6 replies to this topic

[RogueGhost]

Many of us have been frustrated with people boating mechs with large alpha strikes, be it missiles, lasers, or ballistics. PGI has made many attempts to stop boating to encourage players to be flexible, and to keep a sense of tactics in the game.

In combating people boating they have instituted a heat scaling system where the more of one kind of weapon you fire, the higher your heat. Incorporating this type of system may help reduce high alpha builds, but it also directly conflicts with the canon of the game. Multiple mechs are designed from the beginning to boat weapons. One well known example is the Awesome AWS-8Q variant designed to have 3 PPC’s. Another mech that is a prime example (one we all desperately hope to see soon) is the Daishi/Dire Wolf. That mech is designed from the outset to have a large group of weapons. The default variant has 4X ER large lasers, and 4X medium pulse lasers. The current heat scaling system makes that mech essentially useless, one salvo would overheat it as it is a notoriously hot running mech.
PGI is certainly working very hard to develop a solution to the problem of boating that they can apply on a broad spectrum to fix the problem quickly. We all have seen how a broad spectrum solution has multiple negative impacts on the rest of the game.

I believe I have found a solution to the problem of boating. My idea will not only remove the heat scaling system that plagues all non-boaters, it will force players to rethink their high alpha loadouts. Players will once again have to use sound tactics and good strategy to win rather than just pack every weapon they can fit into a mech and pray they have more armor than the other guy.

The premise is this: Rather than increasing heat levels, let’s have an increase of reload time on missiles/ballistics and recharge rates of energy weapons. Before people start screaming think of the benefits. If a pilot chooses to boat they do so at their own risk, they will still be a powerful force to fight against, but that force is a double edged sword. Used strategically a mech boating weapons could be devastating, but used improperly they could lose the battle for your team.

Energy Weapons:
Say for every PPC over 2 you fire there is an additional second of cycle time added. The reactors powering mechs do not produce infinite amounts of power and so it stands to reason that if you fire high damage weapons they would take large amounts of energy. High heat=high energy. The concept works both ways. When you turn on the air conditioning in your car the headlights dim momentarily. They still illuminate the road but they dim until the car can make up for the sudden drain in power. Same concept here. If a mech fire 6 PPC’s then they might not overheat anymore, but the recharge time would make their rate of fire ridiculously low. 2X PPC’s recharge in 4 seconds. 6 PPC’s would take 8 seconds to recharge, double the time! If a pilot was extremely accurate they would be able to take down a charging mech, but if they missed they would be helpless. The same scale could be individually applied to each class of weapon. Say a rough scale of .75 for large, .5 for medium and .25 for small lasers over a certain amount of each class. Heat would be the same as it is without the new scaling but if a player wants to fire all 4 of their large lasers they better make sure they have distance from the enemy or they might be defenseless for a certain amount of time. Players would need to coordinate and be strategic in what weapon systems are used.

Missiles:
Say that a mech is boating missiles, they have 40 missile tubes firing a salvo of 40 missiles. The reload time is currently 4.75 seconds for the missile reloads to drop into the tubes. Say that a player added in another LRM 20. That is another 20 missiles having to cycle from the reload racks into the tubes, having more missiles needing to be loaded would take longer, so let’s assume it takes another second and a half for each additional 20 missiles needing to be reloaded. Rather than a player launching a salvo of 60 missiles 4.75 seconds apart they would be fired at a rate of 6.25 seconds. A powerful salvo of missiles without a doubt, but 6 seconds allows a mech to close with a slow missile boat or to hide behind a building. 60 missiles firing at you is a scary thing in a fight, but it’s the second and third salvos that typically get you. Running flat out most mechs can close the range to a missile boat in under 30 seconds. 30 seconds with the current system is a whopping 6 salvos. The new system would make that 4 salvos. Missile boats would need to be strategically placed, they would be very strong, they would rarely overheat but they would be vulnerable if not protected properly.

Ballistics:
Each ballistic weapon in the world, not just this game have certain rates of fire which cannot be exceeded. Even for two weapons that have identical fire rated the reload times of each can be different based on the reloading mechanism involved. With some exceptions the rule is usually the smaller the projectiles involved, the faster the reloading is accomplished. An AC/2 round weighs roughly 27 pounds based on weight to ammunition total per ton. A reloading mechanism can move those rounds much faster than an AC/5 which weighs about 67 pounds each. These totals correspond roughly with fire rate. An AC/2 shoots about 3 times as fast as an AC/5. Moving up to larger weapons that are commonly boated, an AC/20 round weighs 285 pounds each, and they take 4 seconds each to reload. Having 2 AC/20’s trying to reload at the same time would take much longer, so having it take an additional 2 seconds for each AC/20 on a mech over 1 would force players to be smart in their game play. Charging into an enemy with a 4 second and 40 damage salvo is dangerous but possible. Charging at an enemy with a 6 second reload time for the same damage is suicide.
Gauss rifles are extremely powerful, and their ammunition weighs 200 pounds each, they reload at 4 seconds as well. If their reload time was the same for a dual AC/20 mech they would still be potent fighters, but not a brawler that just anybody could use. It would take a lot more skill and strategy to try and brawl with extremely fragile weapons with a 6 second reload rate. In general, the faster a system reloads the more of a chance of a jam, such as what happens with UAC/5’s.

