14 replies to this topic

[Tooooonpie]

From what I can gather, one of the key reasons behind the recent Catapult arm change is that it will mean all LRM based Catapults will share the same mesh, which is a good idea.

The problem: The larger C4 arm was chosen rather than the C1/A1 arm, which means that its now looking quite odd since the C4 arm doesn't really look right compared to the C1/A1 aesthetically, ignoring the increased sized hitbox. The second problem seems to be that SRM's are now added to the outside of missile bays, which means that the arms are now even larger.

My solution: Make it so that all LRM Catapults have the C1/A1 sized arms, but keep SRM's on the outside of the Missile Bays.

This would allow all Catapult LRM meshes to stay the same for customization purposes, and SRM's being on the outside would be no bigger than the C4 sized arms so no-where near as bad as it is currently.

This would also allow the artists vision of smaller missile bays on the outside to be intact, and I think personally would be the best solution to please both players and PGI, and being reasonably easy to implement in-game.

Thoughts?

[Malleus011]

C1 style boxes are certainly much preferred! I'd take this solution over the current situation.

That said, I'd rather have missiles under the tube capacity inside the box, whatever they are - let's do it right if we're going to do it.

And the K2 PPC arms should revert to the old mark.

[DirePhoenix]

Tooooonpie, on 09 November 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

From what I can gather, one of the key reasons behind the recent Catapult arm change is that it will mean all LRM based Catapults will share the same mesh, which is a good idea.

The problem: The larger C4 arm was chosen rather than the C1/A1 arm, which means that its now looking quite odd since the C4 arm doesn't really look right compared to the C1/A1 aesthetically, ignoring the increased sized hitbox. The second problem seems to be that SRM's are now added to the outside of missile bays, which means that the arms are now even larger.

My solution: Make it so that all LRM Catapults have the C1/A1 sized arms, but keep SRM's on the outside of the Missile Bays.

This would allow all Catapult LRM meshes to stay the same for customization purposes, and SRM's being on the outside would be no bigger than the C4 sized arms so no-where near as bad as it is currently.

This would also allow the artists vision of smaller missile bays on the outside to be intact, and I think personally would be the best solution to please both players and PGI, and being reasonably easy to implement in-game.

Thoughts?

What if your CPLT has all SRMs instead of LRMs? Do all of your missiles go outside a now empty box?

I think the missile box should work like the SHD torso: two "panels" of up to 10 tubes each inside the box. Except, each of these "panels" accommodate at max 1 weapon, and the LRM15 and LRM20 take up both of these "panels". Any more tubes than that go outside. This should accommodate the following combinations inside the boxes:

C1 (1 missile hardpoint in each arm):
- all launchers (although it can only fit ONE in each arm)

C4 (2 missile hardpoints in each arm):
- any pair of SRM launchers
- 1 SRM launcher, plus 1 LRM5/LRM10
- 1 LRM5/LRM10, plus 1 LRM5/LRM10
- 1 LRM 15
- 1 LRM 20

A1 (3 missile hardpoints in each arm):
- any pair of SRM launchers
- 1 SRM launcher, plus 1 LRM5/LRM10
- 1 LRM5/LRM10, plus 1 LRM5/LRM10
- 1 LRM 15
- 1 LRM 20

If the A1 uses all three hardpoints, it will always have at least one extra set of tubes outside.

The C4 can accomodate several combinations inside its box, but for larger launchers, may have to place some outside the box.

[Tooooonpie]

DirePhoenix, on 09 November 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

What if your CPLT has all SRMs instead of LRMs? Do all of your missiles go outside a now empty box?

