Jump to content

Losing Streak


17 replies to this topic

#1 DjPush

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 1,964 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:37 PM

My stats:
Began Oct 2012
KDR: 1.25
Kills/Deaths4,582 / 3,660
wins\loses:3,149 / 3,499
experience points:3,210,729

Lately it seems like every match is a loss and I just get rolled with the PUGs. It gets a little aggravating sometimes. I have a team that I play with but they aren't on sometimes when I play (different time zones). So I end up playing by myself. It seems like the people I play against are always so much better than me. Is there something in the program that is doing this to me? Does it hate me? Tonnage in the matches seem one sided most of the time and I always end up playing against 4 man pre-mades or sink drops. Can someone explane how this system works?

Edited by DjPush, 21 September 2013 - 10:39 PM.


#2 RiceyFighter

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 608 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:58 PM

I get good days and bad days too my friend

#3 Johnny Reb

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 3,945 posts
  • LocationColumbus, Ohio. However, I hate the Suckeyes!

Posted 21 September 2013 - 11:53 PM

Heh, it happens. I lost 4 times in a row last night doing my Orion missile boat. Lost all 4 but still mastered the *****! Missle boats and pugs is a {Scrap} shot, 4 man same just might have backup, 12 man at least the team knows and will defend me.

#4 OneEyed Jack

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,500 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 02:22 AM

If you normally play with a pre-made group, then you Elo will be inflated over what it would be if you normally played solo, because communication+coordination is a multiplier for effectiveness. They recently tightened the settings on the Matchmaker, forcing the Elo balance to run closer. So basically, it's balancing you based on an Elo score that you could not have earned on your own, because PGI separated Elo by weight class, but didn't have the foresight to separate by solo vs grouped.

#5 athlonduke

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 159 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 22 September 2013 - 06:01 AM

you're not alone, the match maker does the same to me. i used to play on teamspeak almost exclusively and once ELO was implemented i was constantly losing if i played solo. a typical night for me is about 4-6 losses in a row before i'll win. it's somewhat of a joke.
I still have a 2+ KDR so i still get massive losing streaks. sucks when i would like to unwind.

#6 Dalinor Frostreaver

    Member

  • PipPip
  • 26 posts
  • LocationAlaska

Posted 22 September 2013 - 06:03 AM

Same here. I run a few days as a god of death. (3 to 6 kills per match, win win win) and then a few days of WTF insta dead lose every match. Win some, lose some. Could aslo be an ELO thing. win/kill streaks bump me up, then tougher matches push me down?

#7 DjPush

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 1,964 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:25 AM

Got it. Don't play solo. Thanks guys!

#8 Zordicron

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 2,547 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:41 AM

ELO is designed to give you a 50% win rate. obviously, that means you will lose the other 50%. It does this in theory by putting you on teams and in matches that either you have some slight advantage in skill or tonnage, or a disadvantage of the same to affect the outcome. If you win the disadvantaged match, you will gain higher ELO, and then the disadvantage will either grow or your opponents will get tougher.

What time you play has a mega effect on who you get put with if your ELO is in the mid/upper mid range. As your ELO goes into a high-mid or upper tier, if the player availability is lower, you will get used to balance out a low ELO player to balance a match. For instance, I play in a sort of "after primetime" time bracket during the week. Most of the players are older and IMO their awareness appears higher, and there is just simply a different team dynamic then the other situation: when I played saturday morning at 9am. All the little boys and girls were on, complete with inane trash talk with cuss words, nerd rage explosions, finger pointing, etc. IMO, at that time, the player base ranks have been swelled with the little kids that are taking a break from CoD. They play the same. Nobody works together, nobody is aware on the field, and what I hate the most: the CoD mindset of positioning.

I will explain: first, you maneuver around the map, not in a straight line really, sort of meandering. If you could move faster you would take lots of wierd routes along the edge, etc. If you pilot a light mech, you do do this. Then, it is important to find the enemy. When you do see the enemy, you dont move to an area to intercept them in an advantage with your team, you move into some other place of percieved solo advantage to take a shot at an unaware foe. If return fire is given, you escape, and I mean escape a long ways. Getting hit by one ML from 400M is enough to send you scurrying back behind your "friends".

