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[Lazy Eye]

Right now, light 'mechs can do three things:

• Cap.
  
• Kill medium 'mechs, because they're smaller, faster and carry about the same firepower and only slightly less armour.
  
• Ninja bigger 'mechs in the back because of the lack of 360 sensors.

This is related to the other post I made Fixing the 'light hunter' role, in which, I suggest that part of the problem with the 'light hunter' role, is that the role of lights themselves is poorly defined. This is my "don't state a problem without suggesting a solution" post.



Question: Should light 'mechs be able to take on bigger 'mechs?

Fundamentally, I believe that no, they shouldn't. If you don't agree with me, then you probably also believe that the role of light 'mechs is not 'broken', so doesn't need 'fixing'.

If so, a simple "I don't think the role of light 'mechs needs changing." post will suffice - your opinion will be noted, without acrimony.

If you're still reading, then I will assume that you do think that the role of light 'mechs does needs changing. The following also apply:

• References to reality are done on the basis that people like things that match with their experience of the world.
  
• References to the tabletop (TT) game are on the basis that the TT is generally considered a good game, rather than an obsession with turning MWO into a direct translation of the TT rules.

In reality, a 65 ton tank will utterly annihilate a more lightly armoured infantry fighting vehicle at almost any range, while the IFV would need to be at close range (and/or beside/behind) to be able to damage the MBT.




For comparison, Western MBTs (Abrams, Challenger 2, Leopard 2) have a combat weight of about 65 metric tonnes, while IFVs are in the 25-tonne class (Bradley, Warrior).

This actually translates into the TT game: a 25t 'mech that gets behind a 65t at close range can cause serious/fatal damage; if it's in front, it will normally get annihilated in VERY short-order.

So, fundamentally, if you're going to have different tonnage classes and 'role warfare', light 'mechs need to able to do something OTHER than fighting and consequently, the rewards for playing need to change.

My suggestion for fixing the role of light 'mechs is as follows:

Step 1: Active/passive sensors

Something that's already in the pipeline according to official info on this forum.

A 'mech using active sensors will have MUCH larger detection range, but will, at the same time, light up like a Christmas tree on enemy sensors.

• Active-Active range should be about 3km (or maybe even more...)
  
• Active-Passive or Passive-Active range should be about 1.5km
  
• Passive-Passive range should be about 750m

Step 2: Detectability based on tonnage and visible area



A 'mech that is not using active sensors has a "detectability" rating based on:

• Tonnage
  
• Visible area
  
• Range to detector (and whether using active sensors and Beagle)

So, a small 'mech would be able to stick it's head (or even just the sensor antennae) above a ridge line, they'll be able to see enemy 'mechs running active sensors WAY before the enemy can see it.



The active/passive sensors distinction is important, because it would give WAY too much of an advantage to people hiding behind terrain IMO, that and in reality, the enemy could detect your emissions and locate you (even if they couldn't shoot you).

With this mechanic in place, a clever scout using passive sensors, could spot for their team and would have to be actively searched for, because you generally wouldn't detect them until you were on top of them.

Step 3: Reward Spotting and Light-Light kills more in light(er) 'mechs.

The 'role' of light 'mechs is either spotting/scouting on behalf of bigger 'mechs or it's going round actively searching for enemy lights.

Right now, the biggest rewards come from kills and damage, so this is the way people play. You MUST change the rewards or people won't change - simple human nature.

To this end, a light 'mech should receive more for spotting than a medium (you could also make this chassis-specific, to reflect the design intent...)

If you want to encourage lights and mediums to hunt other lights, then they should get a bonus for doing damage to a light 'mech - maybe even as much as 4x bonus.

Step 4: Reward Heavy-Heavy kills more than Heavy-Light kills

Simple: assault 'mechs get more for killing assault 'mechs than they do for killing lights; give bigger 'mechs an incentive to prioritise targeting bigger 'mechs.


I'm not sure this is coming across how I intend, but basically, it should be that if a Commando kills a Commando, the player gets the same reward as an Atlas that kills an Atlas. If a Commando kills an Atlas, he gets 1/4 (or less) the amount he would get for killing the Commando and the same goes if the Atlas killed a Commando.