I think the missile box should work like the SHD torso: two "panels" of up to 10 tubes each inside the box. Except, each of these "panels" accommodate at max 1 weapon, and the LRM15 and LRM20 take up both of these "panels". Any more tubes than that go outside. This should accommodate the following combinations inside the boxes:

C1 (1 missile hardpoint in each arm):
- all launchers (although it can only fit ONE in each arm)

C4 (2 missile hardpoints in each arm):
- any pair of SRM launchers
- 1 SRM launcher, plus 1 LRM5/LRM10
- 1 LRM5/LRM10, plus 1 LRM5/LRM10
- 1 LRM 15
- 1 LRM 20

A1 (3 missile hardpoints in each arm):
- any pair of SRM launchers
- 1 SRM launcher, plus 1 LRM5/LRM10
- 1 LRM5/LRM10, plus 1 LRM5/LRM10
- 1 LRM 15
- 1 LRM 20

If the A1 uses all three hardpoints, it will always have at least one extra set of tubes outside.

The C4 can accomodate several combinations inside its box, but for larger launchers, may have to place some outside the box.

I'd vote that x amount of SRM's go inside, then the rest go on the outside. And your suggestion sounds like it would work beautifully, but I'm just trying to think of the easiest and most likely solution that PGI will implement.

You have to remember, PGI want to make sure that the main mesh is the same between all three LRM Catapults, and the mesh includes a missile bay, the same sized missile bay between the three - So keeping this is mind, I'm trying to keep the solution as simple as possible so it will be easy as pie to fix

Edited by Tooooonpie, 09 November 2013 - 08:00 AM.

[Kojin]

It doesn't need to be based on tube count, it could be based on slot count. The square bins should hold either 3 or 4 slots worth with the extras going outside; a slot to each side and 2 slots below max. Fairly easy and allows further options build wise with later implemented weapons.

Fairly simple I think

[CrashieJ]

all LRMs stay inside and are subject to the door mechanic (has delay)

all SRMs go outside and are not subject to the door mechanic (no delay)

Catapults are supposed to be a support mech lobbing LRMS.
you want to add SRMs? fine, but prepare to have them show for all the world to see

[XphR]

gavilatius, on 09 November 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

all LRMs stay inside and are subject to the door mechanic (has delay)

all SRMs go outside and are not subject to the door mechanic (no delay)

Catapults are supposed to be a support mech lobbing LRMS.
you want to add SRMs? fine, but prepare to have them show for all the world to see

This is a fair compromise as well, has anyone tested door delay with the current junk style loadouts?

[MrBlonde42]

XphR, on 09 November 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

This is a fair compromise as well, has anyone tested door delay with the current junk style loadouts?

Yes I have tested this delay on my C4 with pairs of LRM10s and LRM5s. The "outside" launchers delay firing untill the doors open for the "inside" launchers.

[XphR]

MrBlonde42, on 09 November 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Yes I have tested this delay on my C4 with pairs of LRM10s and LRM5s. The "outside" launchers delay firing untill the doors open for the "inside" launchers.

As I feared, but thank you.

Also would you post again so as I could give you an extra like for your DA quote?

Edited by XphR, 09 November 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[MrBlonde42]

Definitely. Bonus quote, "I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound the make as they fly by." -Douglas Adams

Edited by MrBlonde42, 12 November 2013 - 11:05 AM.

[DGuedes]

Man, i think everything was just fine, you know, if every cat now have the same arms, whats the point of the word " variants" ?
I know the size of the arms dont represent everything, we have some different hardpoints but, the cool thing about variants is the numer of missile slots, it makes each variant more appropriate for some weapon systems. Complain because you cant fire 18 missiles at once? PGI will now do the same to every other mech? I must admit that now, for example, the atlas look great with 2 Ultra AC/5, and the cat K2 dont have machinegun meshes when you equip other ballistics, but its not about performance, its just visual changes right?Changing the number of missiles fired at a time will kinda ruin the fun of each variant, each mech have its number of missile slots, you can equip other weapon system but not exactly the mech will " grow" more slots , so you can fire everything at once, lets take the Centurion CN9-A for example: you have 10 missile slots on this mech, you can equip an LRM20, but if you do , you know the missiles will be fired in 2 salvos, you still have 20, but not fired at once, so, maybe, you dont like when the LRM is "partitioned" and will prefer to equip just an LRM10, so you can fire everything the weapon have at once, and use the tonnage you saved for more ammo or other weapon. Each centurion have the same number of slots, yeah i know, but we have differences when comes to the atlas, or the commando, or even the awesome AWS-9M, and the Pretty baby( 9M - 2 slots on the left arm, and PB - 4 slots). The missiles are partitioned individually, IMHO, it even needed to be treated as a whole, i mean , if you have 2 SRM6 on the pretty baby left arm, that have 4 slots on it, you fire both srm6 in 2 salvos, 8missiles, and then 4 missiles, if you shoot both weapons at the same time, so, you have 4 slots, but 8 missiles come from it, i think if you fired both srm6 at the same time, the guns needed to be fired in 3 salvos of 4 missiles, the maximum number of missile slots on the mech. And i have a question: If now every catapult have the bigger arms, that have 20 missile slots, why the hell , when you try to equip a total of 18 missiles(3 srm6) you need to put 2 of them outside the launchers? I would really appreciate if everything was just like it was since the beginnig, but people are asking for a change, so... maybe we can just have the smaller arms when we have a maximum of 15 missiles equiped, and the bigger arm for 16 +

