113 replies to this topic

[Alexander Steel]

No the Death to Mercenaries order applied to ALL mercs as the official policy of the Draconis Combine. However certain nobles inside of the combine were willing to ignore the order when It suited their purpose. This wouldn't be the first or last time such actions would happen either. From attacks against the FRR when it was formed, to the invasion of Ghost Bear Space. Combine history is full of times where the Coordinator is flat out ignored by his nobles who feel they are doing the best thing for the Combine as a whole, or for themselves from time to time.

In fact after the "Death to Mercs" order is removed after the Kell Hounds and Wolf's Dragoons save Luthien they specifically talk about how the Combine and nobles can now hire mercs again to fight for them... legally.

[rdmgraziel]

There's also the whole "Mechs the house can build" vs "Mechs the house fields". An Example being the Victor. I *believe* at this point in the timeline that Kurita actually took back the factory to make them, but because the Victor is synonomous with Davion military might, they flat-out REFUSE to actually field it. This is likely a rare case, but there's also certain technology that's also more common in different houses. ECM is a Liao thing, for example, and Marik has most of the production facilities for standard lasers and missiles, so they use a lot of those.

[Alexander Steel]

I think I read that in the 3050 book, House Davion ended up buying the Jump Jets ((I think that was the only part they couldn't make else where)) from the St. Ives so they could continue to produce Victors.

Which they had to because Prince Victor Steiner-Davion's personal mech was always going to be the Victor.

Hmm.. Sarna suggests that the FedCom purchased the entire Victor from the St. Ives.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 07 January 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[Kyone Akashi]

Alexander Steel, on 07 January 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

No the Death to Mercenaries order applied to ALL mercs as the official policy of the Draconis Combine.

Where did you read this, though? I've never seen it explained this way in any of the official material - but I'm always willing to expand my knowledge if you could point me to a source.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Kyone Akashi, on 07 January 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Where did you read this, though? I've never seen it explained this way in any of the official material - but I'm always willing to expand my knowledge if you could point me to a source.

I would need to go and look it up again - but I am pretty sure I remember it being all mercs in the Warrior trilogy (or whatever the one that featured Kai's dad's time as a spy)

But I would take that with a grain of salt as my memory is not working well enough to remember what Kai's dad's name was

<blushes with embarasment as he runs back to the lurking corner>

Edit: got smart enough to google the trilogy and pilot: it was the Warrior trilogy, and Kai's dad was Justin.

Digging through my books trying to find the passage though - be back later if I survive

Edited by Shar Wolf, 09 January 2014 - 08:04 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Kyone Akashi, on 07 January 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Where did you read this, though? I've never seen it explained this way in any of the official material - but I'm always willing to expand my knowledge if you could point me to a source.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of a clear explanation from the official materials.
Even the thread in the BT Forums dedicated to that very question provides no definitive answer, beyond "there is apparently being no definitive wording for the DtM edict that anyone, including the mods, knows of".

There are, however, two passages - one from Warrior: Coupe & one from 20 Year Update - that may provide some insight as to why it is commonly interpreted that way.

Akira turned and thrust a finger at Palmer Conti. "This man brought his regiment here to steal the glory of destroying the Kell Hounds for himself. Look at him. Even now he schemes and plots. He will find a way to lay the blame for his command's destruction at the feet of my father. He will tell the Dragon that we arrived too late, or that we refused to attack or that his people died trying to save us from the Kell Hounds. No matter how feeble the fiction he creates, it will save him.
"It will save him because Takashi Kurita will believe anything. The Dragon is old and worried. His personal vendetta against Jaime Wolf prompted him to order all mercenaries to be killed on sight. As a pretext for this order, he reminds us that mercenaries fight for money and, therefore, have no honor. They cannot be true warriors because of this character flaw, and we should find them an affront to our sensibilities."
Akira looked over at Morgan Kell. "There is your honorless mercenary. My father slew Patrick Kell on Styx, but Morgan did not hate him for it. On Terra last year, Morgan Kell and Jaime Wolf, both gold-grubbing thugs in the eyes of the Dragon, joined with and helped my father win through a very dangerous situation - saving my life and probably his in the bargain. And then here, after a day's worth of battle in this desert, Morgan Kell honored my father's desire for a duel, yet refused to shame my father in it."
(Warrior: Coupé, ch. 52; written from the viewpoint of Oct. 3029)