I know this may sound a bit perverse, but the bottom line is that without different reward structures for different classes, you will never achieve role warfare - people will just stick to the PPC or AC/40 or LRM/100 or whatever weapon combo gives them the best chance of doing most damage.

Step 5: Make all 'mechs the same size

I know this is gonna be controversial, so hear me out, okay?

In reality, there isn't much of a size difference between a tank and an APC/IFV. It's also consistent with the TT game, where all 'mechs have the same number of slots and the weapons take up the same amount of space no matter what size of 'mech it's in.

At the moment, because it's all about damage, if lights were the same size as mediums, they would get smashed to bits and be able to do no damage at all. At the same time, there is the perversion where, because light 'mechs are SO small, that meduim 'mechs are extremely ineffective as 'light hunters' and also that assault 'mechs can't hit a light that is right next to it.

Making 'mechs all the same size would mean that, yes, an assault 'mech would kill a light "instantly" and the light would be able to do relatively little damage to it, BUT with the reward system outlined above, the assault would get very little benefit from doing so.

At the same time, there would be no reward for the light for the damage it did to the assault - it would be better-served looking for a light to shoot.

In Summary

• Give lights a role that they do better than anything else
  
• Adjust the reward structure so that lights don't need to do as much damage to get the same return as they would in a bigger 'mech.
  
• Reduce the damage potential of light 'mechs by making all 'mechs the same size, to encourage them to focus on the role for which they get the highest rewards.

With these changes, it should be absolutely unambiguous that in terms of raw combat performance, lights are the worst, assaults are the best, but that it doesn't matter because there's more to combat than pure damage.

Edited by Lazy Eye, 04 July 2013 - 04:05 PM.

[Lorria]

So I play light mechs almost exclusively, and whilst I agree with some of what you say, I also disagree with some of it.

As a light mech I do the following things (in no particular order):

• Cap
  
• Scout (find the location and composition of the enemy force)
  
• Harass and distract (try to split the enemies attention)
  
• Seek out and kill enemy units that have become isolated (best done with another light to help)
  
• Spot for LRM boats (although it's mostly a waste of time in my experience)
  
• Act as a rapid base defense force, if our base is being capped
  
• Assist friendly units that have become isolated and are being attacked
  
• Hunt LRM boats
  
• Hunt other light mechs

To my mind light mechs are the most varied and challenging classes in MWO. And personally if lights were pigeon-holed into a much more limited role as you suggest I simply wouldn't play MWO.

Playing a light mech is simply a choice to take more speed and less weapons/armor. That extra speed has many many uses, not just capping or scouting. For example, I often use my speed to rapidly move from battle to battle turning a one-vs-one into a two-vs-one or a one-vs-two into a two-vs-two.


Now you ask: Should light mechs be able to take on bigger mechs?

To my mind the answer obviously has to be "it depends".

Firstly a good pilot should always be able to beat a bad pilot, no matter what mechs they are in. And 'good' and 'bad' are situational things. Many heavy and assault pilots are great at fighting other heavies or assaults, but really suck at fighting lights. I often fight assaults one-on-one in my light, and I frequently win. Almost always it's because my opponent doesn't know how to defend against a light. Or they've got themselves into a bad situation without realizing it. Fighting light mechs is different, you need different tactics.

So in general the way it works now is that combat with light mechs it is all about the numbers game, far more so than for any other class. Whether a light mech is strong or weak in combat depends on the situation. In a light you are always looking to use your speed to stack the numbers game in your favor. Light mechs will almost always lose if out-numbered, and being successful in the light class is about making sure you are never out-numbered. As I say I think this dynamic is interesting, and for me it's the best thing about MWO.

Now what I do agree on is that the rewards for doing anything other than damage really suck. At the moment when you choose to be a light specialist you are accepting that you are not going to be making as many c-bills as you would in an assault. You choose to play lights because you love lights, or you like the variety of it. There are also lots of roles that are of really marginal value: scouting is often as waste of time on maps that are small, spotting for LRM boats rarely works that well in my experience.

I like your ideas for active/passive sensors and spotting based on size. That could make the scout role more useful, and might add 'stealth' as a meaningful aspect to the gameplay. But I'm not keen on the rest of it, as to me it just feels like pigeon-holing the light class into a far more limited role.