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3Pv As Module


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Poll: Good idea or bad idea (20 member(s) have cast votes)

Is this a good or bad change for 3PV

  1. Good Idea (11 votes [55.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 55.00%

  2. Neutral - I love/hate 3PV as is (2 votes [10.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  3. Bad Idea (7 votes [35.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.00%

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#1 LordSkippy

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 03:07 PM

Purpose
To give new players access to third person view, while making it a trade off with other modules as the player gains experience and learns the ropes.

Acquiring The Module
Since new players are initially in trial mechs, they have no ability to equip a module. So, the 3PV module will need to come equipped on all trial mechs. Preferably, it only comes equipped on trial mechs. Players should receive a free 3PV module as a new player or cadet reward, with current players receiving a free 3PV module. This way, every player has at least one module to equip on their owned mechs. Additional modules will cost C-bills.

Due to limitations that may exist in the game engine, in order for trial mechs to have the module equipped, they may need to come as standard equipment on all mechs. Again, this is not the preferred solution, but if it is the case, then the module will need to come as standard equipment on all mechs. Current players should then receive a 3PV module for each owned mech.

The option to start in third person should remain. If the player has the option turned on, but no 3PV module, then the player starts in first person.

How The Module Works
There are four variables that can be tweaked for balancing, two (X and Y) for the module itself and two (I and J) for optional GXP pilot skills. The number listed in parenthesis after the variable is the suggested value.

3PV Module:
Number of drones per module: X(3)
Drones destructable: Yes
Time between drone destruction and next usable drone: Y(30) seconds

Each drone is destructible, but cannot be targeted. LRMs and SSRMs should not be able to shoot at the drones, but direct fire weapons (lasers, ballistics, and SRMs) can fire at the drones. Drones should be able to survive some damage, i.e. one small laser hit won't destroy it, but multiple hits will.) When a drone is destroyed, the player is switched back into first person with a similar delay as normal. The player should receive a warning during this delay that their drone was destroyed. The player will need to wait Y seconds until they can launch their next drone and return to third person. The player can do this until all X drones are used.

Additionally, there should be visual and/or audio cues that drones are available for use, and also when third person view is not available. The is especially true when the player is attempting to access third person view after all their drones have been destroyed.

Optional GXP pilot skills:
Additional Drones: I(3) additional drones are available per module
Decrease Drone Start up Time: Time to next usable drone after a drone is destroyed lowered by J(10) seconds.

These GXP pilot skills can have additional levels, but the values of I and J will need to be adjusted accordingly.

What this does

The gives everyone the ability to use 3PV, but at an additional cost as you progress in skill and more modules become available.

Since beginning players do not have any modules available for use, this also introduces them to the concept early in their mechwarrior careers. As they acquire more modules, they are given the choice of continuing to use 3PV or to stay in first person and use other modules.

This also adds risk to using 3PV to "ridge peek", since the drone can be shot down and each player has a limited number of drones. Also, the Y seconds of delay to the next usable drone gives the opponents time to change positions.

#2 Bendak

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 03:22 PM

I'd say yes to a 5 slot module for 3PV but other than that no thanks!

#3 Five by Five

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:52 PM

I would add to this that, when a drone is destroyed, it applies a set amount of internal damage to the cockpit, so that if enough drones are destroyed, you lose the cockpit (die).

Since I would assume the drone will have a health value of around 2 to 3, I'd agree that the drone itself not be targetable. However, I would not exempt the drone from taking damage from LBX, SRMs, Streaks, or LRMs should they hit it (LRM's should be deadly to a drone, due to the missile arc, and pilots that make extensive use of the drone would learn to retract the drone when LRMs are incoming). Also, I believe a critical point is to rework the Line of Site rules so that if a drone is visible, LOS rules are applied as if the mech were also visible.

#4 LordSkippy

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 03:55 AM

View PostFive by Five, on 28 August 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

I would add to this that, when a drone is destroyed, it applies a set amount of internal damage to the cockpit, so that if enough drones are destroyed, you lose the cockpit (die).


I like that idea, gives it more risk.

View PostFive by Five, on 28 August 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

However, I would not exempt the drone from taking damage from LBX, SRMs, Streaks, or LRMs should they hit it (LRM's should be deadly to a drone


If the path of the LRMs, or other weapons, happen to intersect with the drone, then the drone should be damaged by them. The main point of my description of not being target-able, was that you could not lock onto the drone from LRMs or Streaks specific to destroy the drone. Incidental damage would still apply.