The Coordinator's obsession with destroying Wolf's Dragoons after the mercenaries left the Draconis Combine in 3028 seemed to border on madness. Coordinator Kurita took the case to a ComStar Review Board, but the Board ruled no fault. While he was concentrating all his energy and attention on the Dragoons along the Davion border, the Combine military effort on the Commonwealth front suffered greatly. Takashi, meanwhile, became increasingly irrational, flying into fits of rage and ranting that he wanted the skins and skulls of the Dragoons' commanding officers.
Constance Kurita, Keeper of the Family Honor, stepped in a few weeks before the war's end, demanding that Takashi undergo intensive medical examination. What the doctors found was that the Coordinator had suffered a stroke severe enough to affect his mental functioning sometime in the previous two years. They also predicted he would suffer another, even more debilitating one unless he underwent a series of operations to remove dangerous blood clots and to repair weakened arteries.
(20 Year Update, pg. 34; 20YU is written from the viewpoint of Jan. 3050)

Basically, Takashi was experiencing some medical issues that impaired his judgement (Can strokes actually do what is described in that passage? ), and coupling that with the general low regard for mercs by the Combine's TPTB & the Coordinator's "increasingly irrational" "obsession with destroying Wolf's Dragoons" resulted in an apparently-ambiguous edict that could be liberally interpreted as "kill all of the enemy mercs, but make use of merc services only if absolutely necessary... and as long as we don't have to hear about it" or strictly interpreted as "kill all mercs on sight - period" as the situation (e.g. the particular story being told) requires.

[Alexander Steel]

Quote

The Dragon is old and worried. His personal vendetta against Jaime Wolf prompted him to order all mercenaries to be killed on sight.

This is the quote I was thinking of. Also in the late books set after 3052, several mercs talk about how the Draconis Combine has recently started hiring mercs again after the "Death to Mercs" order was removed. I think they mention it in the caballero novels that Uncle Chandy was a big fan of the new policy and one of the higher ranking nobles to first hire private mercs.

Quote

Can strokes actually do what is described in that passage?

Sadly yes. One of my relatives had a stroke and right after it he became paranoid about people he never had a problem with in his life.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 10 January 2014 - 06:35 AM.

[Sephlock]

Rearick, on 25 October 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

After some attempted research, both on and off this website, I still can not make heads or tales of what the difference is between any faction. Does anyone have any guides that break it down that they can link me, or give me a quick breif? I played MW2 and 3, but never watched the shows or played teh board game or anything. The storylines were just as foggy in the old games as well. Thanks in advance!

The Davions are the heroes. They are good and the best in every way that matters.

The Steiners are the contagonists. They're dumb and easily misled, but they have lots of firepower and some hot women (and some evil, crazy ones). Sort of like Russia.

House Marik is dumb and useless and ineffectual and easily tricked, but they eventually become BAMF in the post-sanity storyline.

House Liao is basically a cross between North Korea and Communist China.

House Kurita is Japan if we had let them keep China after WW2 and they had been less evil at the time.

The FRR are honorary ghost bears, and that's about it .

The Marian Hegemony is notable for their sweet rocket launchers and not much else.

[Odanan]

Ultimate Faction Test.

[Kyone Akashi]

Thanks for the novel quote! Given the context of its use - a personal vendetta against an already hostile merc (against whom the DtM edict would apply even by my aforementioned interpretation) - I would have preferred something more obvious, but at least this is something more than just the name. I really wish the writers would flesh out this little detail for good.


That said, the Mercenaries Supplemental sourcebook (which has some really cool background and RPG stuff for mercs, btw!) mentions a "mass exodus of small mercenary units, many of which had decades-long ties to the Combine" after the edict was issues, yet also has the 789th Striker aka Crater Cobras being contracted by the DC in 3050. Weird.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 10 January 2014 - 01:12 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Kyone Akashi, on 10 January 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

Yet also has the 789th Striker aka Crater Cobras being contracted by the DC in 3050. Weird.

Didn't they have a grudge against the Dragoons though?

I could see them being hired for their willingness to help hunt down the Dragoons if that was the case.

[LiGhtningFF13]

Snop/Riches ... yea luv u too guys!

