151 replies to this topic

[Monky]

***** UPDATE ON POSSIBLE FIX FOR ALL ISSUES *****


OK, here we go on thoughts/examples of a 3rd person view remake

Objectives;

1. Counter 'around the corner' peaking when in 3PV
2. Counter 'over the top' peaking when in 3PV
3. Counter 'against a building but able to see' problem with 3PV + fix the distinctly different ray trace bug error
4. Make the mode more newbie friendly, and less exploitable by veteran/group players.
5. Enhance the SIM feel of 3PV so it feels more like a drone and less like a floating god-eye

Here is a video rundown of the problems;

http://www.twitch.tv...nky/b/450976464

Here is the screenshot with the reduced FOV that I mentioned

Spoiler

Here's screenshots of high FOV + multiple monitors + 3PV vs 1PV borrowed from another post, which would be fixed by the above changes to 3PV

Spoiler

As seen here; http://mwomercs.com/...e-those-queues/

Here are examples on river city which are (seemingly) not ray tracing errors, collected half-assedly over 45 minutes (i got up for a sandwich and took a break to watch a youtube video or three) ;


VIDEO OF 3PV BEING USED FOR JUMP SNIPING

Spoiler

alrighty, here we go;

http://www.twitch.tv...nky/b/449788034

Disclaimer; I am not a pro player and I don't consider myself a good sniper, I'm much better with DPS weapons like the AC5/AC2, lasers, etc. In this video I am not posting it to demonstrate or brag about skill. Anyone who wants to call that into question can sit on something sharp as this is not the point.

PICTURE EVIDENCE OF BOTH RAY TRACE AND NON RAY TRACE OVERLOOKS

Spoiler

Overlook of Sigma
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of Gamma and common approach to Theta
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of Kappa and approaches to Gamma
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Another Overlook of Kappa and approaches to Gamma
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of Theta and wide field view of multiple paths
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Nearly identical spot as above
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of Epsilon and approach to Gamma (I'm on a BOAT!)
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

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Overlook of Gamma close in (other warehouse next to it has the same situation)
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of Theta, Tower Island, and most of water approach to Sigma
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of Gamma
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of Sigma close in
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of Kappa general area and entries/exits
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Switched around turns into overlook of approaches to Sigma from Tower Island, epsilon, and ocean
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of Sigma and approach to Sigma from Lower City
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of entries/exits to Kappa, partial overlook of Theta and surrounding area
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of Kappa
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of Kappa close in
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of Sigma and approaches to Sigma
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Similar to above, but more limited
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of Kappa
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of approach to Gamma and partial Kappa
1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Overlook of approach to Gamma

1PV

Spoiler

3PV

Spoiler

Now, I can't guarantee that absolutely NONE of these involve any ray trace fails, because I don't know exactly how the ray traces interact with mech orientation and camera position, however it seems pretty intuitive that the ray trace bug involves the camera suddenly popping 'up and out' when aiming to the lowest possible level with the controls while snug against something, and that situation occurred 0% of the time in any of these shots. The majority of them did not even require special positioning or camera angles. I am going to link this in the 3PV thread for feedback however due to its size I made it its own thread for digestibility.

Edited by Monky, 29 August 2013 - 10:05 PM.

[StandingCow]

I am apparently out of likes... but I will fix that once my quota returns!

[Monky]

Then I will give one for you in the meantime

[Distemper]

Thanks for taking the time to put together this post, highlights the issue perfectly.

[arkani]

PIGGY will say :
"Working has intended"

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

they need to separate the ques for 3pv, I am not even gonna waste my bandwidth on the update until they do, i view 3pv as a cheat for those very reasons, I use to play socom and it was a 3pv, and the exploits were unbearable...

[Chavette]

Peekaboo I C JU, on 21 August 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

they need to separate the ques for 3pv, I am not even gonna waste my bandwidth on the update until they do, i view 3pv as a cheat for those very reasons, I use to play socom and it was a 3pv, and the exploits were unbearable...

