You sort of said it yourself. Fit onto almost every mech in the game. So, if PPCs heat issues have been nearly resolved (+1 heat soon, I think?) with heat scale. Then the problem is its ability to stack with another gun. So they're going to beef up the Gauss, but make it harder to use in conjunction with other guns. Not impossible, just harder. I don't see the problem. Everyone can use PPCs, Pinpoint Alphas of PPCs has been mostly fixed. And?
You sort of said it yourself. Fit onto almost every mech in the game. So, if PPCs heat issues have been nearly resolved (+1 heat soon, I think?) with heat scale. Then the problem is its ability to stack with another gun. So they're going to beef up the Gauss, but make it harder to use in conjunction with other guns. Not impossible, just harder. I don't see the problem. Everyone can use PPCs, Pinpoint Alphas of PPCs has been mostly fixed. And?
Just because everyone can use an item doesnt mean its balanced.
When everyone IS using the item (i.e. what we have now) thats a pretty clear sign that the item is as broken as hodor is dumb.
Pinpoint alpha of PPCs has been mostly fixed?
Are we playing the same game?
Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 28 August 2013 - 05:09 PM.
AntiCitizenJuan, on 28 August 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:
as hodor is dumb.
That made me laugh a little
PPCs need to get their heat changed back to 10 and 15. They are not meant to be the perfect weapon, usable in all cases like that are now. They are a mid to long range support weapon. Right now they are the go to weapon.
Adding a change to the gauss is not a fix. Its a nerf on the gauss, which is not the problem.
You sort of said it yourself. Fit onto almost every mech in the game. So, if PPCs heat issues have been nearly resolved (+1 heat soon, I think?) with heat scale. Then the problem is its ability to stack with another gun. So they're going to beef up the Gauss, but make it harder to use in conjunction with other guns. Not impossible, just harder. I don't see the problem. Everyone can use PPCs, Pinpoint Alphas of PPCs has been mostly fixed. And?
He's actually fairly right and I don't think PPCs are near as much in use as before. PPC use has dropped drastically - I see far more large lasers than I do PPCs. Besides, the PPC was a widely used weapon in Batteltech. About 50 percent of Heavies and seventy-five percent of Assaults had varients mounted with at least one PPC.
That said the incoming Gauss nerf is completely unneccessary.
I'm ok with the Gauss 'nerf', since it also comes with a buff. But I also think they should put a firing delay on PPCs themselves, since that is actually canon. At least, it's suggested. A slight delay to PPCs, and the upcoming firing mechanism for the Gauss will pretty much solve the Gauss/PPC pinpoint problem, since most people won't be able to consistently time those two weapons together. Just a .25 second pause on the PPCs is all it'd need.
Yep. As I said in another thread, it's the 15 pts for 1 heat that's the issue.
Is 2x PPC by itself scaring anyone?
it's that for just 1 more heat you get 75% more damage out put.. and tonnage can be had in assaults and heavies. Tthey can control the PPC all they want by just upping the heat. Cant do that to ballistics for exactly the reason OP outlined.
AntiCitizenJuan, on 28 August 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:
But lets add charge up to the Gauss Rifle. That'll stop the long range meta.
It's definitely not the 7 ton, 3 crit space, unlimited ammo, high velocity energy weapon that can fit onto almost every mech in the game.
No, its the 15 ton, 7 crit space, highly ammo dependent, highly explosive weapon that has low health...
Lol PGI.
Lol IGP.
Lol this game.
Its pretty simple really. When the devs look at the backend statistics, you know, the ones we don't have access to, they see that PPCs aren't preforming as well as people think they are so they don't really change them.
Honestly, just because the masses think something is so, don't make it truth. For example, for the longest time 99.999999% of the worlds population through the world was flat. Same goes with PPCs. They are a good weapon but they are by far not the only viable weapon in the game and definately don't outclass everything else except in the minds of many players.
PPCs need to get their heat changed back to 10 and 15. They are not meant to be the perfect weapon, usable in all cases like that are now. They are a mid to long range support weapon. Right now they are the go to weapon.
Adding a change to the gauss is not a fix. Its a nerf on the gauss, which is not the problem.
In no BT/MW game/fiction have PPCs been a "support weapon." They have always been a main gun.
