best option is to hold Kappa until I either win or die.

True enough, the first to reach was the Jenner from earlier... and it's a JR7-F(C). Since it only has lasers and no autoCT streaks, I have the advantage as my armour is heavier, my weapons are heavier, and if we were to randomly roll dice, the ELO situation is such that most good pilots will pick Heavies and Assaults to maximise the effect of their firing skill, which conversely indicates most light pilots will be newer pilots. As I'm one of the strongest light pilots around, there's hardly any contest when I outclass him in all three fields - armour, weapons and experience. So he died.

The movement manipulation I pulled from earlier ensured nobody else can reach in time. I won the match with 1 kill, total 3 kills on our team against their 7. but with 750 resources against their 550.

Attempting to command the PuGs at the start to use the conventional Epsi tactic would not work, people definitely won't listen. Heck, the end was already suboptimal because in the one occasion where I would have had the chance to work with the friendly Jenner pilot, he chose to fight 1 vs 2 and die instead. You have to read what people are doing, and move accordingly. I know my team will move east towards Kappa, I know their PuGs will move west towards Theta. Attempting to command them to break off would not work, and would only thin the numbers in the conflict, ending up sabotaging my team. So I have to act personally to manipulate the behaviour of both my teammates and the enemy team so that I always fight in battles in which the odds constantly favour my victory.

At the end of the day, teamwork is two way. When you cannot expect people to work as a team with you, you have to work with them instead. Then you'll get the results you want.

Also, you have to be realistic about yourself and your enemy. There have been battles before in which I face an enemy Atlas in my Cicada, and have to give up halfway when I notice he has enough skill to defeat me. Remember that in higher ELO classes, when the enemy has 2.5x the tonnage you bear in both armament and armour, an open fighting area virtually ensures that if you have equal skill, the lighter chassis pilot will die. There is no point in fighting a battle that you cannot win. If you're not 2.5x better than the other pilot, get out of the area and find something else you can do to win. In the earlier battle I also didn't engage the Catapult pilot because his loadout is strong against my loadout - we have equal ranges, his alpha is 40, my alpha is 30. He is in a 65 ton mech, I'm in a 40 ton mech. And AC/20 pairs deal pinpoint 40 damage which is enough that 2 lucky shots can kill me outright in the front - easy as Cicadas have such huge CTs. In such an instance it is foolish to engage and try my luck... if he is 66% as good as me or has good luck, I will definitely lose. Whereas against a Jenner, he will have to be 110-120% as good as me in order to win, especially when both of our loadouts contain only lasers.

It is also worth repeating, though most already say it elsewhere, that you should never engage in a 1 vs 2, 1 vs 3 etc battle, as in order to win that, even if you piloted identical loadouts, they have 200% the health and deal 200% the damage, so you'll have to be 4 times as good as the enemy pilots to win a 1 vs 2 combat. To win a 1 vs 5, you'll need to be 25 times as good. It's unrealistic in most cases to expect that you can possibly be that much better than your opponent when ELO is in place.

Edited by Hayashi, 19 May 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[An Ax Murderer]

Hayashi, on 19 May 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

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You just went full ****** man... never go full ******.

[DegeneratePervert]

Pugging will always suck when the developers don't allow a solo queue for people who aren't in a team. The only thing you can do to make pugging suck less is to not care when you lose.

[Hayashi]

4man premade + 4 PuGs vs. 3man premade + 3man premade + 2man premade.

Result: PuGs dominated, all premades dead.

It's entirely possible to do well as a PuG. We used our lights to charge their LRM boat and its Jenner guard, then turned around, focused fire and killed them off one by one.



Of course, their streak cheesing may have had something to do with it too.

Edited by Hayashi, 20 May 2013 - 10:06 AM.