View PostFive by Five, on 28 August 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Also, I believe a critical point is to rework the Line of Site rules so that if a drone is visible, LOS rules are applied as if the mech were also visible.


I like this idea also. Allow the mech using 3PV to ridge peek be target-able by LRMs, even though only the drone is visible. Again, ads risk.

#5 Firewuff

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:55 PM

no. just no. Noobs are the ones that REALLY need 3PV to learn how to drive. Any good player will be better off in 1PV because there are too many disadvantages not to.

Use your 3PV to peak over a ridge, I'll know exactly where you are from THE BLINKING RED LIGHT over your head and still have my full hud and map to know what else is going on...... just saying.

#6 Torquemada

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:04 AM

Given that in a number of situations 3PV is proving to provide a significant tactical advantage then I think it is essential it gets moved to the role of a module. However, I'm not opposed to it being a consumable module or a permanent module, either way it will use up a module slot and so prevent the use of other tactical equipment.

As for new players, make all (or just trial) mechs come with this module. That way initial 3PV still provides the required learning curve to piloting a mech before moving to 1PV for most battles.

#7 LordSkippy

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 05:11 AM

View PostFirewuff, on 29 August 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

no. just no. Noobs are the ones that REALLY need 3PV to learn how to drive. Any good player will be better off in 1PV because there are too many disadvantages not to.

Use your 3PV to peak over a ridge, I'll know exactly where you are from THE BLINKING RED LIGHT over your head and still have my full hud and map to know what else is going on...... just saying.


I understand what you are saying, and agree that good players are going to be in 1PV. But why "no. just no" to this idea? The reality is that 3PV is here to stay. Currently, everyone always has 3PV. The idea I'm proposing actually turns 3PV into training wheels, where there comes a time where the "noob" has to make a decision to keep the train wheels or trade them in for more useful modules.

So, again, if you are so opposed to 3PV, then why would you want to keep a system where it is always available? Wouldn't a system that encourages players to give it up, and also adds more risk to using at higher levels of play, be preferable?

#8 Firewuff

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 02:40 AM

Because could you imagine being a noob who isstruggling to pilot then suddenly your view is changed against your will, you have no idea what is going on... you suddenly have to reorientate yourself...you lose time trying to figure out what the hell is happening and how to change the view back that isn't working etc etc.

The converse is as a skilled pilot I take 1 shot at the drone knowing it is going to confuse them... 2 shots its dead and suddenly they are a sitting duck running into a wall and flailing becoming an EVEN EASIER target


....this is a bad idea on some many levels.

#9 Bendak

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:15 AM

3PV gives an advantage no matter how slim but I don't see why they can't learn in the training grounds or a super dooper tutorial.

#10 Kitane

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:23 AM

I instinctively voted Bad idea - modules are designed as the "end game" equipment.

Then I actually read the OP's post (...) and changed my vote into Good idea. 3PV being restricted to trial mechs (non-champions) is simply a brilliant, clean solution. It helps people who need it, it comes with heavy price for veterans trying to abuse it. It doesn't split the population into multiple queues yet it keeps the abuse out of normal gameplay.

They could return the minimap back to 3PV and remove the arm lock restriction, I wouldn't mind.

#11 B0oN

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 07:26 AM

Had to vote "Bad Idea", because the lying around 3PV is plainly disgusting, but alas ...

#12 focuspark

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 03:40 PM

I like it.

Drones should require a module slot. All new mechs should come with a drone module already setup (can be removed to make space for better modules); this would mean all trial mechs have a drones.

Drones should be destructible. 1 hp is enough.

While using the drone, the mechwarrior should lose his/her hud except for damage warnings. Firing weapons while using the drone would be nearly pointless as there would be no cross-hairs or ability to lock on.

The drone should be allowed to orbit it's mech and look around in 360 degrees.

Drones should not work for aquiring locks or sharing targeting information as the sensors to do that are in your 'mech and not your drone.

Make part of EW and not some hack-on, and people might not hate it so much.

Edited by focuspark, 02 September 2013 - 03:42 PM.


#13 Solis Obscuri

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 03:45 PM

Treating 3PV as add-on equipment is an interesting notion, and making people sacrifice a module slot would make a compromise for experienced players moreso than new ones (who lack the GXP for modules anyway).

