63 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Ngamok, on 21 September 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

I play mechs I like the looks of mostly. Could care less how they perform versus others. Mech I like are stuff like Ostrich legs megs ie. Catapults, Cauldron Born, Stalkers, Cataphracts, Timber Wolf, you get the idea. Also, boxy mechs ie, Hunchback, Summoner, Hellbringer. And lastly odd mechs that aren't boxy looking but different in which the Orion falls in this category. If you look at the old artwork you'll notice Alex did a pretty good job keeping the LRM left hunch and the cylindrical arms pretty close with a squarish torso.



Here is my ON1-V with LRM tubes int he arms.

Alex did OK, but TBH, I think the modelers made it better overall, than Alex's concept art. (Except the odd canopy, same complaint I have with their salvaging of the Jagermech, oddly enough).

I would list the Orion and the Hunchback as my favorite looking bipedals in the game, followed by the Victor and Commando.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cybermech, on 21 September 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

grinding out the Orion has not been fun...

especially since I don't really pilot heavies and can't help but scout? in my mechs.
nothing more enjoyable then telling people your scouting in a Lrm C1.

still its not that bad at all, its not the front line mech people want them to be.
however it can bring enough pain and can go fast enough.
really need to unlock elite skills before I call it a loss (everyone's entitled to some denial)

It's not a loss. I have 3 of them unlocked thru Master. Mobility is decent, though not great, and it seems to want for a 325 or 350XL to really move well. Problem is, I would like it to not essentially NEED an XL. 130 matches in mine now, only TWO recorded side torso deaths. No head deaths, No dual legging. Did have a couple of ammo explosions, but the rest were pure CT coring, even though as a Medium pilot I twist and shout like a mad man.

I guess I foolishly was hoping that as a frontline, all purpose Mech with a reputation for toughness, and never designed to carry an XL engine in the first place, that it might shine in that role. And in that role, it fails.

[Cybermech]

350xl gives it a small extra lag shield which does help.
its the CT that makes it designed for XL engine even if its not meant to be.
Not sure how else it would have been implemented.

Still have to wait for I elite them before I can really voice my opinions on it.

[General Taskeen]

Cybermech, on 21 September 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Not sure how else it would have been implemented.

Here is a clue - by making hitboxes make sense. Look up carrioncrow's thread in the game balance forum. Hitboxes were even better in previous Mech Warrior games and they are absolutely sad in MWO.

[Middcore]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 19 September 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

Well, the orion is an old and pretty crappy mech lore wise.

This is an ignorant statement. The Orion is an old and EXCELLENT 'mech lore-wise, its value is why it has stood the test of time and remained in use despite being an ancient design.

In MWO, however, it is a huge disappointment. I had been anticipating it more than any other 'mech and it is AT BEST mediocre. It can't win a stand up fight against anything because the CT intercepts every shot.

It is beyond me why PGI keeps making this mistake and crippling new 'mechs with disastrous hitboxes over and over. They took pity on the Kintaro for some reason (Golden Boy not selling?), the Awesome still languishes after over a year despite cheap talk about fixing it, the Orion shows every sign of joining it, and the near-universal consensus on the Thunderbolt just from looking at the shape of its torso in the art is that it will be a sad joke.

Every semi-decent game I have had with the Orion I was reduced to hiding behind teammates and terrain and taking potshots at enemies who weren't paying attention to me. This Orion is a very far cry from the poor-man's-Atlas, main battle heavy it should be. It is somewhat passable as a support heavy, and we already have plenty of 'mechs that can do that better.

Since my other most anticipated 'mech, the Thunderbolt, is probably going to be near-totally worthless, I don't have much to look forward to anymore. For a year and a half I have been playing this game on nostalgia and inertia and anticipation and hope, and the anticipation and hope is running dry, and I am not sure the nostalgia and inertia are enough to keep me involved.

Edited by Gaslight, 21 September 2013 - 11:09 AM.

