21 replies to this topic

[Your Friend Mr Rogers]

I have been wondering for a long time why most of the items in my mechlab I can keep....

...but then some of the most expensive upgrades(ferro, double, endo, artemis, etc.) I cannot keep. Then when you upgrade something your standard grade equipment like standard structure just magically disappears. Now normally I would not care about this, but over the time I have been playing this game I have wasted A LOT of money switching back and forth between upgrades, and non-upgrades. If I buy endo steel I would imagine that I should be able to switch back to standard if I wanted to, because I didn't do anything with the standard structure, but you have to buy it again if you want to switch back. Just something that seemed silly to me, and very annoying after you realize a certain build is not very good then in order to change to another build you might think is good you have to downgrade. Which costs money for some reason.

On top of that the c-bill nerf came along, and now it takes quite a bit longer to make some coin.

I hope they change this with UI 2.0, because it has been a hindrance to mechwarriors everywhere...

Feel free to leave comments on what you think.

[FupDup]

Before anybody attempts to rationalize it with realism, why the {Scrap} is engine, weapon, ammo, etc. swapping free?

[JayVrb]

FupDup, on 28 August 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Before anybody attempts to rationalize it with realism, why the {Scrap} is engine, weapon, ammo, etc. swapping free?

Because you bought it.

And you're a mechwarrior.

And mechwarriors are mechanics.

And because you bought it.




*edit for bad grammar

Edited by Vrbas, 29 August 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[FupDup]

Vrbas, on 29 August 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

Because you bought it.

And your a mechwarrior.

And mechwarriors are mechanics.

And because you bought it.

Yeah but why doesn't that apply to things like Artemis or other upgrades?

[JayVrb]

FupDup, on 29 August 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

Yeah but why doesn't that apply to things like Artemis or other upgrades?

That's my point, it should. Period.

Artemis isn't a consumable. Neither is FF, or Endo, or for crying out loud the standard armor you stripped off and put to the wayside to add FF. What, did we "sell" that when we "installed" FF? Cause if soo 400,000CBills makes me think that standard armor is made of cardboard and has 0 resale value.



To put it plainly, it doesn't make any sense. It's just a way for PGI to farm us for premium time as we literally have to waste CBills to modify until our heart is content with, wait for it.... something we already bought.

Edited by Vrbas, 29 August 2013 - 07:16 PM.

[FupDup]

Vrbas, on 29 August 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

That's my point, it should. Period.

Artemis isn't a consumable. Neither is FF, or Endo, or for crying out loud the standard armor you stripped off and put it to the wayside to add FF. What, did we "sell" that when we "installed" FF? Cause if soo 400,000CBills makes me think that standard armor is made of cardboard and has 0 resale value.



To put it plainly, it doesn't make any sense. It's just a way for PGI to farm us for premium time as we literally have to waste CBills to modify until our heart is content with, wait for it.... something we already bought.

Oh, so you agree with my standpoint. I suppose I misread your previous reply and I probably worded my first reply badly--what my first post in this thread translates into is: "If I can do things like swap engines and weapons freely, why should I have to re-buy tech upgrades?"

[CDLord HHGD]

My take is those upgrades are for that mech only.... Might be a bug that we cannot get rid of the "thousands" of units of armor and ammo in our inventories, but for upgrades like ES and FF, they are mech specific. That leg bone won't work in any other mech, same with that shaped armor plating.

DHS upgrade, since we still have to buy the units themselves, is more like a mech specific mod tot he fittings and housings for those larger DHS.

Artemis.... That's a tough one. In lore, it's more than just larger racks and modded missiles. The mech gets electronics for it too.

I'm ok with the current, more so since I can play in Smurphy's (why does a fan have a better mechlab anyways??). Upgrades are pricey and I can make sense that the mods aren't so easily removed or transfered from mech to mech.

Also, just because you are a mechwarrior doesn't mean you are a mechanic. How many nascar drivers are their own mechanics? F1? The driver should have a good grasp of the concepts behind what's going on, but may not know the mech down to the wiring. As a general rule... There are always exception, especially in merc corps.

[Your Friend Mr Rogers]

cdlord, on 30 August 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

My take is those upgrades are for that mech only.... Might be a bug that we cannot get rid of the "thousands" of units of armor and ammo in our inventories, but for upgrades like ES and FF, they are mech specific. That leg bone won't work in any other mech, same with that shaped armor plating.

DHS upgrade, since we still have to buy the units themselves, is more like a mech specific mod tot he fittings and housings for those larger DHS.

Artemis.... That's a tough one. In lore, it's more than just larger racks and modded missiles. The mech gets electronics for it too.

I'm ok with the current, more so since I can play in Smurphy's (why does a fan have a better mechlab anyways??). Upgrades are pricey and I can make sense that the mods aren't so easily removed or transfered from mech to mech.

Also, just because you are a mechwarrior doesn't mean you are a mechanic. How many nascar drivers are their own mechanics? F1? The driver should have a good grasp of the concepts behind what's going on, but may not know the mech down to the wiring. As a general rule... There are always exception, especially in merc corps.

I know most upgrades are mech specific, but if you are like me, and only keep the mech you think is the best of three it is nice to be able to do different builds every once and a while. Most of the time I don't though because I have to re-buy standard structure or endo-steel, and with my stalker 3f endo costs a lot of money. As far as the double heatsink upgrade goes it might be mech specific, but if they are then how come the actual double heatsinks themselves are not mech specific? I don't know the game is awesome and all, but i find very annoying to have to re-buy standard parts that just magically disappear.