#14 UnwantedProblem

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 05:31 PM

I say, separated queues, end of the problem...

#15 LordSkippy

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 06:29 PM

View PostFirewuff, on 02 September 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

....this is a bad idea on some many levels.


And here is why you are wrong on so many levels.

View PostFirewuff, on 02 September 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

Because could you imagine being a noob who isstruggling to pilot then suddenly your view is changed against your will, you have no idea what is going on... you suddenly have to reorientate yourself...you lose time trying to figure out what the hell is happening and how to change the view back that isn't working etc etc.
  • With their ELO, they are not going up against mostly pro pilots.
  • They will have a minute or two of 3PV until engagement happens, which gives them sometime to learn the torso-leg thing.
  • If their drone gets shot down, they have visual and/or audio cues as to why their view is switching, so disorientation is minimal.


    "Suddenly they are a sitting duck running into a wall and flailing?" The switch from 3PV to 1PV is not that jarring. They'll lose some of their institutional awareness, but they're not going to start running around like chickens with their heads cut off.
  • "Any good player will be better off in 1PV because there are too many disadvantages not to." Sound familiar? It should, they're your words. After the first couple of times it happens, they'll learn that 1PV is better for combat and become better pilots for it. Call it tough love if you want, but that's that.


    "But they'll get frustrated and quit!" Well, they're going to get frustrated and quit trying to fight in 3PV too.
  • Drones will mostly only be shot down while ridge peaking, because in the heat of a brawl you are wasting shots firing at it because:
    • It's a small target.
    • You've wasted heat, ammo, damage, and most importantly TIME on something that does not do any damage (or at most, very little) to the enemy mech.
    • All the while, removing the disadvantages of 3PV in combat from the enemy mech. Good job, Captain Counter-productive!

View PostFirewuff, on 02 September 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:



The converse is as a skilled pilot I take 1 shot at the drone knowing it is going to confuse them... 2 shots its dead and suddenly they are a sitting duck running into a wall and flailing becoming an EVEN EASIER target


You really think they are going to get confused on that first shot at their drone? More likely, they'll think: "Wow, that guy really missed!"

If you're skilled enough to shoot the drone down in one or two shots, then why are you bothering? If it's a brawl, you've spent two shots at the drone. In the time you're taking your shots, you're taking damage while not twisting your torso to spread the damage. If it's not a brawl, and you're sniping, then why are you shooting at the drone instead of their COCKPIT!?!?!?!?!

You, by your own admission, you see 3PV as a disadvantage in combat. Why knock them out of that disadvantage? "Suddenly they are a sitting duck running into a wall and flailing?" That's your answer? Even if it causes as much confusion as you seem to think, it will work how many times? Once or twice before they start switching to 1PV when the enemy is spotted or shots are fired at them. Oh wait, what's that? They just became a better pilot!

"But, I'll get to do that to countless of noobs!" Well guess what? The "noobs" are forced into trial mechs. The hard fact is that they are at a severe disadvantage against moderate to highly skilled pilots in custom mechs, this idea implemented or not. Shooting down the drone when you are in a position to kill them quickly is not going to make a big difference in the outcome. And if they are going up against other new pilots, most are not going to think of shooting down the drone. And if they did, they won't have the skill to do it in one or two shots.

All of this is probably moot now anyway, since they have announced the 12-man queues will be 1PV only. That takes any ridge peaking and any other perceived harm 3PV does in competitive matches away.

Edited by LordSkippy, 02 September 2013 - 06:34 PM.


#16 LordSkippy

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 06:38 PM

View PostUnwantedProblem, on 02 September 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

I say, separated queues, end of the problem...


Only, now you've segregated the player population and lowered the amount of available pilots per queue.

However, since they have announced that the 12-man queue will be 1PV only, it will probably suffice.

View PostRad Hanzo, on 02 September 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

Had to vote "Bad Idea", because the lying around 3PV is plainly disgusting, but alas ...


So let's just down vote any and all ideas that attempt to improve it? That's not being constructive.

#17 TheSteelRhino

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 06:41 PM

Lets also say ppc hits to your mech disrupt comms with the drone and the drone can be "flash blinded" briefly by explosions and energy weps if it is not destroyed.

I hate 3pv but at least there is a price to pay for using it.

i would propose this or remove the ability to change views in game





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