What happens is, in the end, a player like myself wil see some team mates engaged with the foe. If it is a landslide where my team mate is simply outgunned, i will chat "fall back" or some such and decide on a flank route. If it is even, I will move to engage to assist. if it is a landslide for our side, i will still move, but I will be on the lookout for another enemy to intercept, or if I know where the bulk of the enemy is, I might try to stay with whoever is the bigger section of our team to react to enemy movements, or even team movements so we dont get overwhelmed. When you play with the older pug crowd, this usually meshes with everyone and the fights are closer. When you play on Saturday morning cartoon crowd games, this does not mesh. What happens is, you see your team mates engaged, and when you move to assist, they are already in the full on scurry away and hide mode from one 400M ML hit. Even if they have a numbers advantage, even if that advantage is made bigger by my arrival, it doesnt matter.

So then what happens is, you have no team work, you have the assault mechs getting left high and dry, you have what should be an advantaged victorious battle suddenly dissipate into an advantage for the enemy, and it just snowballs into a significant loss. Runing away over and over just gets the kids shot up without the enemy taking dmg, and eventually it hits critical mass and the team evaporates and you lose like 4-12. In these games, my personal numbers may take some hits as you end up getting focused down more often, but my KD ratio isnt horribly knocked down, because I can usually take someone or 2 out anyway. But you end up taking big money hits, because you get no assists, you end up getting taken out in a rediculous way, futility it feels like because your team simply wont capitalize on any advantage.


i would say a built in team speak might help with this, but for the cartoon crowd, man, i can only imagine what it would sound like given what ends up in the chat window. This is also part of the hate on 4 mans, it really isnt that big a deal that a 4 man has dropped on the enemy side. It becomes one, when your team is a bunch of Saturday morning cartoon kids playing "sneaky CoD style" because what tiny bit of team work you can muster out of your team is completely overwhelmed by a simple 4 man that knows how to cover for each other and wont simply escape 500M away when they take a hit from an out of range LL. They will be the ones shooting the kids in the back.

honestly, i wish there was a subscription plan for MWO, and a matchmaker for the subs. It would prevent trial people from getting put into veteran matches, it would keep the 9 year olds playing the game "cause mom said it's ok cause it's free" from being in vet matches. Not all of the juveniles, mom ad dad have a big wallet and a loose leash somtimes, but it would deffinatly help. Put the pre-made team stuff as part of the sub plan. make 2 tiers of sub plan. Cheap plan that opens premade teams, whatever, and higher tier plan that gives out goodies once a month. Maybe that makes me sound like a jerk, but really it would benefit everyone if the chaotic CoD battlefield kids were all lumped together, because their style of play wouldnt instantly create a mega advantage for the enemy, because the enemy would be the same way.

#9 OneEyed Jack

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,500 posts

Posted 22 September 2013 - 02:17 PM

View PostEldagore, on 22 September 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

ELO is designed to give you a 50% win rate. obviously, that means you will lose the other 50%.

Stop it. Just freaking STOP IT!

Elo is not designed to force a certain W/L rate. It's just designed to create reasonably balanced matches by pitting players against others of roughly the same "skill" level, "skill" being defined by effectiveness and measured by who one can and can't beat on a consistent basis. An even W/L is a byproduct, assuming the Matchmaker is working correctly, not the goal. In other words, it forces you to play matches you have a reasonable chance of losing, but it does not force you to lose, ever.

The distinction may be subtle, but I think it's important.

(Disclaimer: Of course this is all assuming the Elo-based Matchmaker works.....)

#10 MeiSooHaityu

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 10,912 posts
  • LocationMI

Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:02 AM

Yea, I get in a slump too.

If you PUG, this is my advice (and my theory). Try and play in the off hours. Basically play during the day when people are normally still at work or school (if you can). Durring those hours, you are probably playing with PUG heavy teams and should have an easier time. If it is the weekend, play durring the day for the same reason. Once it get's later, people form up into parties (since now more people are available to play) and you will be up against more premades (and get steam rolled more often).

#11 Joseph Mallan

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 35,216 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationMallanhold, Furillo

Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:07 AM

View PostDjPush, on 22 September 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Got it. Don't play solo. Thanks guys!

Play solo, but don't expect to win. When playing Solo you can only be expected to do your best. Unless you have a history of carrying your team to victory...