[Katotonic]

Not saying that it makes sense but one possible explanation for it all from a lore standpoint is that the units you are taking off get trashed when you take them off. In the battletech universe Mechs, especially inner sphere ones, were not really that moddable. In fact, MWO lets us play with a lot more mods and loadouts than was possible in the lore. Basically things were pretty hardwired in on mechs once they came off the assembly line. If you read the books there is SOME variation on basic models but they almost all come from the factory and a modded mech is something rare. There are multiple examples of pilots seeing X mech and knowing EXACTLY what it was carrying for armament without the sensors telling them. That is a big part of why the clan omnimechs were so much better than inner sphere mechs since they were modable.

[JayVrb]

Your Friend Mr Rogers, on 30 August 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

I don't know the game is awesome and all, but i find very annoying to have to re-buy standard parts that just magically disappear.

Agreed.

[CDLord HHGD]

Your Friend Mr Rogers, on 30 August 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

I know most upgrades are mech specific, but if you are like me, and only keep the mech you think is the best of three it is nice to be able to do different builds every once and a while. Most of the time I don't though because I have to re-buy standard structure or endo-steel, and with my stalker 3f endo costs a lot of money. As far as the double heatsink upgrade goes it might be mech specific, but if they are then how come the actual double heatsinks themselves are not mech specific? I don't know the game is awesome and all, but i find very annoying to have to re-buy standard parts that just magically disappear.

So, I am a mechanic as well as a telecom engineer. For purely fluff reasons, here is how I visualize stuff so it makes sense to me:

FF: Specific armor sheeting custom made for each mech (because they don't all look alike, even variants have differences and it's easier to say "no" than to accomidate).

ES: Mech bones... They are all different and requires a lot of work. They are probably the same from AS7-D to a DDC, but it takes a lot to install and strip out. Perhaps that is what we are paying for.

DHS: They are bigger. But the fitting might also be different. Think the conversion from R-12 to R134a for vehicle AC systems.

Atremis: Bulkier launchers, which are mech specific due to ports and location (catapult ears won't fit in a trebuchet).

I know some of the reasoning is weak sauce, but it helps me sleep at night.

[JayVrb]

cdlord, on 30 August 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

So, I am a mechanic as well as a telecom engineer. For purely fluff reasons, here is how I visualize stuff so it makes sense to me:

FF: Specific armor sheeting custom made for each mech (because they don't all look alike, even variants have differences and it's easier to say "no" than to accomidate).

ES: Mech bones... They are all different and requires a lot of work. They are probably the same from AS7-D to a DDC, but it takes a lot to install and strip out. Perhaps that is what we are paying for.

DHS: They are bigger. But the fitting might also be different. Think the conversion from R-12 to R134a for vehicle AC systems.

Atremis: Bulkier launchers, which are mech specific due to ports and location (catapult ears won't fit in a trebuchet).

I know some of the reasoning is weak sauce, but it helps me sleep at night.

Makes sense. However, I think if I buy FF or EndoSteel for my HBK... i should then own both standard structure and armor that I can swap out later for that specific build.

[CDLord HHGD]

Vrbas, on 30 August 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Makes sense. However, I think if I buy FF or EndoSteel for my HBK... i should then own both standard structure and armor that I can swap out later for that specific build.

Then you are paying your mechanic for the time to do the work. You aren't doing the work yourself. This is Mechwarrior, not Mechanicwarrior.

[JayVrb]

cdlord, on 30 August 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Then you are paying your mechanic for the time to do the work. You aren't doing the work yourself. This is Mechwarrior, not Mechanicwarrior.

Well in that case my mechanic has the most overpaid job in the world:

400,000 for FF
500,000 for Endo
750,000 for Artemis

... I'm taking good care of his family.

[Shazarad]

Charging C-bills to reconfigure mechs like they did in Mechwarrior 2 Mercs would slow the pace of making money even more. They'd have to buff C-bill earnings per match to match the increased comsumption. Essentially you start penalizing customization, and a lot of people who like to tinker will not be happy.

Do not list Smurfy as an alternative, a core part of this game is customization and if you have to take that to 3rd party website just to do something as important as that, then the game design is inherently flawed.

I do agree with using Smurfy as a first time set up to get stats and what not. That's fine because not everyone has a spare 20-30mil sitting around.

I don't agree with charging C-bills for swapping out weapons and the like. Upgrades like Endo and FF are fine as is.

[CDLord HHGD]

Vrbas, on 30 August 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Well in that case my mechanic has the most overpaid job in the world:

400,000 for FF
500,000 for Endo
750,000 for Artemis

... I'm taking good care of his family.

Inflation....

[Roughneck45]

Vrbas, on 30 August 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Well in that case my mechanic has the most overpaid job in the world:

400,000 for FF
500,000 for Endo
750,000 for Artemis

... I'm taking good care of his family.

Hey now, he has to put your mech back together every time you die too. He USED to get paid for that....

[Anjian]

I agree with the opening. Especially with the cash nerf on hand.

[WildeKarde]

I can see why they would cost everytime you change them. We don't lose the FF armour but it's not available to add on to the mech.

The Endo steel is the cost of stripping the mech to it's skeleton and then putting all the parts back into a new skeleton.

FF will be stripping all the armour off the mech and putting on, I assume they don't attach the exact same way.

DHS you need to rip the singles not only out the mech but they engine as well for the ones it comes with. Not sure a reactor is a easy thing to modify this way.

Artemis would basically you be replacing your entire sensors to use this.

Reversing the work would be that same but the original parts are probably easier to put back.

Just my thoughts.

[Cybermech]

its to add to the grind.
grind keeps people playing.
I know it doesn't make sense but its true