[Strum Wealh]

Kyone Akashi, on 10 January 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

Thanks for the novel quote! Given the context of its use - a personal vendetta against an already hostile merc (against whom the DtM edict would apply even by my aforementioned interpretation) - I would have preferred something more obvious, but at least this is something more than just the name. I really wish the writers would flesh out this little detail for good.

Well, one would have thought the text of the edict itself, or at least some more details about it, would have appeared in the book named after said edict!
Alas, 'twasn't to be...

Kyone Akashi, on 10 January 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

That said, the Mercenaries Supplemental sourcebook (which has some really cool background and RPG stuff for mercs, btw!) mentions a "mass exodus of small mercenary units, many of which had decades-long ties to the Combine" after the edict was issues, yet also has the 789th Striker aka Crater Cobras being contracted by the DC in 3050. Weird.

Personally, I imagine that "mercs who wished to renounce their vile ways and seek a more honorable path in citizenship and permanent service of the Combine (or could keep up the appearances of doing so)" were more likely to keep their heads.
There'd also be the whole "what Takashi doesn't know and/or can't reach doesn't hurt the Combine's ability to bolster its forces in time of need".

[AaronWolf]

Kyone Akashi, on 25 October 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

I think the forum is filled with threads like these - it should not be too difficult to locate them after a short search.

However, I have compiled a quick overview that includes some of the 'Mechs available in MWO. It should be stressed, however, that technically every 'Mech can turn up in any faction. This is the nature of both salvage/capture as well as planets with factories changing ownership.

Davion (French-English)
- Focus on smart tactics and strategy, generally enjoy a chivalrous portrayal
- Ballistic weapons (light autocannons and MGs)
- Locust, Spider, Centurion, Griffin, Jagermech, Thunderbolt, Stalker, Victor

Kurita (Japanese, Arab minority)
- Honor code, samurai, dominated by tradition, warfare = form of art
- Energy weapons (lasers and PPC)
- Jenner, Locust, Griffin, Wolverine, Catapult-K2, Dragon, Awesome, Stalker

Liao (Chinese-Russian)
- Service to the State, sacrifice expected
- Asymmetric, electronic warfare (ECM, Beagle, Narc, TAG)
- Locust, Raven, Blackjack, Shadowhawk, Cataphract, Catapult, Awesome, Victor

Marik (cultural melting pot: European, Oriental, American and Hindu)
- Strong focus on combined arms tactics
- Missiles (SRM, LRM)
- Locust, Spider, Hunchback, Wolverine, Orion, Thunderbolt, Awesome, Stalker

Rasalhague (Scandinavian)
- Fierce freedom fighters guarding their independence
- Cheap, efficient weapons (SRM, flamers, machine guns, small/medium lasers)
- Jenner, Locust, Griffin, Hunchback, Dragon, Thunderbolt, Awesome, Stalker

Steiner (German-English)
- Economic powerhouse, prefer overwhelming might over tactical finesse
- Ballistic weapons (heavy autocannons and gauss)
- Commando, Locust, Griffin, Shadowhawk, Quickdraw, Thunderbolt, Atlas, Stalker

This is a very clean way of putting each house.

And putting our tactics in a good way. House Marik uses all as one in a unified combat system to dominate the field as much as possible. Atleast what I have read in the Fluff/Lore.

Marik was also known for lots of infighting. With a very very diverse populace and army. I will call them "Fiefs" for the moment, since I can't remember the proper name, but it was common for many units to have lances of mechs not found in the FWL manufacturer line. So it was (Supposedly) common to have access to enemy equipment. Though probably very old/not up to date in comparison to the newest stuff other Houses/Factions had access to.

Edit: Please correct me if I made mistakes, my memory on this is blurry and muddled. XD

Edited by AaronWolf, 10 January 2014 - 02:25 PM.

[Kyone Akashi]

Strum Wealh, on 10 January 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

Well, one would have thought the text of the edict itself, or at least some more details about it, would have appeared in the book named after said edict!
Alas, 'twasn't to be...

And I actually purchased the PDF only because that was the one thing I wanted from it...