[Corvus Antaka]

PGI made "Racks" ie the 2 rakcs that undersling the box when you add LRMS.

the inside of the box should hold 3 racks for the A1/c1 (lrm15) and 4 racks for the c4 (lrm 20)

those racks should ideally fill first, and then overflows would attach to the exterior.

but i think the way it works with the models & such that i'm not sure that is possible, which is why we got the wierder racks we got.

i really would like the c1 to get the old box size back though. the poor c1 has been murdered by bad new founders skin and the box change that makes it just look wierd.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 12 November 2013 - 04:58 PM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

- I vote make the launchers themselves change, no external pods. are we going to give the naga/longbow/stalker and other lrm boats this treatment? i shudder to think, we all joke about atlas's and awesome's "wide" stature, but we are talking a literal walking BARN DOOR.

the launchers in the cat should have up to 20 actual missile slots in a pod. this should be calculated by the total amount of missiles to be launched, IE 40 missiles would shoot in 2 salvos of 20, 60 would be 3 salvos of 20 est. any more missiles that get fired launch in a second or third salvo, like any other mech already does. so i just want to pull it closer to what is already a standard.

- if a launcher has an lrm 20+/srm18+ (uses at least 1 more then 15 slots/missiles) it is a full size launcher as we have now (C4) 20 missile slots/ a salvo max

- if a launcher has an lrm15/srm12 (uses at least 1 more then 10 slots/missiles) it has the old smaller launcher arm (C1/A1 old) 15 missile slots/ a salvo max

- if a launcher has an lrm10/srm6/streak6 (uses 10 slots or less/missiles) or less it gets a new smaller launcher box that is sized appropriately. (new slightly smaller pod) 10 missile slots/ a salvo max

i don't see why streak users are so heavily penalized, it should not matter how many actual missile hard-points are full, rather it should be based on how many tubes are used.

also this way you can clearly identify what weapons a cat has, he has the big packs (current c4) he must be packing some lrm or srm heat, anything smaller and you can gander he is more balanced.

it wont reveal whether you have lrms or srms at first (which is good), it will make it predictable to consider a cat with small pods might be a streak/ssrm2 cat. but it wont rule out that he might have 2 lrm 10's.

at least i think that's a balanced approach. the cat already has huge missle pods i dont really see the need to make them any bigger at all, rather they should be smaller in some way if they aren't fully populated with missiles.

we should have the option of removing the bay door for pure srm builds at the cost of losing their extra protection and the benefit of not having huge dumbo ear bay doors popped open and of course no delay launch.

Edited by Mellifluer, 12 November 2013 - 05:36 PM.

[Damia Savon]

If fail to see why the missile pods need standardized at all. They have not been a problem so far, so why mess with it now?

I get that they want the external view of the Mech to reflect the actual load out. The thing is the Catapult was never intended to mount multiple large LRM racks, let alone SRMs and streaks. Letting Cats do both is what caused this stupid problem.

Want to run LRMS, play a cat. Want to run SRMs? Beg for a ButterBee hero mech or run a different one.

[Kazairl]

I always preferred the C4's doors over the A1/C1's. They only open as far as they need to.