61 replies to this topic

[Sybreed]

Assaults mechs were either D-DCs or Highlanders and many light mechs had ECM.

And, I don't remember seeing a single LRM salvo in the entire tournament.

GAME IS BALANCED YO

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

There was one game in particular where one team brought a single LRM Stalker (4x LRM10s), who really lit up several enemy Atlases.

As for the ECM, it still has balance problems and will continue to do so until it changes from a sweeping hard counter (only dealt with via other hard counters) to a well-integrated part of a sweeping soft-counter system.

Regarding the lights, Jenner JR7-Fs seemed pretty dominant.

[MadPanda]

PGI gave the ecm slots to the best variants of the mech. So you can't really blame the players for picking a DC instead of a K/D/RS, now can you? It would be the best variant without ecm also so ecm is like cherry on the top.

What the launch party games proved was that maybe pgi wasn't so dumb in overnerfing the ppc. What I saw was that everyone was running a two ppc + a ballistic (mostly ac10) regardless of their mechs. This build was so popular it was on highlanders, cataphracts and atlases. Oh and the most popular mech is apparently the cataphract 3D. I was a bit surprised to see the "competitive scene" still playing like it was couple of months ago and nothing changed.

[Sybreed]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 27 September 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

There was one game in particular where one team brought a single LRM Stalker (4x LRM10s), who really lit up several enemy Atlases.

As for the ECM, it still has balance problems and will continue to do so until it changes from a sweeping hard counter (only dealt with via other hard counters) to a well-integrated part of a sweeping soft-counter system.

Regarding the lights, Jenner JR7-Fs seemed pretty dominant.

agreed. On ECM, I'd make it a soft counter to target lock by making it 100% longer to acquire on the equipped mech, 50% longer on mechs inside the bubble. It still negates BAP, Artemis and NARC.

[Corvus Antaka]

yup.

[Sephlock]

But but but guys! But guys! An LRM boat can take out a fully armored Atlas in one volley! Really! LRMs OP!

[Thell]

Honestly wasn't all that exciting to watch teams poptart until someone grew balls and rushed.

[Wolfways]

Sybreed, on 27 September 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

agreed. On ECM, I'd make it a soft counter to target lock by making it 100% longer to acquire on the equipped mech, 50% longer on mechs inside the bubble. It still negates BAP, Artemis and NARC.

The ECM is for countering advanced technology (C3, Artemis IV, NARC), not countering missiles. The anti-lock on ECM's should be removed.

[RandomLurker]

The most powerful aspect of ECM is undoubtedly it's information denial ability. A good ECM covered flank will almost always win a match, in addition to the hard missile counter, means I can predict the win/loss of an assault match by looking at my team and counting up the number of ECM carriers.

-BAP needs to counter ECM by making mechs show up on the minimap for whoever has the BAP equipped.
-Preventing target lock beyond a minimum range, and preventing transmission of data at the same time is too much. It means that a scout can't relay target information even when they get into the right position to do so. Remove one or the other.
-Change the missile effect to 100% increased lock tome and 100% decreased sensor fade. This makes it a powerful missile counter, but one that depends on pilot skill instead of merely being an on/off switch.

[Kitane]

ECM should not prevent target locks under basic unbuffed targetting distance of 799m, period.

[General Taskeen]

Wolfways, on 27 September 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

The ECM is for countering advanced technology (C3, Artemis IV, NARC), not countering missiles. The anti-lock on ECM's should be removed.

Would be cool if C3 and C3 Masters were added.

Mech Bob A (C3 Master) - Targets Enemy (Also acts as tag, per canon) and relays to anyone with C3 Slaves

Mech Dude B (C3 Slave 1) - A target pops up on radar from someone using C3 Master, in range, and Dude B can now see target info of Enemy Mech as well - Dude B happens to be carrying LRM's and can now indirectly fire the lrm's.

Mech Wolf C (C3 Slave 2) - Can see that C3 Master is targeting an enemy and attempts to target, but suddenly does not see any Mech Loadout info and can not indirectly fire - An Enemy Mech with ECM has cut off their connection with the C3 Master - Radios in that their C3 is being jammed by ECM and begins targeting a Light ECM brawler. (in this world of a dreamy MWO - the ECM only has a straight longer lock on time, but can not shut off missiles completely)

Mech Guy D (No C3 Equipment) - See's that friendlies targeted enemies, and can target them as well, but can not fire LRM's indirectly, can not see the loadout of the enemy (not in LOS). Mech Guy C will only be able to indirectly fire LRM's if he has a Light Mech use TAG or NARC (with NARC, Mech Guy C can un-target the enemy and lob the LRM's which will auto-seek the NARC, or they can target something else so their LRM's don't auto-seek).

