19 replies to this topic

[Brazo Izquierdo de Muerte]

I say leave the Guass and the ppc alone. the whole delay thing is not needed, It works good leave it alone. if you want to make the guass rifle have a min range thats fine but having to charge is one more PITA that is not needed. If its not broke dont fix it, the only weapon that charges at least in the BT univers as far as im aware is a bombast laser (feel free to correct me if im wrong).


And also lets think about the whole as staying as close to BT canon as we can. Which is what PGI them selves have stated they would TRY to do. So maybe take a varient of a mech out. But stop takeing things that are supposed to work one way and then making them work in away that is not how they are supposed to work.

Esp when these weapons were not made in BT to fire/work this way. do you really think that a mech would be made to have a delay in its shots? really? im thinking id want my mech and my pilot to have the easyest possible way to use weapons.

Point and shoot and worrie about what my enemy is doing, Not find out where my target is start charging then when im done charging my target ran behind a hill.. Oh darn I lost my charge, NO! wait there he is again start charging again...... rinse and repeat you get the Idea.

Or maybe think about what is gonna happen before you release a new mech chassie and then nerf/boost what ever weapons your gonna nerf/boost and then maybe we wont have this kind of problem.

Or we could get really crazy and maybe not release any thing for a bit then maybe all at once relase all the weapons like all versions of LBX, ULTRA, Streaks(2,4,6) MRM's X Pulse lasers, Bombast lasers, Variable Speed Pulse Laser , Heavy lasers, Snub Nose PPC, Binary Lasers, Heavy PPC, Heavy Guass Rifle, Rotary Auto Cannon's, Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle's, Arrow IV's, MML's and about 40 or 50 or so other weapons that i have not listed. Then maybe we would not be seeing the same builds over and over and over and over.

Think about the 5 Streak SRM 6 Cata. Not fun is it? Or maybe the Arrow IV, boat how long untill those get changed to stop them from being boated?
Or maybe the Ultra AC 20 or the Streak LRM 20? or maybe the HAG 40 boat. (dont think it wont happen)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bane and yeah thats a 10 ultra AC 2 mech thats canon.


Im just saying maybe some planning should happen before we decied to nerf what ever weapon/ mech is being used the most.

And before you tell me that PPC need a charge time, what do you think it is the weapons are doing after you fire? THERE RECHARGING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is ALREADY AUTOMATIC, PPC do it Guass capacitors do it, Lasers do it. This makes about as much sence as you haveing to press the button toget your Auto Cannon to fire then having to press the same button AGAIN to have it reaload it self, then press Again to fire the next round ( Never mind all the time this has taken my target is now gone).

It is very simply pain in the butt that IS NOT needed or wanted.

Edited by Alisyn Chaynes, 25 August 2013 - 09:13 PM.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

I don't want the gauss charge, but I want gauss minimum range even less. Logically it makes no sense for a supersonic slug to do 0 damage at point blank range, and gameplay wise it will turn dual gauss mechs into light fodder. The charge mechanic I can at least work around on a wing and a prayer.

[Fallengrace]

If you are running only dual gause you are light fodder anyways. Build a balanced mech. Limit the hard point space like in MWT. Dont put a charge on a balistic wep that we are not complaining about. For once actually listen to the players that have been here from the closed beta. That's when the game was the most fun.

[xenoglyph]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 25 August 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

I don't want the gauss charge, but I want gauss minimum range even less. Logically it makes no sense for a supersonic slug to do 0 damage at point blank range, and gameplay wise it will turn dual gauss mechs into light fodder. The charge mechanic I can at least work around on a wing and a prayer.

Did it ever occur to you that dual gauss mechs SHOULD be light fodder if they neglect to bring backup weapons? Minimum range is a much smarter (and easier to implement) game design choice in my opinion. It indirectly buffs real brawling weapons while leaving it as a potent sniper/mid-range weapon.

[Roughneck45]

Sniping weapons need to have a lower dps than brawling weapons. Everyone takes PPC's because they do just fine in a brawl and give you ranged punch too.

Make the recycle times for the gauss and PPC 6 seconds. You still get your sniping burst damage, but now you will actually lose a brawl instead of only losing face humping fights.

We don't need a desync, or any other silly mechanic. Balance them with stats already in game.

[akpavker]

gauss charge = deaht of gauss......no 1 will use them leaving pgi having to either buff them or put them back the way they were.
first thing ill do after the patch is throw my gauss in the bin and equip a ac10 like most people will.

im guessing the next thing to happen will be AC's geting a charge up nerf when the noobs realise there getting a$$ kicked buy 2 ppc/ac10!!!

[Hexenhammer]

I remember when AC's had a fire delay in closed beta and it was a nightmare! You'd try to lead your target and when you shot the round would go wide because the game thought you were aiming at the ground and not the mech you were trying to hit.


If the delay is put it in will add another needless layer of complexity to an already needlessly complex game; ghost heat. variable weapon maxes, hit registry, poor mech geometry..

Also it will promote the use of Macros. Players will just add a delay to an alpha strike macro and keep on sniping. Or try to at least.

Edited by Hexenhammer, 25 August 2013 - 09:49 PM.

[xenoglyph]

Hexenhammer, on 25 August 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

Also it will promote the use of Macros. Players will just add a delay to an alpha strike macro and keep on sniping. Or try to at least.

Macro template already in my sig. I could even cancel the button up macro automatically if the Gauss charge up time expired.