[Odins Fist]

FupDup, on 19 September 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

The Victor is pretty much a straight-upgrade to the Orion.

I agree, everything the Orion can do, the Victor does better..

How about that torso mounted ballistic weapon, yeah that's awesome huh.??

[Ngamok]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 September 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Alex did OK, but TBH, I think the modelers made it better overall, than Alex's concept art. (Except the odd canopy, same complaint I have with their salvaging of the Jagermech, oddly enough).

I would list the Orion and the Hunchback as my favorite looking bipedals in the game, followed by the Victor and Commando.

See, I dislike the Commando and Victor because they are too humanoid looking which is why I would have preferred the Zeus over the Victor at 80 tons. Same for the Centurion though not as much. I do like the Highlander for it's trapezoid head.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ngamok, on 21 September 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

See, I dislike the Commando and Victor because they are too humanoid looking which is why I would have preferred the Zeus over the Victor at 80 tons. Same for the Centurion though not as much. I do like the Highlander for it's trapezoid head.

Not going based on that. I'm talking about the overall quality of the rendition, based on the source material

[Escef]

Finally got an Orion, and I'm doing ok with it. My initial build idea for it ran way too hot, so I did a lot of tinkering. Until I can scrape up the c-bills for a big XL, I'm running my V with 2 ERPPCs, 3 LRM5, and 20 DHS. It's a solid support build that can still hold its own up close.

[Bishop Steiner]

Escef, on 22 September 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Finally got an Orion, and I'm doing ok with it. My initial build idea for it ran way too hot, so I did a lot of tinkering. Until I can scrape up the c-bills for a big XL, I'm running my V with 2 ERPPCs, 3 LRM5, and 20 DHS. It's a solid support build that can still hold its own up close.

that does indeed sound very hot.

I like the Orion. Just wish I could love it. ATM, I am playing them cuz I love the looks, but overall, my Victor pretty much outclasses them in every single way. Wish they had the smaller CT to allow them to brawl better and give them a decent distinction and place from the other mechs around it.

[Escef]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 September 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

that does indeed sound very hot.

I like the Orion. Just wish I could love it. ATM, I am playing them cuz I love the looks, but overall, my Victor pretty much outclasses them in every single way. Wish they had the smaller CT to allow them to brawl better and give them a decent distinction and place from the other mechs around it.

Well, that runs a bit hot, too, but I manage. My original idea was an ERPPC, LRM15, and 2 AC2. but I was forced to try it with a mere 11 DHS. That did NOT work well.

Right now I have a w/l and KDR with my ON1-V that tops even my favorite mechs. For whatever reason, the twin ERPPCs and 3 LRM5s just clicked with me. Saving up for a big XL for it now, still rockin' the stock 300 STD.

[Toong]

FupDup, on 19 September 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

The Victor is pretty much a straight-upgrade to the Orion. It can jump, has more armor, has a smaller CT, can shield its body and use its arms as shields, can often go faster, and can carry AC/20 or dual UAC/5 at the same time as an XL engine. It's like PGI doesn't even care about mechs being "viable" anymore; they just want to push out cash cow robots now.

It's heavier. That will mean something once tonnage limits are in.

[Bishop Steiner]

Toong, on 22 September 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

It's heavier. That will mean something once tonnage limits are in.

5 tons will mean very little

[Toong]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 September 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

5 tons will mean very little

Didn't realize they were that close. Oh well, I still think the decision is close enough to be one of personal taste. I've seen pilots do very well in both.

[RickySpanish]

Toong, on 22 September 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Didn't realize they were that close. Oh well, I still think the decision is close enough to be one of personal taste. I've seen pilots do very well in both.

You know the worst thing about weight limits regarding the Orion though? It's that the extra 5 tons it has over a Cataphract is eaten up mostly by the absolute necessity for a larger engine! What a waste! You might as well just take a Cataphract and save TEN tons instead of five!

