8 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

I am suggesting that the Double-Fire feature of Ultra Autocannons be restricted to function within a defined window of time after firing the primary shot.

Currently, the Ultra Autocannons will fire a second shot if the User clicks the firing button any time after the first shot has been fired. This current implementation of the UAC weapons platform creates 3 significant consequences that I'd like to address:

• 1.) Users who click the mouse too hard are likely to accidentally fire an unintended double shot immediately after the first shot is fired.
  
• 2.) Users who try to perpetually fire their weapon in single-shot mode are likely to accidentally fire double shots when clicking the fire button during subsequent firing sequences.
  
• 3.) Users who employ a button macro are able to perpetuate their Ultra Autocannon with 0% risk of accidental doubleshots, while allowing themselves to use a secondary firing button to utilize doubleshots at their own discretion without their macro.

I am suggesting a possible solution to all three of these consequences:



If the Double-Shot function was only accessible during a specific window of time after firing a single shot, then all 3 of the aforementioned consequences would be alleviated.

So, how would people feel if the second shot of a UAC/5 was only available during 0.2 <-> 0.75 seconds after firing the first shot, or something like that?

I think this has the potential to prevent ALL accidental double firings while simultaneously eliminating the Macro Advantage. There will be more UAC platforms introduced into the game in the foreseeable future, and the numbers I gave above are just an example of how i think a UAC/5 could be treated; other numbers may be employed. However, as an overall-concept, do other Users think this would be beneficial to the game, or detrimental?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 22 July 2013 - 10:21 AM.

[General Taskeen]

I believe UAC's should fire permanently in bursts, and the shells should be reduced damage for the burst.

Like for instance, if all UAC's were to fire "2 Shells" in a burst. Then a UAC/5 should be 3 Damage Per shell, for a possibility of 6 damage if the user is a good shot and hits the same location. This would be way less ludicrous than an insane 10 damage per double shot over a normal AC/5, and a future UAC/10 with a total of 20 damage, and a UAC/20 with a more insane total of 40 Damage.

The "percentage chance" to jam needs to be completely scrapped and replaced with something else like barrel overheat so the user knows when a jam will happen instead of guessing by abritrary dice rolling. Dice Rolling mechanics for firing weapons do not need to be in the game. That's my 2 Cents.

Edited by General Taskeen, 22 July 2013 - 12:32 PM.

[Phaesphoros]

It's better than what we have now. Though I'd advocate holding down the (mouse) button wouldn't double fire at all.

If you want to double-fire, with the chance of the weapon jamming, every sane engineer would implement a safety mechanism such that this chance only occurs if the pilot explicitly takes it. An example would be a toggle or repeated mouse clicks: double click = double shot. Single click (and hold-down): single shot (every 1.1 s).

Edited by Phaesphoros, 22 July 2013 - 12:56 PM.

[Tice Daurus]

Phaesphoros, on 22 July 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

It's better than what we have now. Though I'd advocate holding down the (mouse) button wouldn't double fire at all.

If you want to double-fire, with the chance of the weapon jamming, every sane engineer would implement a safety mechanism such that this chance only occurs if the pilot explicitly takes it. An example would be a toggle or repeated mouse clicks: double click = double shot. Single click (and hold-down): single shot (every 1.1 s).

I would agree with this. You want to double fire an Ultra AC/5? You have to double click. And the OP's idea is with some merit, so I give a +1 for it, and not because he's my merc mate either. If you're constantly double clicking to fire, your chances to jam should be as they are now. However, if you're moderating the firing and your not constantly double-clicking and spamming fire faster than normal, either the chances to jam should be lessened or eliminated completely.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 23 July 2013 - 08:49 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I did initially think of a double-click safety, but I also considered the basic gaming instinct of holding the trigger down to achieve maximum rate of fire... The double click technique, although a certain Physical Safety, will leave people clicking the @&-;&)$ out of their mouses while trying to fire everything they have, whereas I proposed a way to allow you to just hold the mouse button down to rain shells (at the obvious risk of jamming) while providing a highly-buffered environment for when you are timing your button presses.

The normal AC/5 is extremely user friendly (point -> click) whereas the UAC/5 is more complex than that. If you point and click a UAC/5 then it should be operating in All-Or-Nothing Mode, and I think it should require multiple deliberate clicks to fire it in a slower, controlled fashion.

