16 replies to this topic

[New Day]

It only pushes you to 90% heat. It should be able to kill you, because it's you know... lava. I think PGI got lazy (again) and just piggy backed the lava on the flamer code and just changed the effect.

[Alcatraz968]

If you listen closely, its also sounds like water. Most likely based off the code from Forest Colony's river.

[Screech]

I actually dread the day that flamers become useful.

[WhiteRabbit]

yeah make it hotter...and make every patch of lava work as lava, i had a really hard time finding a place to test it....(well right until i jumped down in that center structure)

[PanzerMagier]

..And then they said:"Make lava and flamers useful!"
*The boardroom filled developers erupts with laughter*

[Tice Daurus]

I tested it out on the map, and ran around putting myself directly into the lava. I had to sit for 5-10 seconds to see any type of damage which was slight. Now I understand that certain steel can resist melting for a while, but lava is about 650 Celsius to 1200 Celsius, which is approximately some 1500-3000 degrees Fahrenheit. Treated Steel melts at 2000 degrees. That mean, step in lava, and the damage should be a lot quicker and a lot more substantial.
And if you fall into the center of that active volcano...you should be completely submerged suffering damage all over the place. It should be about level 3 in the center, level 2 surrounding the middle and level 1 around the outer edges and them work it's way up at say a 20-25 percent grade.

[FupDup]

[Tice Daurus]

FupDup, on 30 July 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Damn skippy, we should know not to touch it. But the effects for the lava map are not severe enough.

[verybad]

NamesAreStupid, on 30 July 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

It only pushes you to 90% heat. It should be able to kill you, because it's you know... lava. I think PGI got lazy (again) and just piggy backed the lava on the flamer code and just changed the effect.

If you can shut mechs down with lava then it leads to griefing. (eg several plaerys with multiple flamers on Jenners) People get shut down, can't fight back or even run away, and rage quit. Flamers need to be useful, but not that kind of useful.Trust me, that wouldn't be a good thing.

[Vanguard319]

Tice Daurus, on 30 July 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

I tested it out on the map, and ran around putting myself directly into the lava. I had to sit for 5-10 seconds to see any type of damage which was slight. Now I understand that certain steel can resist melting for a while, but lava is about 650 Celsius to 1200 Celsius, which is approximately some 1500-3000 degrees Fahrenheit. Treated Steel melts at 2000 degrees. That mean, step in lava, and the damage should be a lot quicker and a lot more substantial.
And if you fall into the center of that active volcano...you should be completely submerged suffering damage all over the place. It should be about level 3 in the center, level 2 surrounding the middle and level 1 around the outer edges and them work it's way up at say a 20-25 percent grade.

I would point out that armor is generally made out of materials much stronger than steel, usually some type of cermet, which has the properties of both ceramics (extreme hardness and heat resistance) and metals (malleability). In addition, FF armor in the BT universe also has a layer of foamed aluminium, which has exceptional insulation against heat, as well as energy absorption. Finally, the internal structure is made of Titanium, one of the most heat resistant metals on the periodic table. A mech surviving in lava isn't as far fetched as you seem to think.

[Stoicblitzer]

Edited by Stoicblitzer, 30 July 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[New Day]

verybad, on 30 July 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

If you can shut mechs down with lava then it leads to griefing. (eg several plaerys with multiple flamers on Jenners) People get shut down, can't fight back or even run away, and rage quit. Flamers need to be useful, but not that kind of useful.Trust me, that wouldn't be a good thing.

You mean like being hit by 60 chainfired LRMs?

First of all my point was they should buff lava. The flamers where simply used as a comparison. Secondly the flamers do need a buff. They can still have a hard cap of 90% but they should bring you up there much much quicker. The simplest way to do that would be to make them a burst weapon.

Also I saw the flamer stunlock in CB and I wouldn't really mind it. It's amazing really. They nerfed flamers, what half a year ago and they are still useless.

Finally, lava should be able to kill you. I'd rather it do direct damage than overheat damage. Maybe exponentially increasing damage? That add some tension to trying to get the **** out off there. Also keep the heat at 90%.

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 30 July 2013 - 05:11 PM.

[Utilyan]

What I think they should do is make flamers a beam version of a smoke bomb so when it shoots ground it makes a smoke grenade cloud and when it hits water a big steam cloud.

What they could also do is make where it shoots behave a like a landmine so your mech could have like 4 burning patches per flamer at one time..... no damage just a small rise of heat.

[Zordicron]

What they should do, is make lava(and maybe flamers) do a 5% chance to crit an internal for every dmg tick or whatever to the mech parts in contact. Ammo in the legs anyone? UUUHHH, putting LRM missiles in your legs and then walking out into lava sound good?

[ManDaisy]

I totally agree. The lava is weak sauce. I'm more scared of out of bounds.

[Tice Daurus]

Vanguard319, on 30 July 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

I would point out that armor is generally made out of materials much stronger than steel, usually some type of cermet, which has the properties of both ceramics (extreme hardness and heat resistance) and metals (malleability). In addition, FF armor in the BT universe also has a layer of foamed aluminium, which has exceptional insulation against heat, as well as energy absorption. Finally, the internal structure is made of Titanium, one of the most heat resistant metals on the periodic table. A mech surviving in lava isn't as far fetched as you seem to think.

Ok I could see that, however the armor we're running in is standard armor, not ferro-fibrous. And given the fact that this is specially made armor from the 31st century, I could see the heat resistant properties. However, falling directly into the middle of the volcano and not sinking in that amount of volume of lava? And you're walking on top of it? That lava should be similar to liquidity of water to a 100 ton mech if it fell in and sink like stone until it hit rock it could stand on.

And I still think damage could be greater. Also, say you're in the middle of the volcano and you do a Coolant Flush 18? Wouldn't I see a crapload of steam from the coolant being flushed making it hard to see? And when you leave the lava, wouldn't the lava harden around the mech and restrict movement for a time until it could free it's joints if you sunk into it? Look, I love PGI for getting us a new map, so thank you PGI. But it's like the people at PGI are conveniently ignoring some physical properties of the lava itself. Not to mention actuators freezing up and becoming immobile, or locking up causing movement restrictions?

Edited by Tice Daurus, 30 July 2013 - 08:03 PM.

[Wesxander]

Actually if you read some the very old non reprint 3025 tech manuals etc. There is comment also about this in the Davion handbook. That the armor from battletech is steel alloy composite with diamond properties. Makes the steel less conductive to heat and electrical strikes while increasing density as well. Supposedly this is the reason the tanks of the era are not as strong a battlemechs they lack the mech armor, and use old school steel armor as cheap knock off replacement.