Strum Wealh, on 10 January 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

Personally, I imagine that "mercs who wished to renounce their vile ways and seek a more honorable path in citizenship and permanent service of the Combine (or could keep up the appearances of doing so)" were more likely to keep their heads.
There'd also be the whole "what Takashi doesn't know and/or can't reach doesn't hurt the Combine's ability to bolster its forces in time of need".

Hai, both are valid points. It would at least avoid a contradiction between the sources - and allow MWO mercs to serve Kurita, too.

We know that Theodore-kanrei was practically calling the shots in the DCMS, anyways, and given the FRR's independence, the Ghost regiments, or the military reforms, condoning merc activities would not be the only matter he would enforce against his father the Coordinator's wishes. This would further explain Tomoe-sama being able to hire three regiments of mercenaries at around that time without getting into trouble with the ISF, which would otherwise surely act against Combine officers defying the Coordinator's edicts.

In fact, given that Coordinator Theodore was prone to issue his orders in the form of heiku, it might have been officially left open to interpretation by individual officers and nobles, regardless of his original intentions!

AaronWolf, on 10 January 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

This is a very clean way of putting each house.

It certainly is! I tried to give each nation a specific and unique "portfolio" to make it easier for players to choose the faction that seems the most appealing, so in addition to national origins and a general description I gave each House only two 'Mechs per weight class (pulling the most prominent ones that are also available in MWO from the random assignment tables in ER3052) and a unique weapon preference (hopefully reflecting background descriptions and 'Mech loadout preferences).
Of course, just about any 'Mech and any weapon can be found in the employ of each of the Successor States, but that doesn't help people who cannot decide!

Anyways, in case of the FWL, I considered that the unified combat system you mentioned might be reflected as better artillery support, and given that missiles were the one system I could think no better "owner" for ...

I confess, since MWO is all about 'Mechs and has no vehicles or infantry, this was the only way that came to mind. If you or anyone else have more information about how the FWL runs its 'Mech units, however, and what this doctrine you mentioned means for League regiments (in comparison to the regiments of the other Houses, who also contain a degree of armor, infantry and aerospace assets by default), further input is appreciated!

[AaronWolf]

Kyone Akashi, on 10 January 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

It certainly is! I tried to give each nation a specific and unique "portfolio" to make it easier for players to choose the faction that seems the most appealing, so in addition to national origins and a general description I gave each House only two 'Mechs per weight class (pulling the most prominent ones that are also available in MWO from the random assignment tables in ER3052) and a unique weapon preference (hopefully reflecting background descriptions and 'Mech loadout preferences).
Of course, just about any 'Mech and any weapon can be found in the employ of each of the Successor States, but that doesn't help people who cannot decide!

Anyways, in case of the FWL, I considered that the unified combat system you mentioned might be reflected as better artillery support, and given that missiles were the one system I could think no better "owner" for ...

I confess, since MWO is all about 'Mechs and has no vehicles or infantry, this was the only way that came to mind. If you or anyone else have more information about how the FWL runs its 'Mech units, however, and what this doctrine you mentioned means for League regiments (in comparison to the regiments of the other Houses, who also contain a degree of armor, infantry and aerospace assets by default), further input is appreciated!

Well, you did get it right! Artillery Barrages fit the House a lot. Atleast in my opinion. I remember a lot of the novels explaining that Marik units would usually have much of their lance outfitted with LRM's to batter opponents from afar before moving in for a kill. Or a light being designated with a TAG so ground forces could unload from MTracks/AFV's with portable LRM batteries.

Bombard, Invade, Conquer!

[Kyone Akashi]

Thanks, that sets my mind at ease! The FWL is not my specialty - though I did read a bit about them. The novel "Black Dragon" had some very interesting background about the culture of the Trinity Worlds, a region within the League where the book's protagonists, Camacho's Caballeros hail from. Otherwise, I only know the basics from the main rulebook and general documents like the 20 year update or the BT universe introduction.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 10 January 2014 - 06:06 PM.

[Abrams]

Inner Sphere: just after the clan invasion;

Most of the info here is of how the houses are pre clan invasion. All of the houses have a new role to fill / the coming of the clans get the house to work together (for a while / some more than others) with the reforming of the Star League. (The Wolf’s Dragoons hold a conference and bring the IS leadership up to speed on the clans)

Game plan to fight the clans by house:

DAVION: they are now a combined house with Steiner, so they will end up sending all kinds of units to Steiner planets, so much so that they make a deal with Kurita that they will leave there common boarder alone to give the clans there full attention. This is one of the three houses that capture clan tech is sent back to reverse engineer to be built in its factories.