Its pretty simple really. When the devs look at the backend statistics, you know, the ones we don't have access to, they see that PPCs aren't preforming as well as people think they are so they don't really change them.
Honestly, just because the masses think something is so, don't make it truth. For example, for the longest time 99.999999% of the worlds population through the world was flat. Same goes with PPCs. They are a good weapon but they are by far not the only viable weapon in the game and definately don't outclass everything else except in the minds of many players.
PPCs being good at all ranges and more than manageable heat makes them the most efficient all range weapon in the game, and they are almost always used in conjunction with another weapon. Get ready to see 2PPC/1AC20, and other bastardized combos everywhere after the gauss nerf, assuming they even do it right.
The PPC is a mid-range weapon, make it punishing to use anywhere where your enemy is within reach with 270m weaponry.
The ERPPC is supposed to be a long range weapon, make the heat so high that it has to be used at that range, and force players to pack MLs or the like for closer engagements.
Until PPC heat is increased, it will continue to be a problem. Anyone who is saying that they are currently not a problem, as far as I'm concerned, are ******* delusional.
Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 28 August 2013 - 07:08 PM.
Who wants to bet that the devs actually ARE looking at metrics we can't see; however that those metrics are:
Weapon Avg. Accuracy
Weapon Avg. Dmg Per Weapon Per Round
And are thus thinking the PPC is perfectly balanced because it does roughly the same damage as the large laser and the laser even has higher accuracy! Except that it totally disregards the fact that the laser wastes a potentially large portion of its damage on components that will not contribute to the enemy mech's destruction and that its accuracy is meaningless because you can sweep it across the target as if you were an epileptic having a seizure and it'd be counted as a 100% hit?
Since OP clearly hasn't read any of the other threads on this board and just came in here to ***** I'll reiterate some common sense.
PPCs can be equipped on hella mechs. Gauss rifles cannot. Gauss rifles are superior to every other weapon in the game. Damage per ton of ammo, damage at range (or at least ranges from 350-1000), projectile speed, projectile size (it does not shoot footballs like the PPCs do), and heat generation. Even without any PPCs involved a double-gauss-rifle combination does 30 damage to a pinpoint on anything up to 660 meters away. A jager can load 100 rounds of gauss and still run around at 63kph with dual gauss rifles and bring hell on everybody's head. An awesome with 3 ERPPCs trying to compete is going to overheat and shut down in 3-4 shots depending on the map. If you're using 3 PPCs instead you're going to get murdered by any light that gets inside of 60 meters of you or any Gauss rifle user outside of your range.
The issue is not PPCs, even on cold maps, but the Gauss rifle.
If you nerf PPCs you're nerfing every mech in the entire game and simultaniously giving an even stronger advantage to people using Gauss rifle builds. You're just going to see a massive resurgence of the Gaussapult and the dual Gauss jagermech and another 6 months of people crying about Gauss rifles like they did a year ago.
The Gauss rifle is heavy and that's it. "It explodes!" Yeah ok if you get your arm blown off you get it extra blown off and now you've lost most of your damage anway so who cares. It's a brainless weapon you can use at every range. I'm using two of them on a jager right now with 4 medium lasers strapped to the thing just to help out when guys get too close and the damage output is broken-high. I don't have that kind of success with 3 ERPPCs on anything I own, and I have 3 mastered Awesomes sitting in my garage. The Gauss rifle is the problem in the Gauss/ERPPC combination, not the ERPPC.
Devils Advocate, on 28 August 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:
I spent money on the game before open beta, therefore I pretend to know more about the game than anyone else, let me enlighten you
Oh boy! Another pretentious PGI {Noble MechWarrior}!
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PPCs can be equipped on hella mechs. Gauss rifles cannot. Gauss rifles are superior to every other weapon in the game. Damage per ton of ammo, damage at range (or at least ranges from 350-1000), projectile speed, projectile size (it does not shoot footballs like the PPCs do), and heat generation.