Edited by xenoglyph, 25 August 2013 - 09:53 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Hexenhammer, on 25 August 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

I remember when AC's had a fire delay in closed beta and it was a nightmare! You'd try to lead your target and when you shot the round would go wide because the game thought you were aiming at the ground and not the mech you were trying to hit.


If the delay is put it in will add another needless layer of complexity to an already needlessly complex game. Ghost heat. Variable weapon maxes. Delayed shots. Hit registry.

Also it will promote the use of Macros. Players will just add a delay to an alpha strike macro and keep on sniping. Or try to at least.

I kind of think of it as a Bombast laser now...Click and hold for less than a second, then let go. Good players will be able to hold the lead and choose when to fire. It's not delayed at all, and you have 1.25 second to adjust your aim. Like they said, it's forcing the Gauss to play a specific role of long-range sniping - where it should be.

I think it's a much better change than making it actually delayed from PPC fire. And besides, PPC and gauss jumpsnipers can still exist, but you need to charge the gauss while jumpjetting, then click your PPC's and let go of your gauss trigger. It's harder to do, but I guess we'll see how hard it is to do.

I just hope that macro's don't totally make this whole thing moot, like you said.[Edit] Too late I guess.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 25 August 2013 - 09:55 PM.

[Roadbuster]

Who uses Gauss now that UAC5 is wrecking mechs in fast forward mode?

[Profiteer]

I'll wait to test, but my prediction is that any change to the firing mechanic will make the weapon too clumsy to use effectively in the heat of combat.

I'm getting really tired of all the nerfs. I hope PGI realize that if the gauss is neutered the AC-10 will take it's place, along with extra heat sinks/ammo/armor with the spare 3 tons.

Hard point restrictions would have solved all this {Scrap} a long time ago.

[Huntsman]

Roadbuster, on 25 August 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Who uses Gauss now that UAC5 is wrecking mechs in fast forward mode?

You can expect to see dakka rule the roost once the PPC/gauss combo disappears. In fact, to bolster this, if 730 does become the 12 man tonnage limit (big "if" there) then we can easily roll 10 Jagers as part of our drop composition with a bit of tonnage left over for a couple of lighter mechs.

[Naja]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 25 August 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

I don't want the gauss charge, but I want gauss minimum range even less. Logically it makes no sense for a supersonic slug to do 0 damage at point blank range, and gameplay wise it will turn dual gauss mechs into light fodder. The charge mechanic I can at least work around on a wing and a prayer.

It doesn't make sense for a non explosive slug to have a minimum range period. The slug will be moving at it's terminal speed as it leaves the cannon, and since it requires no arming time, will cause maximum damage at point blank range (assuming there's no round tumble, if there was tumble it would cause less, but still significant damage at close range)

Edited by Naja, 25 August 2013 - 10:29 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

I would almost like to see both PPC and Gauss get the charge timer.

Would make sense, then we could do away with the stupid PPC minimum range as well.

[White Bear 84]

PGI - Suggestion, do not change something that works fine, to fix something else that is broken

[Roadbuster]

Huntsman, on 25 August 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

You can expect to see dakka rule the roost once the PPC/gauss combo disappears. In fact, to bolster this, if 730 does become the 12 man tonnage limit (big "if" there) then we can easily roll 10 Jagers as part of our drop composition with a bit of tonnage left over for a couple of lighter mechs.

It's already happening. More than 50% of the Atlas, Victors, Cataphracts, Jagermechs and Highlanders I see run double or tripple UAC5. The rest is PPC+Gauss and a few of them play around with LB10X.
I don't have a problem with people using the UAC and I agree that the previous jamrate was a joke, but if an assault mech gets destroyed in a matter of seconds by 2-3 UAC5 the buff was too big.

[Carrioncrows]

Well the only thing that keeps Gauss in check right now is how fragile it is and it's ammo pop.

It's a 1 heat weapon to do 15 damage in one location in one hit.

it is the most popular Ballistic weapon by far, even with the new UAC5 craziness.

So yeah a little bit of a soft break is decent.

[Dragonkindred]

How about we stop messing with things that work as intended and start fixing something else...

Maybe the lock ups and CTD that keep messing with peoples days?

Or bad hit boxes and HSR???

[Roadbuster]

Dragonkindred, on 26 August 2013 - 12:40 AM, said:

How about we stop messing with things that work as intended and start fixing something else...

Maybe the lock ups and CTD that keep messing with peoples days?

Or bad hit boxes and HSR???

Different teams working on different things.
HSR, hitboxes and CTD issues get solved by the trainee with his Comodore in the cellar.

[Lorcan Lladd]

Should it be implemented successfully, the proposed charge mechanic for Gauss Rifles would only increase the gap between skilled players or macro users and regular players - should the implementation be unsuccessful, it will just make Gauss such a horrible and ineffective weapon that no one will even consider using them.

As the popular companion and alternative to the Gauss Rifle is the PPC, I think we all know what would be the result of a Gauss nerf...

Spoiler

If PGI really wants to balance the weapons in MWO (and by that I mean make them all suck equally) they need to either reduce the ability which the PPC possesses to deal highly focused damage or increase the damage caused by Lasers and other similar, less accurate weapons.
In the current state of the game, PPCs (combined with Gauss) are still a little bit too strong, but a nerf of this magnitude would be overkill, especially considering how Gauss isn't truly the cause of the problem - the PPC is.