11 replies to this topic

[Goldhawk]

The initial mechs that were launched with the game the Founders Atlas, Jenner, Catapult, and Hunchback.
I see them as the Huge mech killer, the original light mech, the missile support, and the brawler. Variations of the sortMany times that I have seen the mechs differ from those roles, something goes horribly wrong. Exceptions to this would be the A1 Catapult, and a few Hunchback variants.
The later mech designs seem to go through their phases as players attempt to use them outside of their intended purposes of their roles and rarely you find successes like the Atlas-RS as a mammoth PPC support boat. (If you call that a success)

(Sorry realized later that I did not clarify a support mech)
I classify support mechs are mechs that avoid high-intensity combat and their back-up weapon(s) is usually medium lasers, and if extended combat continues many times you run out of ammo.

Example: Cataphract. With 2 gauss and 2-3 medium lasers, most time you are a support mech and don't wade into combat otherwise, those big pretty gauss are gonna cause problems.

Usually really slow and lacking alot of ammo to make it through a match. The current AC/20 Rat build of the Jager is a support mech.

People keep complaining that some of the 2nd line mechs don't have enough armor or weapons.
Here's the laugh, perhaps the Treb and the Q-draw should be used for their intended purpose, Treb: Missile boat.
Q-draw: Harasser. Going outside of those roles is risky and possibly fatal to the team. Why you ask?
They are 2nd line machines. The Blackjack, Quickdraw, Trebuchet, and Jagermech, are mechs that are not really supposed to be in combat. The Blackjack and the Quickdraw specifically, are mechs that work well as a partner to a "primary" design.


Example of a "Primary" mech: The Stalker, it's a versatile mech platform that can mount almost anything that you want. Only exception is ballistics. But after the hero mech Misery, meh, it works alright. These are the mech types that can look over a hill and come back with half an torso and inform the team that, oh, yea, they are in grid C5...... Not classifying primary mechs as heavily armored mechs, but from many of the classics, they are pretty hard to kill then the newer mechs. Primary mechs can be support mechs. Classification: Catapult, Stalker

The thing that I find the most interesting is that after the last few months, the mechs have resumed many of their traditional roles. Stalkers are rarely running directly into battle and killing off mechs, they are staying back and supporting their teammates with LRMS. YES! I have rarely seen Trebuchets now since the Quickdraw has come out, and the only ones I see are missile variant trebs.

[Alaskan Nobody]

I prefer not to deviate (much...) from the stock loadouts for that very reason, that... and pseudo-roleplaying my character, who wouldn't be able to variate the machines much....

[Khobai]

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Here's the laugh, perhaps the Treb and the Q-draw should be used for their intended purpose, Treb: Missile boat.
Q-draw: Harasser. Going outside of those roles is risky and possibly fatal to the team. Why you ask?
They are 2nd line machines

The problem with that idea is that theres no real incentive to use the Treb as a missile boat. In order for LRMs to work they have to be spammed which the Treb is incapable of doing. At most you can put two LRM15s on it which is at best a mediocre loadout as far as LRM boating is concerned.

It would be nice if the Treb/Catapult got quirks that gave them bonuses to missile lock-on, tracking, and spread. So you could actually play them in their intended role and not be at such a huge disadvantage to an LRM Stalker/Awesome.

[BrianLocke]

Khobai, on 04 September 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

The problem with that idea is that theres no real incentive to use the Treb as a missile boat. In order for LRMs to work they have to be spammed which the Treb is incapable of doing. At most you can put two LRM15s on it which is at best a mediocre loadout as far as LRM boating is concerned.

I disagree that two LRM 15s are not useful. I used 2 LRM 20s on my Stalker after the ghost heat patch, but switched back to 4 LRM 10s ripple fired, but I did plenty of damage with the LRM 20s and LRM 15s have a faster recycle time. As a support mech the Treb is mobile, reasonably fast and can put a significant volume of LRMs on target. If you can get multiple LRM support mechs together in a fire lance and work together they can devastate just about any enemy.

[Khobai]

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I disagree that two LRM 15s are not useful.

I didnt say two LRM15s werent useful. I said it was a mediocre loadout compared to an LRM awesome/stalker which can have twice as many launchers.

[BrianLocke]

Khobai, on 06 September 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

I didnt say two LRM15s werent useful. I said it was a mediocre loadout compared to an LRM awesome/stalker which can have twice as many launchers.

True, but it is much cheaper and much faster than an awesome or a stalker. On my LRM Stalker I use 4 LRM10s and with proper timing when I ripple fire I can maintain a steady stream of LRMs on any poor S O B that gets stuck in the open. I can see using the Treb as a Support mech, but no, it will never be a proper LRM boat, but it also has it's own strengths. I think the point is that the Treb is a second line mech that has a role to play as a support mech.

[Stormwolf]

Mech roles pretty much go out the window with customization.
Which is a shame really, I think that it pretty much kills the mech's character if it gets min maxed.