Someone hasnt played the game in a few months. I dont know what kind of football you're watching but footballs dont fly over 2000 meters in 2 seconds. And considering that for a Gauss to be effective over the course of a game it requires at least 4 tons of ammunition, bringing total weight up to 19 tons vs 2 PPCs and 5 Double Heatsinks, which is more than enough to keep heat low while you spray away 20 damage every 4 seconds. I would hardly consider the Gauss Rifle the most effective weapon in the game, especially considering that any smart player will destroy it which in turn will make it explode and **** your mech up. Maybe you just havent seen it firsthand because you havent played in months or play in frankenmech tier MM.
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Even without any PPCs involved a double-gauss-rifle combination does 30 damage to a pinpoint on anything up to 660 meters away. A jager can load 100 rounds of gauss and still run around at 63kph with dual gauss rifles and bring hell on everybody's head. An awesome with 3 ERPPCs trying to compete is going to overheat and shut down in 3-4 shots depending on the map. If you're using 3 PPCs instead you're going to get murdered by any light that gets inside of 60 meters of you or any Gauss rifle user outside of your range.
No one uses 3 PPCs ever, they just use 2PPC/Gauss. And any long range oriented mech should more oft than not get smoked by a nimble, skilled Light pilot. Unfortunately this doesnt happen as often as it should because both the PPC and Gauss are the problem, not just the Gauss like you seem to think. Again, not seeing a point yet.
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The issue is not PPCs, even on cold maps, but the Gauss rifle.
If you nerf PPCs you're nerfing every mech in the entire game and simultaniously giving an even stronger advantage to people using Gauss rifle builds. You're just going to see a massive resurgence of the Gaussapult and the dual Gauss jagermech and another 6 months of people crying about Gauss rifles like they did a year ago.
Who says they shouldnt nerf both PPC and Gauss? Not me, thats for sure. And I hardly see how the pathetic cry of "itll nerf all the mechs!" is even true considering that mechs will still be able to take PPCs on, just at a heavier cost. You should not just be able to run around with a 2PPC Jenner or a 2PPC/Gauss Jackass mech without suffering the consequence of being EXTREMELY vulnerable at close range. Maybe this kind of harsh design will give players insight, and make them realize that they should probably have some close range firepower to back themselves up. Because right now, you can just fly up into the air like the ******* fairy godmother and spam your braindead PPC/Gauss combo at close range, still doing more than 50% of your max alpha in damage, or full damage if you use ERs (which, newsflash, are still heat manageable). Essentially, this negates the need to make a balanced mech, because your pea-brained pinpoint alpha mech can perform at all ranges.
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The Gauss rifle is heavy and that's it. "It explodes!" Yeah ok if you get your arm blown off you get it extra blown off and now you've lost most of your damage anway so who cares. It's a brainless weapon you can use at every range. I'm using two of them on a jager right now with 4 medium lasers strapped to the thing just to help out when guys get too close and the damage output is broken-high. I don't have that kind of success with 3 ERPPCs on anything I own, and I have 3 mastered Awesomes sitting in my garage. The Gauss rifle is the problem in the Gauss/ERPPC combination, not the ERPPC.
And I've mastered all the Awesomes, irrelevent, whoopty ******* doo. The PPC is the same brainless weapon as the Gauss, if not more so. You dont have to worry about it exploding and you dont have to worry about ammo consumption because it has hurr durr unlimited ammo.
So yeah, you've solved nothing here.
Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 28 August 2013 - 07:49 PM.
Except LBX mechs are OBLITERATING PPCs in close combat (anything below 200m) and AC5s are OBLITERATING PPCs that aren't poptarting. Large lasers are far more efficient at fighting, and LPLs should be buffed... soon... maybe... PGI..
The thing that's allowing PPCs to remain so good is the fact that 2 PPCs + gauss are doing pinpoint alpha strikes of 35 damage repeatedly and are heat efficient enough thanks to the gauss to keep doing it over and over.
The REAL solution would be to increase the gauss's heat gen to 3 which would keep 2x gauss builds heat efficient, and keep it as a useful secondary weapon, but it would add 2 heat to the PPC/gauss rotation so they couldn't keep spamming their damage.
In my experience LL's out proform ppc's on many fronts, I cant fathom a build in witch I would ever run a standard ppc, the er ppc's have there place in a few niche applications but the normal ppc is generally underwhelming to me.
Basically OP i have no idea what you are talking about,
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Pac Man, on 28 August 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:
