252 replies to this topic

[Lyoto Machida]

Nick Makiaveli, on 26 December 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Yet, a quick win is 25K and getting in more matches over time rather than running down that last mech etc means more money.

Also, salvage for all 12 mechs is typically 10-13K. Also winning by cap in Conquest means you get max resources and thus more c-bills.

Have you done the math, or are you just assuming?

You have to balance money AND fun or it just becomes work.

[Sandpit]

Isn't this what Skirmish is for? Why is this even still a topic?

[Nick Makiaveli]

Ransack, on 26 December 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Wow, a little late to this party aren't you. Here's the thing.No one is talking about conquest. A question was asked, and I answered based on my experience. I personally do not sit there with a pen and paper, but I do see totals like 189 K for killing all and significantly less for caps. Perhaps over time it does average out. Who cares! perception is a cruel *****. By your logic, running in and commiting suicide by running into a pack alone and dying in two minutes, exiting and doing the same thing in another mech rinse/repeat is profitable too. Do whatever works for you. I don't shivaget.

Capping is capping when it comes to the idiots. I've been told to stop capping in Conquest as well.

Here's the thing. This is a team game, not a solo one. So the fact that you can make 190K doesn't mean I can. But we both benefit more from a win than a loss.

Also, Assault is all about the base. That's why it's there, that's why you get a bonus for winning by cap, and get a bonus for capping. That's the shiv you don't get to borrow your phrase. So bitching about it just makes you look like, well the kind of person who would ***** about winning the game via the method the devs put in place and provided bonuses for.

Also, "by my logic"? Umm, no by the math. Yes, even a dev said you can make more money by fighting, dying, and launching a new match in another mech. Also, yes cap rushing is a cheesy way to make quick cash. I don't advocate it unless you drop against a Steiner scout lance in which it's all about the cheese.

Lyoto Machida, on 26 December 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

You have to balance money AND fun or it just becomes work.

Good point and I think too many people are forgetting it's supposed to be fun.

Sandpit, on 26 December 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

Isn't this what Skirmish is for? Why is this even still a topic?

This is what I should've said and moved on.

[MischiefSC]

I think you missed my point -

I don't mind someone trying to hide on Skirmish. I have yet to see it work. Have seen it tried a few times. Wouldn't mind if someone did nor hold it against him. Certainly wouldn't tell him to go suicide. I would say that if he can he should try and steal a couple kills from crippled enemies. Otherwise go ahead and try to hide. I find the reasoning silly (KDR? Really? The time wasted isn't worth it IMO) but whatever.

Yes, capping is much easier. Here are my stats:

Assault 2,361 1,243 1,112 1.12 1,492,676 212,175,758

Conquest 1,563 880 683 1.29 1,155,518 159,926,898

Oh how they suffered the last 6 months - I tried to master Dragons, Locusts, Tbolts and Battlemasters. Still though, capping is a hell of a lot easier than winning a fight.

I used to play a lot of Conquest but the pay was just so feeble by comparison since the 'tweak' to reduce pay.

I'm surprised you had a 3-game streak like that but it happens in every game mode, just less in Skirmish in my experience. Significantly less. I've had 16 game losing streaks. Look at this tear-jerker -
SHADOW HAWK SHD-2D2 42 15 26 0.58 20 34 0.59 8,922 28,691 03:23:19

I just can't make a Shawk rock. By comparison -
HIGHLANDER HGN-733 209 126 83 1.52 241 119 2.03 74,591 146,259 18:22:15

That's not a poptart - that's the missile boat one. that's as an LRM boat or LLs+ACs+SRMs as an ambush predator with a standard engine.

Anyway.

I've got no issues with stats being public. I'd absolutely disagree about premades being more or less significant in Skirmish. A 4man of Spiders with cap accelerators running cap-wins on Assault are pretty significant. Dull, but significant.

I'll absolutely stand by everything I've said before though. Capping reduces tactics. It provides easy tricks for forcing the other team to specific locations. It dramatically limits tactical flexibility by the inclusion of magic squares. Skirmish is harder - much harder. Sure, you might just get lucky but if you want to win consistently you have to out-coordinate and out maneuver the enemy without any cheap tricks. Firing lines, flanking, backstabbing, mobility. No easy 'set up poptart here' locations. There's no telling where the battle will take place. you want to control the time and place of engagement you've got to work at it.

It certainly rewards coordination much better.

Skirmish is always the hard win. You get creamed, outmaneuvered, out-played you can't just run to cap. Your options are wide open, there isn't a 'do this or get capped' leash tied to everything.

If someone does manage to run and hide, so what? If the 1 in 100 times you spend a match looking for a powered down mech drives you crazy then play a mode where the 1 in 10 times you didn't camp your base got you capped out 3 minutes into the match without a kill or assist or more than 50 points of damage. Assault absolutely does leave you at the mercy of your team. In Skirmish you really can make the difference. That isn't everyones thing but pretending that capping is anything but a crutch is disingenuous. It's the magic box to provide the impatient a cheap trick, a shortcut, to influence the battlefield or win a match by standing still for 60 seconds - or lose it because someone else did the same. Skirmish takes that out. If that's more risk than some people enjoy, well, Assault and Conquest are still there.