[BrianLocke]

Stormwolf, on 06 September 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Mech roles pretty much go out the window with customization.
Which is a shame really, I think that it pretty much kills the mech's character if it gets min maxed.

Yes and no. While you can change the loadout of the different mechs, the inherent flaws and strengths of the various chassis remain. A stalker makes a terrible brawler because of it's slow movement, turn rate and limited torso twist. While you can load it up like a Brawler, and even win some fights, it will never be a champion.

[Stormwolf]

BrianLocke, on 06 September 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Yes and no. While you can change the loadout of the different mechs, the inherent flaws and strengths of the various chassis remain. A stalker makes a terrible brawler because of it's slow movement, turn rate and limited torso twist. While you can load it up like a Brawler, and even win some fights, it will never be a champion.

My point was that the current level of customization had turned the classic IS mechs into pseudo omnimechs that got tailored to the most overpowered weapon. The CPLT-A1 could be configured as a LRM boat or as a SRM brawler (splatcat).

Even more so with the 4 PPC Stalker we saw till recently, it was pretty much a poor man's Hellstar. The original Stalker on the other hand was supposed to be a weapons platform that could increase in firepower as the enemy mech(s) would come nearer.

The intended roles are quickly getting phased out depending on the current weapon stats, the mechs have been reduced to a collection of hardpoints as a result.

[MavRCK]

One has to be careful to define a mech into roles outside of their usual classification of light, medium, heavy and assault. It can be confusing for new players to think of their mech as brawler, sniper, support, scout initially.

The key thing firstly is to remember:

- lights are lightly-armored and then are primarily a scout and support the heavier classes above them
- mediums are medium-armored andsupport the heavier classes above them
- heavies are heavily-armored and support the assaults
- assaults are the most-armored and need to lead the team fights and support the mechs below them

How a mech supports the other mechs on its team may be by brawling, sniping or long-range support, but you should never forget to support your team as per the rules above.

Nothing is worse than an assault that decides to be an LRM boat and won't lead the charge by taking a few hits that would do *nothing* to it, but would outright kill or cripple a light / medium.

MWO is a thinking-man's game so THINK!

Edited by MavRCK, 09 September 2013 - 09:01 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

MavRCK, on 09 September 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

One has to be careful to define a mech into roles outside of their usual classification of light, medium, heavy and assault. It can be confusing for new players to think of their mech as brawler, sniper, support, scout initially.

The key thing firstly is to remember:

- lights are lightly-armored and then are primarily a scout and support the heavier classes above them
- mediums are medium-armored and play support the heavier classes above them
- heavies are heavily-armored and support the assaults
- assaults are the most-armored and need to lead the team fights and support the mechs below them

How a mech supports the other mechs on its team may be by brawling, sniping or long-range support, but you should never forget to support your team as per the rules above.

Nothing is worse than an assault that decides to be an LRM boat and won't lead the charge by taking a few hits that would do *nothing* to it, but would outright kill or cripple a light / medium.

MWO is a thinking-man's game so THINK!

I have often wondered why people have insisted on those titles before... but have not been thinking clearly enough to phrase it in any way sensible.

Thanks!

[Cybertek]

I have played a lot of different chassis, and agree that when you take a mech out of its role bad things start to happen. It does seem that there are a lot of people that typically play assaults are the one waiting in the background while their teammates die. I like sitting in the back ground while their lights and mediums are tied up with my teams lights to heavys and then I sit back and rain LRMs on them.

Stormwolf, on 06 September 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

My point was that the current level of customization had turned the classic IS mechs into pseudo omnimechs that got tailored to the most overpowered weapon. The CPLT-A1 could be configured as a LRM boat or as a SRM brawler (splatcat).

The intended roles are quickly getting phased out depending on the current weapon stats, the mechs have been reduced to a collection of hardpoints as a result.

You can see this with people that run Dual AC/10s or LBX on the one version of the Catapult instead of the typical missile boat. Platform. When a Jagermech would be esentially the same things. All I know is I have seen some crazy builds of wierd weapons configuration that I just don't understand when I am watching teammates play after I have died. Then after a little bit I realize why I got owned, because their loadout just could not bring enough punch. Perhaps they need to place weight limits on certain areas of a mech to limit what weapons can be mounted where. Maybe this would get rid of the Omnimech appearance. My Stalker was a 4PPC mech before the update, bcause I knew I could one hit a light (damn Jenners). However after they changed the heat penaties and I took my Misery back to take advantage of what it was supposed to be I realized how much better of a platform it was overall.

Think the other issues the might cause this is people that don't want to pay for another Dock Bay or just limited CBills at first. You figure you feel like if you get a Stalker and load it out with missiles then change it to a brawler type stalker. They prolly feel like they have two different choices or "Mechs" instead of buying an Atlas and a Stalker, and having to get an extra bay. Plus the weapons, and upgraded engines, etc....