#12 The Boz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,317 posts

Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:08 AM

I'm in a negative today myself, after four losses in a row. Was +15, now only +10 on this particular mech.
Of the thirty games played, some of the losses and some of the victories were legitimate, close, entertaining, but others...
Example: We're winning the game, 9:2, I happen to die after dealing out something like 790 damage, and what happens? Our base starts getting capped by the three survivors. And what does my team do? They surround the base and start taking potshots. All the time I'm writing into team chat "stand in square to stop cap!" and things like that, but nope. Nobody reacts. Nine mechs shooting at three mechs, and nobody moves a muscle. Lost that one. And then a a few of the teammates say "bg" and "lame capwarrior online"
It was that type of a loss for like a third of the games today. A team that completely scatters at the start, with seven trial mechs that result in a 0:7 five minutes into it, or an LRM boat that "forgot" to take weapons that aren't LRMs, or stupids that stand right behind you as you exit a tunnel and refuse to move, all the while you're getting bombed in the face by missiles and PPCs.
Solo drop is the epitome of unfun. 80% of the matches end with 12:4 or even more brutal blowouts, and the lack of ingame communication options is seriously hurting the game.

#13 Zarlaren

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 334 posts
  • LocationRoseburg

Posted 08 November 2013 - 08:09 PM

Wins / Losses 377 / 545 losing more then winning for me.

#14 Monkey Lover

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 7,918 posts
  • LocationWazan

Posted 08 November 2013 - 08:23 PM

View PostDjPush, on 21 September 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

My stats:
Began Oct 2012
KDR: 1.25
Kills/Deaths4,582 / 3,660
wins\loses:3,149 / 3,499
experience points:3,210,729

Lately it seems like every match is a loss and I just get rolled with the PUGs. It gets a little aggravating sometimes. I have a team that I play with but they aren't on sometimes when I play (different time zones). So I end up playing by myself. It seems like the people I play against are always so much better than me. Is there something in the program that is doing this to me? Does it hate me? Tonnage in the matches seem one sided most of the time and I always end up playing against 4 man pre-mades or sink drops. Can someone explane how this system works?
From what I can tell light mechs win or lose the games.If I set back support the large mechs with a ecm and keep other lights off them we will win.If Iget bored of capping or playing body guard I lose more often.

#15 Mawai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 3,495 posts

Posted 08 November 2013 - 08:37 PM

There were two key items that I think may be contributing to your experience.

1) You usually drop with a team but sometimes they aren't on so you drop solo.
2) In your solo experience you seem to lose a lot more often than you win.

There is a good reason for this. When running in a group with coordination you are far more effective than when running solo and no one is organized. You will more often win then. Your ELO goes up. You end up with a high ELO that might do a good job of balancing a match when you are grouped with your friends.

However, when you run solo, you have the SAME ELO you earned running in a group. The game expects you to be just as efficient and coordinated. You are placed in matches against other pre-made groups because your rating derives mostly from group play. The net result is that you tend to lose more often since you aren't contributing to the team at a level which might be indicated by your ELO score.

This situation will tend to reduce your ELO over time until you are then placed in matches appropriate to your solo ELO score.

In my opinion, PGI should have separate ELO values for each player for group and solo play so that they can be properly factored into the matchmaker.

Anyway, this may be part of the problem leading to your losing streaks in solo play.

#16 Blurry

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 382 posts
  • LocationGreat White North

Posted 09 November 2013 - 07:24 AM

It is the match maker

You just dont go on streaks for days at a time of winning and losing.
I have gone 2 days without a win some times.

Recently I will on occasion get a win thrown in to break it up. The past few days the match maker has
been giving me the wins.
I just want a close fun fight. But that I think wont happen.

#17 MadCat02

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • 668 posts

Posted 09 November 2013 - 07:46 AM

View PostDjPush, on 21 September 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

My stats:
Began Oct 2012
KDR: 1.25
Kills/Deaths4,582 / 3,660
wins\loses:3,149 / 3,499
experience points:3,210,729

Lately it seems like every match is a loss and I just get rolled with the PUGs. It gets a little aggravating sometimes. I have a team that I play with but they aren't on sometimes when I play (different time zones). So I end up playing by myself. It seems like the people I play against are always so much better than me. Is there something in the program that is doing this to me? Does it hate me? Tonnage in the matches seem one sided most of the time and I always end up playing against 4 man pre-mades or sink drops. Can someone explane how this system works?



Your stats are low considering how long you played . I asume you play lights mostly .

My KDA 2.65 ..... 4.00 for Assaults with 65% win rate . I don't play premades.

Assault players win more games because size matters .

Edited by MadCat02, 09 November 2013 - 07:48 AM.


#18 Levon K

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 324 posts
  • LocationToronto

Posted 09 November 2013 - 07:56 AM

Was about to reply, then I realized it was necro'd





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users