Hmm, so much possibilities.

Edited by General Taskeen, 27 September 2013 - 11:30 PM.

[East Indy]

Thell, on 27 September 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

Honestly wasn't all that exciting to watch teams poptart until someone grew balls and rushed.

Noticed that. I watched one match — to be fair, maybe the least interesting one — but gained a lot of appreciation for the variety found with pickups.

RandomLurker, on 27 September 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

-Change the missile effect to 100% increased lock time and 100% decreased sensor fade. This makes it a powerful missile counter, but one that depends on pilot skill instead of merely being an on/off switch.

I'd like to see a change like this attempted on the PTS.

One conceptual alternative might be to decrease damage-per-missile and impact cockpit shake for increased ammunition and (via one of these methods) increased uptime on targets.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

Thell, on 27 September 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

Honestly wasn't all that exciting to watch teams poptart until someone grew balls and rushed.

Welcome to higher ELO in this game since oh say April. The gameplay isn't half as fun as it used to be, mainly due to poptarts. Until they're dealt with forcefully, I'll only play this game casually.

[Wolfways]

I noticed the same thing and posted an idea here: http://mwomercs.com/...lrms-revisited/

[Livewyr]

Sephlock, on 27 September 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

But but but guys! But guys! An LRM boat can take out a fully armored Atlas in one volley! Really! LRMs OP!

It's true! I did it with a single LRM10!

[Yosharian]

The fact is people aren't bringing TAGs to these fights, that's why LRM is being negated so heavily. ECM doesn't mean **** if you get instantly TAG'd, but people refuse to bring this equipment to fights cos it doesn't do TEH UBER DMG! Same thing for AMS.

[Sephlock]

Yosharian, on 28 September 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

The fact is people aren't bringing TAGs to these fights, that's why LRM is being negated so heavily. ECM doesn't mean **** if you get instantly TAG'd, but people refuse to bring this equipment to fights cos it doesn't do TEH UBER DMG! Same thing for AMS.

It's sort of a... catch-22!

[Wolfways]

Yosharian, on 28 September 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

The fact is people aren't bringing TAGs to these fights, that's why LRM is being negated so heavily. ECM doesn't mean **** if you get instantly TAG'd, but people refuse to bring this equipment to fights cos it doesn't do TEH UBER DMG! Same thing for AMS.

I don't use LRM's much but i've had a Catapult-C1 since CB, and the reason i don't want to fit a TAG is because it would replace one of my much needed energy hardpoints. 4xML's is bad enough for defense as it is.
Plus while using TAG may be useful vs. an Atlas (assuming he doesn't see you staring straight at him at only 750m and blasts you to pieces) it's way too hard to keep it on a light mech.

[Ozric]

Wolfways, on 28 September 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

I don't use LRM's much but i've had a Catapult-C1 since CB, and the reason i don't want to fit a TAG is because it would replace one of my much needed energy hardpoints. 4xML's is bad enough for defense as it is.
Plus while using TAG may be useful vs. an Atlas (assuming he doesn't see you staring straight at him at only 750m and blasts you to pieces) it's way too hard to keep it on a light mech.

I respect your perseverance, but I would suggest that you do try slapping a TAG on your C1. It makes a world of difference, at least it has for me, and it racks up the TAG assists which in the current economic climate is extremely helpful for the wallet. Your right of course, it's hard to TAG lights at range, but once they get in close and your teams missiles start coming in it does tend to put them off.

[Wispsy]

Wolfways, on 28 September 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

I don't use LRM's much but i've had a Catapult-C1 since CB, and the reason i don't want to fit a TAG is because it would replace one of my much needed energy hardpoints. 4xML's is bad enough for defense as it is.
Plus while using TAG may be useful vs. an Atlas (assuming he doesn't see you staring straight at him at only 750m and blasts you to pieces) it's way too hard to keep it on a light mech.

Well I did tell you catapaults are one of the worst for lrming. TAG can easily be trained on a light mech. Having TAG will easily do more damage then 1mlas, work more on positioning yourself better so you do not need to be using those mlas except in absolutely emergency. Not using TAG and complaining about missiles makes no sense...It is like saying "this cake it too dry" after refusing to pick up the half with the jam and cream on...