Edited by MischiefSC, 26 December 2013 - 08:21 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Edited to add -

When I got on tonight I forgot to select Skirmish. Ran a Tbolt SE (because I'm a *********) and got Assault.

A premade 4man with cap accelerators on the other team on Tourmaline did a cap-rush, ending the match in 3 minutes. Which they did specifically to troll everyone on both teams because they felt bitter about Skirmish. It was a reminder of exactly why Skirmish will never, ever have the trolling issues that Assault always does. What's someone going to do on Skirmish - manage to somehow always be the person to survive to the end?

The tactical brilliance of running wide left or right on a big map and standing in a square for about 60 seconds for instant victory. The cunning brilliance, the daring bravery! It was.... every bit as amazing as I remembered Assault to be.

Then drop Skirmish. 12 minute match, 11 to 12 finish with a crippled, unarmed Atlas missing with his last shot of AC ammo against a one-legged, dark red internals on all torsos LRM boat Kentaro. It was a brutal, hard-fought match that swung from 3-0 to 5-8 to 11 to 12. Could have been either teams match and in hindsight almost every single shot everyone took or missed mattered on the win/loss of the match. It was a brilliant example of how your playing affects the outcome of every match. For example if I'd held off on firing my 2 extra MLs to avoid overheating I'd have gotten one more shot on that Griffin and killed him, who in turn wouldn't have required so many shots from the Atlas and he'd have had enough ammo to finish the Kentaro.

That sort of match doesn't happen on Assault, maybe once in a blue moon. In Skirmish it's par for the course. We had a good 200 ton advantage too, and still lost - because the other team played better, caught us in the open and drew us out of cover to better take advantage of their mobility and ranged weapons.

Yeah. Skirmish is hardcore mode. You'll win or lose based on how you play, not the layout of the other team and a couple people feeling like trolling.

[Diego Angelus]

@MischiefSC

Hi we cross words again on this topic

As I said before Assault/Conquest is always going to be more tactical only problem with it is that rewards for capping are pathetic so people don't bother to play mode as it should they act like its skirmish while some still try to attack/defend. I mean its sad when we get victory by cap because no one gets Cbills. I'm 100% sure that if rewards were better for cap people would try to cap base more and that means teams would have to defend them harder so we would see team split into attack/defend forces and created more movement on maps. Hardcore mode ? its same as any other mode same goes down in assault and conquest you will win or lose based on how you play. lets lets be real people play assault like its skirmish so we have lots of those situations you were talking about only difference is that people bring more heavier mechs on skirmish.

I hope to get good rewards on wining by cap so I can say gj to light for giving us free victory and c-bills in short time because enemy team was dumb and didn't want to react on caps and play mode correctly.

[Spawnsalot]

In Assault you're stuck with a maximum radius, you go outside this and you won't get back in time if someone goes for a cap, this limits where you can go thus limiting your options for engaging opponents to certain areas, limiting available tactics.

This is why, for example, poptarting is very popular - wait for your opponents to enter the kill zone they need to cross to reach your base, your opponents cotton on to where you are, the match degenerates into plinking at each other from cover until someone gets bored and pushes, dies and it tips the balance so that lights can squeeze through for a cap while everyone else stomps the opponents in their confusion.

Without bases you're free to flank and destroy poptarts, which is why they aren't so prevalent (my own experience) in Skirmish. Nearly every Assault match plays out the same because you *have*to stay in a certain area or you will lose.

If tears for capping in Assault were bumped back up to previous levels you wouldn't see more tactics, you'd see what we had before only more pronounced - base swaps all day long. Split the team into attack/defense? The zerg will whomp your defense and settle in for a lightening cap before your attack team can get back because now your attack team doesn't have enough people to out-cap the enemy.

People will descend in droves in cap-accelerated quick mechs for quick match turnovers and rake in the c-bills and the only defense against this will be to not play the game by sitting in your base waiting for the enemy, while they do the same because it's the only surefire way too avoid a loss.

Before Skirmish people would yell at people for capping in Assault because it negated the point of facing the mech they'd carefully designed of against others who have done the same. All the weapon, heatsink, engine and armour tweaking meant nothing because it was all trumped by sitting in a box and ending the match. It was boring.

[Diego Angelus]

Spawnsalot, on 27 December 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

In Assault you're stuck with a maximum radius, you go outside this and you won't get back in time if someone goes for a cap, this limits where you can go thus limiting your options for engaging opponents to certain areas, limiting available tactics.

This is why, for example, poptarting is very popular - wait for your opponents to enter the kill zone they need to cross to reach your base, your opponents cotton on to where you are, the match degenerates into plinking at each other from cover until someone gets bored and pushes, dies and it tips the balance so that lights can squeeze through for a cap while everyone else stomps the opponents in their confusion.

