12 replies to this topic

[Sprouticus]

scrap this, better numbers below



AC20 =((0.58*0)+(0.25*20)+(0.14*40)+(0.02*60) *0.15) = average of 1.77 extra dmg or 8% more damage
You can extrapolate for all AC's, PPC, and gauss, and even missiles.


For lasers
Assuming this graph is correct (here) you have 10 ticks per shot. That makes the numbers fairly easy

Large Laser does 9 dmg, and 10 ticks for 0.9 dmg/tick
Large laser =(((0.58*0)+(0.25*0.9)+(0.14*1.8)+(0.02*2.7)) *0.15) = 0.07965 per hit
If you hit with all 10 ticks on an open panel, you could expect to do 0.7965 extra dmg or 8% more dmg.


For mg's, lbx and flamers the iHP has a multiplier (different for each weapon)

Per this site (here)

flamers do 0.44 per crit
lbx does 2 per crit
machine guns do 1.25 per crit


mg = =(((0.58*0)+(0.39*1.25)+(0.22*2.5)+(0.05*3.75)) *0.15)= 0.18375 extra damage per shot into an open panel. You gain roughly 283% more dmg to internals
lbx = (((0.58*0)+(0.39*2)+(0.22*4)+(0.05*6)) *0.15)= 0.294 extra damage per pellet that hits an open panel. you gain 29% more in damage to internals. .
flamer = =(((0.58*0)+(0.39*0.44)+(0.22*0.88)+(0.05*1.32)) *0.15) = 0.06468 extra damage per shot to open panels. You gain 9.2% more dmg to internals



As you can see, the mg and lbx both gain significant damage from the change. The flamer and most non crit seeking weapons are in the 8-9% range.


EDIT : Updated numbers for mg.

Edited by Sprouticus, 08 August 2013 - 04:32 AM.

[Khobai]

Exactly the extra damage is entirely negligible. Nobody knows why PGI wasted their time on this... unless they had plans to increase internals. Which is what I think might be coming.

[Rascula]

Yeah it does seem thats what might be coming, the whole change is pointless without it.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Khobai, on 06 August 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Exactly the extra damage is entirely negligible. Nobody knows why PGI wasted their time on this... unless they had plans to increase internals. Which is what I think might be coming.

Yeah, ever since this plan was first announced that's been the only reasonable conclusion that I can see.

[Sprouticus]

I would not say negligible.

it is intended to make crit seeking weapons better, and it accomplishes this task. And due to the math (66% vs 40% chance of crit, and the dmg multiplier from crit seeking weapons), raising the % from say 15% to 20% give those weapons an arithmatic multiple over standard weapons.

They didnt want the % to be too high to start because it would make big weapons (PPC,ERPPC,gauss,AC20) more powerful. Which we DON'T need.

Edited by Sprouticus, 06 August 2013 - 01:34 PM.

[Deathlike]

So... a 40 pt alpha can effectively be 46 pt alpha when it wants to.

So, the fun cheese Highlander that can dish a 45 pt alpha, can also be a 51.75 alpha too.

FYI if your alpha shot hits the area in question at the same time and removes the external armor, there's a pretty good chance ANY residual damage dealt to the internal armor keeps the FULL damage to components (assuming, a crit is generated).

[Braggart]

something else to keep in mind.

weapons like the mg and flamer are low dps weapons, with higher crit chance and and the damage they deal on a crit is higher than what their regular damage is. This is a actually a huge dps increase for the crit based weapons.

an MG has 1.0 DPS. it fires 10 projectiles in that time, and each of them will likely crit for 1.25 against a component, and deal .19 or more extra damage to the internal structure. If all 10 rounds crit for minimum, you have an mg that does 2.9 dps, if you have several, you could chew out a section in no time. The MG is absolutely worthless against armor, but internals, that is going to be good dps.

[General Taskeen]

Braggart, on 06 August 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

The MG is absolutely worthless against armor, but internals, that is going to be good dps.

Which is funny, because its supposed to chew through armor.

[Braggart]

General Taskeen, on 06 August 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Which is funny, because its supposed to chew through armor.

Blame PGI.

A light with MGs is gonna ruin a heavy or assaults day quite fast now, leaving mediums the red headed step child again.


I feel bad that i sold my CDA-3C................................. 4 MGs and a large pulse laser.

Edited by Braggart, 06 August 2013 - 02:31 PM.

[PanzerFurrry]

Braggart, on 06 August 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Blame PGI.

A light with MGs is gonna ruin a heavy or assaults day quite fast now, leaving mediums the red headed step child again.

Sadly, you are mistaken. Based on my experience, machine guns are still highly unreliable regarding critical hits. You may get 3x crit that will damage that Gauss, but on average the damage done versus the time spent dealing damage (and facing the enemy) is still not worth it.
Sure, machine guns as auxiliary weapon, yes, but as as primary weapon to melt Atlases, no.

I'd prefer they would scrap the crit system and make something like a flat amount:
normal weapons: 1x damage to internals.
crit seaking weapons(mgs, lbx): 2x damage to internals.

That would make damage more consistent, because frankly, nobody likes RNG in games like these.

[Braggart]

PanzerFurrry, on 06 August 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Sadly, you are mistaken. Based on my experience, machine guns are still highly unreliable regarding critical hits. You may get 3x crit that will damage that Gauss, but on average the damage done versus the time spent dealing damage (and facing the enemy) is still not worth it.
Sure, machine guns as auxiliary weapon, yes, but as as primary weapon to melt Atlases, no.

I'd prefer they would scrap the crit system and make something like a flat amount:
normal weapons: 1x damage to internals.
crit seaking weapons(mgs, lbx): 2x damage to internals.

That would make damage more consistent, because frankly, nobody likes RNG in games like these.

which is exactly why its for light mechs, where they can chew through the rear armor, and then **** the internal structure. This was a huge buff to MG DPS, and i look forward to trying it when i get home.

[PanzerFurrry]

Braggart, on 06 August 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

which is exactly why its for light mechs, where they can chew through the rear armor, and then **** the internal structure. This was a huge buff to MG DPS, and i look forward to trying it when i get home.

Not really. Machine guns do not have have pinpoint convergence and damage will spread throughout the mech. Unless target is stationary, you can't *reliably* hit that damaged torso with an XL engine, the spray is way too big to make an accurate shot.

It is a buff to all weapons, not just crit seeking weapons, however buff to machine guns is minimal. They still have to remove armour before they hit before they crit. In the long run, they are still mediocre auxiliary weapon, not Atlas melting weapons.

[Braggart]

PanzerFurrry, on 06 August 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

Not really. Machine guns do not have have pinpoint convergence and damage will spread throughout the mech. Unless target is stationary, you can't *reliably* hit that damaged torso with an XL engine, the spray is way too big to make an accurate shot.

It is a buff to all weapons, not just crit seeking weapons, however buff to machine guns is minimal. They still have to remove armour before they hit before they crit. In the long run, they are still mediocre auxiliary weapon, not Atlas melting weapons.

dude. wtf. no one claims they are atlas melting weapons. Nothing a light mech can mount is atlas melting................. quit huffing for a moment and read.

It is perfectly easy for a light to stay behind an assault mech and tear out a torso, and when you factor the close range, yes mgs all hit the same torso section. You are quite mistaken on every count. If you are firing at 120 meters, then yes you have spread, but not at 30.