No need to separate. Just make your choice of view locked in for the matches' length

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

Chavette, on 21 August 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

No need to separate. Just make your choice of view locked in for the matches' length

that would still leave us in the game with people using what is in my opinion a unfair exploit.....i don't want to even be in the match with these players

Edited by Peekaboo I C JU, 21 August 2013 - 01:58 AM.

[Huge]

Or just ******* not shove it down our throats and remove it all together and actually work on making the game functional and with half the content they promised a year ago.

[Monky]

Distemper, on 21 August 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:

Thanks for taking the time to put together this post, highlights the issue perfectly.

You're welcome. I honestly think River City is the most forgiving map for 3PV too, aside from viewing side streets w/o exposing yourself, as it's so small it is hard to leverage the scouting. However the best will always push it to the razor's edge.

[Peter von Danzig]

Yay, another exploit ingame

These pics show perfectly why there should be NO 3PV. I know what MWO will look like in two weeks: 2 ppc, 1 gauss victors toggling between 1PV and 3PV.

I never thought this could happen (that fast) but this game is getting worse every patch :/

[Ensaine]

Yep... agree totally.....

1PV



and 3PV



Nuff Said

[Mizore]

Especially in competetive 12 vs 12 matches, concerning "scouting" 3PV will surely be abused a lot!

For me that's a no go and thus I'll stay away from competetive 12 vs 12 (e.g. tournaments) until there's a 1PV-only solution.

Edited by Mizore, 24 August 2013 - 02:54 AM.

[Rippthrough]

Ah, that made me laugh, one map, few minutes of testing the obvious points of use, PGI fails hard again.

Good work, have a like.
Personally I did a little testing on terra therma and there's spots all over the map where you can use it to look over hills and around corners.
Yet again it seems like the 'internal testing team' doesn't actually do any testing.

Edited by Rippthrough, 21 August 2013 - 05:11 AM.

[VagGR]

hey Paul, look!!! we found you another bug... the whole river city map is a huge bug!! arent we the greatest community ever!? no wonder why you keep our wishing list as your top priority!! keep up the good work

[Rippthrough]

Well, since Monky has done such a good job, this might be the thread to put all the rest of the spots in for every other map if he's fine with that?

I've a feeling it'll be a long thread.

[nehebkau]

Given what you have shown, I can see how 3rd person could be used to gain an advantage. I think the point that PGI would make is that it is not an unfair advantage because everyone has access to it. That being said, I think some changes should be made to what you see when in 3rd person.

There should be no HUD information in 3rd person, no targeting ret, no mech status, no game status and no hit indications. Also, I think the mini-cam should be attackable and once destroyed (like a module) not useable.

[DeadlyNerd]

nehebkau, on 21 August 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

Given what you have shown, I can see how 3rd person could be used to gain an advantage. I think the point that PGI would make is that it is not an unfair advantage because everyone has access to it. That being said, I think some changes should be made to what you see when in 3rd person.

There should be no HUD information in 3rd person, no targeting ret, no mech status, no game status and no hit indications. Also, I think the mini-cam should be attackable and once destroyed (like a module) not useable.

You could still change your view just to check behind cover. Don't need the HUD to do that.
As for a destructible drone. Often 3PV is used to peek above ridges, in which case your drone cannot be seen by the enemy that's on lower ground.

[Tragos]

Forced camera after choosing wouldn't change anything, since 3rd person is perfectly viable for most scouts. Press B if you need a map.

Just enable the PROMISED 1pv queue.

[Monky]

Rippthrough, on 21 August 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Well, since Monky has done such a good job, this might be the thread to put all the rest of the spots in for every other map if he's fine with that?

I've a feeling it'll be a long thread.

Go for it, anyone who wants more to add and has maybe 30 minutes to poke around can easily find tons of spots, just be sure it's not the 'pop up and out' camera bug with ray trace