7 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Was discussing the pros and cons of the Cyclops Mech in the Mech and Loadout section when I had this thought.

The only way really to differentiate the Cyclops from the Atlas/Highlander/Orion, all of which have variants almost identical to the primary Cyclops, would be to give it increased electronic warfare capability. One of the best ways, aside from ECM inclusion, would be through the Module slots. Such as possibly having limited weapon hardpoints (none of the added freebies so many mechs get) and instead give it 3-4 base Module slots.

The Tacticon B2000 Battlecomp is what made the Mech famous, and it's capabilities are part of what made units like the Eridani Light Horse and Wolf's Dragoons so effective.

So my thought is maybe like this:
a "Large" Module, that requires 2 Module Slots.

It effectively collates ALL the module data from the rest of it's lance and broadcasts a "total" picture back to it's lancemates, so that for instance, mechs on opposite ends of the map could read each other's Seismic Modules, Enhanced Sensor Ranges. (At least I don't recall getting fed seismic from other dudes modules)

The "Upgrade" would allow it to "hack" enemy information within range (say 500 meters) to be able to read what their Seismic Modules were reading, see who is painted, UAVs, etc.

a Second Module would be:
Olmstead 840 Tight Beam Suite (1 Slot, can only be used if Tacticon is equipped)
Which would allow it to broadcast all the information back and forth to the WHOLE company (8 or 12 man).

Thoughts?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 July 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MAYBE THIS NEEDS MORE qq

[Strum Wealh]

The first part (the enhanced data collation/dissemination) is what C3 Networks are for, and that aspect (IMO) should remain unique to them - doubly-so, since both C3 Command Units and C3 Slave Units are equipment that consume weight and space and should not be superseded/replaced by Modules that do neither!

Also:

• "The most important feature of the 'Mech though is its advanced electronics: a holographic Tacticon B-2000 Battle Computer allows the pilot to effectively command up to brigade-sized units, while the Olmstead 840 tight beam comm suite with SatNav module allows for planet-wide communication capabilities."
  
• "Representing the presence of a tactical battle computer that offers much more effective control over a force, the Battle Computer Quirk designates a unit as being an advanced command unit; this manifests in a bonus to Initiative Rolls made by the force containing the unit, although this modifier is not cumulative with that granted by the presence of a Command BattleMech."

What actual BT gameplay rules, other than the above-quoted quirk (from pg. 193 of Strategic Operations), actually define the Tacticon's capabilities (in a way separate from those of the Command Console and the common Satellite Uplink)?

If the Cyclops' unique capabilities are to be modeled accurately, it would (IMO) necessarily need to come in the form something non-modular and hardwired to the 'Mech itself (so that it can't just be taken out and shoved into a FOTM Atlas/Highlander/Stalker/etc).

[Solis Obscuri]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

MAYBE THIS NEEDS MORE qq

Have I mentioned how much a no-skill 12 year old you are, or to what degree you remind me of the former war-mongering genocidal dictator of socialist 20th century Germany?

Joking aside, I'm very keen to see more information warfare tools in this game, though I'm not sure if the Cyclops will ever make it in. Command Console functionality likewise has yet to be revealed, and might encompass some of these features... or not. I could certainly get behind the notion of having certain advantages for specially-equipped command battlemechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 07 July 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

The first part (the enhanced data collation/dissemination) is what C3 Networks are for, and that aspect (IMO) should remain unique to them - doubly-so, since both C3 Command Units and C3 Slave Units are equipment that consume weight and space and should not be superseded/replaced by Modules that do neither!

Also:

• "The most important feature of the 'Mech though is its advanced electronics: a holographic Tacticon B-2000 Battle Computer allows the pilot to effectively command up to brigade-sized units, while the Olmstead 840 tight beam comm suite with SatNav module allows for planet-wide communication capabilities."
  
• "Representing the presence of a tactical battle computer that offers much more effective control over a force, the Battle Computer Quirk designates a unit as being an advanced command unit; this manifests in a bonus to Initiative Rolls made by the force containing the unit, although this modifier is not cumulative with that granted by the presence of a Command BattleMech."

What actual BT gameplay rules, other than the above-quoted quirk (from pg. 193 of Strategic Operations), actually define the Tacticon's capabilities (in a way separate from those of the Command Console and the common Satellite Uplink)?


If the Cyclops' unique capabilities are to be modeled accurately, it would (IMO) necessarily need to come in the form something non-modular and hardwired to the 'Mech itself (so that it can't just be taken out and shoved into a FOTM Atlas/Highlander/Stalker/etc).

The REAL advantage of C3 was targeting info, which is going to be essentially impossible, and largely irrelevant with the twitch shot pin point precision of this game, anyhow. While it might encompass some of the ideas that overlap, I think functional uses would be different. (I envision C³ would more or less allow you to target as if you were at the distance as the closest member of your network (the big advantage) which might translate to having your zoom window act as if you were at that range).

Of course, the non targeting aspect aside, yes the Tacticon was a fluff c3 before they decided to add the "official" version.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 07 July 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

The first part (the enhanced data collation/dissemination) is what C3 Networks are for, and that aspect (IMO) should remain unique to them - doubly-so, since both C3 Command Units and C3 Slave Units are equipment that consume weight and space and should not be superseded/replaced by Modules that do neither!

Also:

• "The most important feature of the 'Mech though is its advanced electronics: a holographic Tacticon B-2000 Battle Computer allows the pilot to effectively command up to brigade-sized units, while the Olmstead 840 tight beam comm suite with SatNav module allows for planet-wide communication capabilities."
  