STEINER: The clans came at this house from the north. (Periphery) It’s like the boarder of the US and Canada and future prince just happens to be in this area when the clans show up. So plan on Community Warfare to have many missions to get the prince off the front lines. (both house and merc units) As this house has the big bucks many merc units will be brought into this combat zone to slow down the clans. There are also some major mech factories in this area that both Jade Falcon and Wolf fight over. Overall the plan is to stop the clans short of the capital planet.

KURITA: This is a clone of what Steiner is putting up with, just not with the direct support of another house (but Com Star has been giving them Star League to keep them in the fight against Davion) Again we have the future leader being in the path of the clans and get stuck on a captured planet so plan on having to rescue the prince if joining up with this house. This house has a form of dueling rules that it puts to good effect against the clans. But on the down side there capital planet gets invaded by the clans and it takes the rest of the IS to turn the tide.

LIAO: If it wasn’t for the clan invasion, this house would have been defeated by house Davion. (The joining of Davion / Steiner was brought on by an attack of this house) Liao plays nice to begin with but will later attack the planets lost to house
Davion using the tech from the battlefield of the clans. They are not directly affected by the clans are looking to take back what was once theirs and attack a weakened house Davion.

Free Rasalhague Republic: The new kids on the block! This “house” was created as a buffer state between house Steiner and Kurita. Kurita was fearful that this new super house of Steiner and Davion would end up hitting house Kurita from both sides. As such this house was not able to offer much of a fight to the clans and if not for Com Star stepping in, they would most likely have been taken out of the fight early on.

MARIK: Yet another house with no boarder under threat by the clans. It is decided that all of their industrial might will be retooled to support the fight against the clans. So this is Wal-mart of the IS in the form of mechs, weapons and ammo for the fight with the clans. This bring the house all kinds of wealth that it has never seen before. (replacing Steiner as the builders of the IS)

I would add “ComStar” to the mix as a major player to this game. As the IS mix of cell phone company and acting as a “neutral” force to fill the role of a Switzerland for the Inner Sphere. They are the first to contact / work with the clans with handling the admin duties of captured worlds. This will change once they find out the clans finish line is earth. (The heart of ComStar) They have a massive army but it is spread across the whole IS. (think of the USA’s 50 states each having a national guard force) As played out in the mother of all battles to stop the clans from taking earth. (Battle of Tukayyid)

[Julian Langsdorf III]

This is an excerpt from a sidebar in the book "Combat Operations", pg. 13-14. Its relatively short, concise, I thought it did a great job of summarizing how the Free Worlds League Military operates on a strategic level.

Free Worlds League summary from the book “Combat Operations”.

Free Worlds League

Though now unified under a single command structure, the FWLM lacks experience in large-scale coordinated combat operations, instead relying on the initiative of individual commanders and the orders of regional marshals. This system is a legacy of a decentralized system that historically caused many command and control problems. Operation Guerrero in 3057 proved that the League could mount a substantial coordinated offensive but whether it could repeat that performance against a better prepared foe is less certain. League troops are well trained and equipped with the most up-to-date weapons, vehicles and protective equipment in the Inner Sphere, though several decades of relative peace have left the FWLM with a lower overall experience level than other powers. The League has immense stockpiles of support material held at central depots rather than assigned to specific units. Together with a preponderance of agile medium-weight vehicles, Battlemechs, and aerospace forces including the most powerful navy in the Inner Sphere, this facilitates the League’s preference for a more mobile form of warfare that adapts to enemy attacks and allows League forces to stage their own lightning raids against targets of opportunity. They rely as much on surprise as raw firepower to achieve their objectives, believing that a single well-placed knife thrust is more effective than a flurry of hammer blows.

[Too Much Love]

dal10, on 26 October 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

Davions are basically generic white knights in space.

Kurita is generic samurai in space

Steiner is generic prussians in space

Liao is Generic chinese in space

Marik is generic america in space.

FRR is generic vikings in space.

Almost correct, but Davions are USA in space (thats why they are white knights), and Marik is EU.