This system I am suggesting would certainly take some tweaking but could be applied without extreme problems on a broad scale to the entire game. No this concept is not canon, but neither is the heat scaling. This system would still force a pilot to watch their heat levels, but slower cycle rates for boating weapons would make pilots focus on tactical battles more than brawls.

[FupDup]

I don't think we need to add specific penalties for boating other than balancing the individual weapons. When you boat a weapon, you magnify both the strengths and weaknesses of that weapon. For instance, an LRM boat is easily countered by getting within 180m or hillhumping it at range. An SRM boat is unable to defend itself outside of 270m. Laser boats can be countered by hillhumping (don't stay exposed long enough to receive the full beam duration) or torso twisting to spread out their damage. This list goes on and on.

Boating in and of itself is not evil. If the individual weapons have counters, then a mech boating that weapon will be wide open and helpless against that counter. Certain weapons like PPCs just need clear and distinctive weaknesses to exploit. The advantage of mixed builds is that they lack a specific counter at the downside of being less specialized.

Edited by FupDup, 07 August 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[RogueGhost]

FupDup, on 07 August 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

I don't think we need to add specific penalties for boating other than balancing the individual weapons. When you boat a weapon, you magnify both the strengths and weaknesses of that weapon. For instance, an LRM boat is easily countered by getting within 180m or hillhumping it at range. An SRM boat is unable to defend itself outside of 270m. Laser boats can be countered by hillhumping (don't stay exposed long enough to receive the full beam duration) or torso twisting to spread out their damage. This list goes on and on.

Boating in and of itself is not evil. If the individual weapons have counters, then a mech boating that weapon will be wide open and helpless against that counter. Certain weapons like PPCs just need clear and distinctive weaknesses to exploit. The advantage of mixed builds is that they lack a specific counter at the downside of being less specialized.

I do not care so much about boating being either bad or good, i am simply suggesting this as an alternative to the current penalties assigned to boating. Certain mechs are designed to boat certain weapons. The supernova i believe was designed to run 6 ER large lasers. with the heat scaling penalties 1 alpha would make that mech explode.

[FupDup]

RogueGhost, on 07 August 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

I do not care so much about boating being either bad or good, i am simply suggesting this as an alternative to the current penalties assigned to boating.

Oh, okay then. That clears things up.

RogueGhost, on 07 August 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

Certain mechs are designed to boat certain weapons. The supernova i believe was designed to run 6 ER large lasers. with the heat scaling penalties 1 alpha would make that mech explode.

That thing would pretty much explode even without heat scaling. Even in TT, its 26 DHS meant it could only alpha three times before shutting down (ERLL generates 12 heat in TT, 52 heat dissipated compared to 72 heat generated per alpha)...and TT has much better cooling than MWO does (heat neutral mechs are completely possible and common). Cooling in MWO is waaay too slow.

Edited by FupDup, 07 August 2013 - 09:31 AM.

[AnnoyingCat]

still not enough fix for you?

[Hisashi No Oni]

The real answer is not to change the game dynamics with penalties to players for doing the what anyone would do with Mech design. The should be a more intelligent, robust and complex hard point system. One that would control the placement of same type weapon systems. A program that locks out same weapon systems as more are installed on the Mech. Also unique hard points for unique Mechs like the Hunchback laser boat and other Mechs like the Awesome that could not be made otherwise. If they dont do something like this the Clan Mechs will never happen with such penalties as they have now.

[RogueGhost]

Hisashi No Oni, on 07 August 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

The real answer is not to change the game dynamics with penalties to players for doing the what anyone would do with Mech design. The should be a more intelligent, robust and complex hard point system. One that would control the placement of same type weapon systems. A program that locks out same weapon systems as more are installed on the Mech. Also unique hard points for unique Mechs like the Hunchback laser boat and other Mechs like the Awesome that could not be made otherwise. If they dont do something like this the Clan Mechs will never happen with such penalties as they have now.

I wholeheartedly agree that the solution is not to change the game dynamic, hardpoints need to be unique and balanced between the mechs. I am offering my idea simply as (i think) a better alternative to heat penalties. I believe my system would actually be more flexible than the current system is as it currently stands.