[Deathlike]

Toong, on 22 September 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Didn't realize they were that close. Oh well, I still think the decision is close enough to be one of personal taste. I've seen pilots do very well in both.

The Victor is better. IMO, the Orion's squishy torso won't save it over the Victors that I have had the fortune of trying to chase one in a Highlander.... suffice it to say, I gained respect for something that I didn't think was too special initially.

RickySpanish, on 22 September 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

You know the worst thing about weight limits regarding the Orion though? It's that the extra 5 tons it has over a Cataphract is eaten up mostly by the absolute necessity for a larger engine! What a waste! You might as well just take a Cataphract and save TEN tons instead of five!

Well, the 3D is just one phract variant, where the Victor you have two viable variants that can carry an AC20+XL engine. Of course, neither are good LRM boats compared to the Orion (which is at least one of the few pluses it has).

[Bishop Steiner]

RickySpanish, on 22 September 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

You know the worst thing about weight limits regarding the Orion though? It's that the extra 5 tons it has over a Cataphract is eaten up mostly by the absolute necessity for a larger engine! What a waste! You might as well just take a Cataphract and save TEN tons instead of five!

In almost all cases, you would be better off with a Jager OR a Phract. And saving the tonnage. The issue, is people have this myth that the 75 ton range is some sort of sweet spot. In my experience, it's mostly nostalgia based on the Marauder, Orion and MadCat.

Both carry better overall firepower to speed. And their CTs draw less fire. Orion is GOOD, but not great, simple as that.

[Mr 144]

Deathlike, on 22 September 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Well, the 3D is just one phract variant, where the Victor you have two viable variants that can carry an AC20+XL engine. Of course, neither are good LRM boats compared to the Orion (which is at least one of the few pluses it has).

Meh...I actually like every 'phract variant

[Sharp Spikes]

Quote

Huge Ct

If hitboxes would be rearranged to make CT smaller it will lead to huge side torsos, and thus inability to mount an XL engine. And without XL engine it is impossible to stuff in enough weapons to be competitive. So I doubt that reduction of CT hitbox will do any good.

Quote

Low-Mounted Weapons

To give mechs with lower arm actuators a better fighting chance it would be nice to make them being able to raise their arms... Just imagine how many years it would take for PGI to implement it. I'm not sure I'll live THAT long.

Quote

No Jj

And it seems that it is needed to reduce accuracy of weapons in all phases of a jump, because poptarting has returned in full force.

Quote

DOA Orion

Not quite dead, but definitely non-competitive mech. It plays like slower but a bit more durable Dragon.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sharp Spikes, on 22 September 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

If hitboxes would be rearranged to make CT smaller it will lead to huge side torsos, and thus inability to mount an XL engine. And without XL engine it is impossible to stuff in enough weapons to be competitive. So I doubt that reduction of CT hitbox will do any good.


To give mechs with lower arm actuators a better fighting chance it would be nice to make them being able to raise their arms... Just imagine how many years it would take for PGI to implement it. I'm not sure I'll live THAT long.


And it seems that it is needed to reduce accuracy of weapons in all phases of a jump, because poptarting has returned in full force.


Not quite dead, but definitely non-competitive mech. It plays like slower but a bit more durable Dragon.

and, not even close. Many of the more devastating builds for the chassis run an AC20, which precludes the use of an XL anyhow. BUT, those builds are hampered by the CT getting easily cored out, thus making brawling in them undesirable. Also, speed is CURRENTLY needed for survivable, because you need to hide that CT. If the mech could twist and sacrifice it's side torsos, it would remain combat viable a lot longer.

Regardless, the side torsos are almost not hit at all, now. Splitting that difference would give people the option of the high risk/reward glass cannon, or a less glamorous, but tougher standard engine. Right now you are essentially FORCED into using an XL.

Pretty stupid for a mech never designed with an XL in mind in the first place.