• "Representing the presence of a tactical battle computer that offers much more effective control over a force, the Battle Computer Quirk designates a unit as being an advanced command unit; this manifests in a bonus to Initiative Rolls made by the force containing the unit, although this modifier is not cumulative with that granted by the presence of a Command BattleMech."

What actual BT gameplay rules, other than the above-quoted quirk (from pg. 193 of Strategic Operations), actually define the Tacticon's capabilities (in a way separate from those of the Command Console and the common Satellite Uplink)?


If the Cyclops' unique capabilities are to be modeled accurately, it would (IMO) necessarily need to come in the form something non-modular and hardwired to the 'Mech itself (so that it can't just be taken out and shoved into a FOTM Atlas/Highlander/Stalker/etc).

As for the hardwired, tis one reason I would want it to take 2 or even 3 slots (plus another for the Olmstead) because few mechs have the module slots needed, and most would rather dedicate them to UAV, Coolshot, Seismic, etc. And in theory, on e COULD jury rig a Tacticon into another mech. (And the reason I would have the Cyc start with it, is that few have working ones in this era anyhow)

[Strum Wealh]

Though, that brings us back to "the Command Console is already in-game, is timeline-appropriate, and is supposed to do everything the Tacticon does, and more".

In fact, I actually had a thread regarding the Console's potential capabilities some months ago.

Quote

First, a bit of background:
The Command Console (also called the Cockpit Command Console, and not to be confused with the Dual Cockpit Combat System or MWO's BattleMap/BattleGrid) is an electronic system described in Tactical Operations (one of the current BattleTech rulebooks) and associated with "command 'Mechs" like the AS7-D-DC Atlas, ON1-V-DC Orion, AWS-9Ma Awesome, and others.
It was lost to the IS around 2850, and recovered around 3030.

The device is generally found on Heavy and Assault 'Mechs (as there are mechanical benefits for doing so in BattleTech, and "to receive this benefit, however, the Command Console unit must be of the heavy or assault weight classes and feature Advanced Fire Control (which is an optional system on non-military units such as IndustrialMechs and Support Vehicles, but is incorporated automatically on all BattleMechs, Combat Vehicles, and Fighters)").

The system itself weighs three (3) tons and consumes one (1) critical space (normally, the one in the head of a 'Mech; "Cockpit Command Consoles must always be placed in the same location as the primary cockpit (usually the head of a ’Mech or the body of a vehicle)").

Due to its nature ("Actually little more than a second cockpit mounted behind the main console, the Cockpit Command Console allows a high-level commander to focus on “real time” strategy in the field, while largely leaving a unit’s operation to its pilot"), their focus on personal achievements and personal glory, and their nototious use of cramped and spartan cockpit setups, the Clans generally do not make use of Command Consoles.

So, what does the Command Console actually do in BattleTech?
-- It adds an initiative modifier for the player (likely having little/no bearing on MWO).
-- In certain situations (e.g. a critical hit against the primary cockpit), it can function as a sort of "extra life" for the 'Mech in question (again, likely having little/no bearing on MWO).
-- It can generate Ghost Targets (that is, sensor ghosts and false radar returns) within a 180 meter radius of the Console.
-- It can locate and establish an uplink with friendly or neutral satellites in orbit around the planet in question (assuming said satellites are above the area inhabited by the Console). There are a number of satellite types available, including:

• Communications: allows for "a comprehensive coordination of overlapping lines of fire"; increases [accuracy at] effective range (by expanding the "long" range bracket) by ~30 meters (1 hex)
  
• Resource: allows for "long-term ground-penetrating imagery comparisons" of terrain; improves knowledge of terrain features (geysers, sinkholes, hot spots, and so on)
  
• Navigation: allows for the "ability to find the optimal path through the terrain based on detailed images"; slight speed boost (+1 MP for some units) across certain paths
  
• Military: allows for the ability to detect minefields, as well as to detonate enemy-controlled, command/remote-detonated minefields
  
• Scientific: allows for map-wide ECCM (ECM Counter Mode) effects or map-wide Ghost Target generation effects, but not both
  
• Weather: allows for partial negation of weather effects against the unit's sensors and those of its allies

-- It can link to and monitor up to four (4) remote sensors deployed by a friendly unit from a distance of up to 2010 meters (67 hexes).
-- Unless using the SciSat ECCM ability against a single ECM Suite, an ECM suite can cut off a Command Console from satellites, remote sensors, and allied units (in much the same way as ECM would disrupt a C3 network).

---------------

So, the discussion: what are people's opinions as to what the Command Console could/should be able to do in MWO?

Personally, I feel that one thing it can/should do is be the means to expand the functionality of the BattleMap/BattleGrid by allowing one to become the Company Commander (as the eventual 12 'Mechs for 12v12 represents an IS Company), and allow for additional features (like calling in scouting/surveillance UAVs, air strikes, and "off-board" artillery strikes).

I am also of the opinion that the Command Console should have both its Ghost Target generation capability, as well as its Remote Sensor capability (as the PC Gamer article did mention "dropped-off detectors").

However, I think that one of the more interesting issues that the Console could face is how (and if) the satellite link and the various related abilities (especially the ECCM - how powerful it should be and whether or not it should remain map-wide) could/would be implemented.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 08 July 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Though, that brings us back to "the Command Console is already in-game, is timeline-appropriate, and is supposed to do everything the Tacticon does, and more".

In fact, I actually had a thread regarding the Console's potential capabilities some months ago.

AND YET.....

what does the Command Console that has been in DDCs everywhere actually accomplish, as of this writing?

Wait for it......








































































wait for it......











































































still waiting.......