However... That really wasn't the point of my idea (to debate the current requirement of multiple clicks to avoid/produce double shots). I was kind of hoping that the window of fire idea could be debated simply from the perspective of the current game mechanics, instead of being compared to an alternative system that is not currently implemented.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 23 July 2013 - 06:04 PM.

[Phaesphoros]

Prosperity Park, on 23 July 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

However... That really wasn't the point of my idea (to debate the current requirement of multiple clicks to avoid/produce double shots). I was kind of hoping that the window of fire idea could be debated simply from the perspective of the current game mechanics, instead of being compared to an alternative system that is not currently implemented.

If there's currently no window at all (as I suspect) than it's all about introducing another mechanic

Prosperity Park, on 23 July 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

I did initially think of a double-click safety, but I also considered the basic gaming instinct of holding the trigger down to achieve maximum rate of fire... The double click technique, although a certain Physical Safety, will leave people clicking the @&-;&)$ out of their mouses while trying to fire everything they have, whereas I proposed a way to allow you to just hold the mouse button down to rain shells (at the obvious risk of jamming) while providing a highly-buffered environment for when you are timing your button presses.

My reasoning is: when you want to use only single shots, you'd have to click at precisely 1.1 s to get the maximum DPS -- with your system, you could have some jitter, but the rate must be 1 click / 1.1 s. Keeping this rate is hard to impossible, so you'd still have an advantage when using macros AND having a steady and low ping. Clicking every 1.1 s is also very tedious, whereas spamming the clicks when you need a high DPS burst is like OMGSUDDENLYATLASPANIC and more intuitively can lead to jamming.

But my reasoning assumes that single-shot is normal operation, whereas double-shots are exceptional. This is not the case atm in MWO (where for non-macro users, double-shots are normal).

I agree that using a toggle would be a more comfortable solution, where you don't have to time your shots or spam the button. But this would require even more changes, like introducing a third fire mode besides group and chain fire.

PS: I keep an eye on the meme thread

Edited by Phaesphoros, 26 July 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[Hellcat420]

General Taskeen, on 22 July 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

I believe UAC's should fire permanently in bursts, and the shells should be reduced damage for the burst.

Like for instance, if all UAC's were to fire "2 Shells" in a burst. Then a UAC/5 should be 3 Damage Per shell, for a possibility of 6 damage if the user is a good shot and hits the same location. This would be way less ludicrous than an insane 10 damage per double shot over a normal AC/5, and a future UAC/10 with a total of 20 damage, and a UAC/20 with a more insane total of 40 Damage.

The "percentage chance" to jam needs to be completely scrapped and replaced with something else like barrel overheat so the user knows when a jam will happen instead of guessing by abritrary dice rolling. Dice Rolling mechanics for firing weapons do not need to be in the game. That's my 2 Cents.

you should never know when a weapon is going to jam. that kind of defeats the purpose of weapon jam. uac5's are powerful weapons, weapon jam is their major downside. there should be no way around it or any way to predict it so that you can work around it and avoid weaponjams. its not a dice rolling mechanic, its a random occurance, just like all of the random stuff that happens in real combat, such as weapon jams.

Edited by Hellcat420, 26 July 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[Bendak]

You could add a module for people who can't use a mouse. This module could have the double fire window safety feature you propose. Other than that what General Taskeen said.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Bendak, on 27 July 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

You could add a module for people who can't use a mouse. This module could have the double fire window safety feature you propose. Other than that what General Taskeen said.

Yeah, but he's requesting thatthe UAC/5 mechanic be changed. Requesting that UAC/5s change their behavior based on requiring the single/double clicks to engage certain functions IS a change in the game's mechanic. Although you may think it's a good idea, it has nothing really to do with this thread or my original idea.

I am requesting that the Mechanic remain as-is, with just a small window of time where the doubleshot doesn't happen. It's not a new game mechanic. I means that if you hold the trigger it'll continually fire shots as currently designed, the only change being that the doubleshots will be a little more spaced-out. My proposal will make it so if you click the trigger too hard it won't fire 2 shots instantaneously, and if you try to perpetuate the gun it won't fire a doubleshot when you actually want it to fire the next single cycle.

Requiring multiple mouse clicks to fire double shots should be reserved for a different thread, as it's unrelated to this thread. Please create a new suggestions thread if you wish to discuss the merits of requiring multiple clicks to fire doubleshots... thanks