Without bases you're free to flank and destroy poptarts, which is why they aren't so prevalent (my own experience) in Skirmish. Nearly every Assault match plays out the same because you *have*to stay in a certain area or you will lose.

If tears for capping in Assault were bumped back up to previous levels you wouldn't see more tactics, you'd see what we had before only more pronounced - base swaps all day long. Split the team into attack/defense? The zerg will whomp your defense and settle in for a lightening cap before your attack team can get back because now your attack team doesn't have enough people to out-cap the enemy.

People will descend in droves in cap-accelerated quick mechs for quick match turnovers and rake in the c-bills and the only defense against this will be to not play the game by sitting in your base waiting for the enemy, while they do the same because it's the only surefire way too avoid a loss.

Before Skirmish people would yell at people for capping in Assault because it negated the point of facing the mech they'd carefully designed of against others who have done the same. All the weapon, heatsink, engine and armour tweaking meant nothing because it was all trumped by sitting in a box and ending the match. It was boring.

But you forget that reward for wining by cap in assault mode sucks so people don't even try to use that tactics expect few lights in some games and they never get help nor anyone tries they would rather go and get damage done to get c-bills. I play all modes and only problem I have is reward that is like losing if you win by early cap and that should be rewarded a lot you effectively won by best possible way and you get reward like you lost sigh. If you don't want to get caped you have to have quick reaction force to prevent caps otherwise you have to have someone defend it.

All I'm saying Is buff reward for wining by cap and see what happens you have zerg move and suddenly their base gets caped by mediums/lights if they come back they can pull out no problem pick them off simple. On skirmish that tactic is impossible and that is why its less tactical.

[The Flying Gecko]

I like the IDEA of base capping, the execution is bunk.
The rewards are such a joke, it hurts YOUR team to cap...
"YEAH!, my double xp 1st win of the day! I did 86 points of damage and then we capped the base WHOO!! Oh wait... I got **** all for that, and the rest of my team got completely shafted."
And THAT is bad game design.

The ONLY time it's even SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE to cap, is when your team is losing by a large margin =/


EDIT: AWESOME IDEA!!: INCREASE BASE CAP REWARDS BASED ON TIME-REMAINING
(FAST CAP = MOAR REWARD)

Edited by The Flying Gecko, 27 December 2013 - 03:52 AM.

[Spawnsalot]

Diego Angelus, on 27 December 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

But you forget that reward for wining by cap in assault mode sucks so people don't even try to use that tactics expect few lights in some games and they never get help nor anyone tries they would rather go and get damage done to get c-bills. I play all modes and only problem I have is reward that is like losing if you win by early cap and that should be rewarded a lot you effectively won by best possible way and you get reward like you lost sigh. If you don't want to get caped you have to have quick reaction force to prevent caps otherwise you have to have someone defend it.

That's pretty much reinforcing what I was getting at: cap rewards in Assault suck (and they purposely suck because they were lowered to encourage people to go shoot it out first instead of heading straight for the cap) which is another reason why people get shouted at for capping, because they're screwing the rest of the server out of needed c-bills/exp.
And trust me people *do* go for the quick cap often because all they care about is The Win^TM. (Or as several "people" have mentioned, the tears...)

Unless you're playing on VOIP with an organised team you're very rarely going to have an organised defence force - you may get one or, if you're lucky, two team mates guarding the base because no one likes sitting in a red square while everyone else goes off to shoot giant robots with lasers.
They get swarmed and die and you either lose to a cap or they peel more people enjoying their firefight back to shoo the cappers away so they can continue their firefight, while your dwindling forces get mashed by the opponents.

Quote

All I'm saying Is buff reward for wining by cap and see what happens you have zerg move and suddenly their base gets caped by mediums/lights if they come back they can pull out no problem pick them off simple. On skirmish that tactic is impossible and that is why its less tactical.

If you increase the rewards the game mode will devolve into entire teams of fast lights/meds with cap accelerators and the team that splits up will lose every time unless the cap-zerg does something monumentally stupid - the defenders will be swarmed while the attacking group are caught halfway across the map, too far away to turn back and stop a cap and not enough numbers or time to out-cap the opposition. Even if they did get back to their own base they will be trickling in and getting minced by 12 (its was bad enough when it was 8!) entrenched mechs just waiting for you to come back.

It's not a tactic - it's a leash. It's a mechanism that forces the entire team to drop what they're doing and return to base to focus on one/two mechs or face having the match end soon after. The only surefire way to defend against is to camp you're own base - anything else is inefficient and puts your team at risk. Neither option is fun or engaging - Skrimish has a myriad of tactics that are actually useful to combating the enemy, not making sure your opponents don't press the "End Match" button.

Just off the top of my head - how would you feel about an alteration to Assault where you still have bases, rewards for damage and kills are lowered to Conquest levels (or lower maybe?) and the team receives a bonus of exp and c-bills for being in possession of their base at the end of the match but teams also receive a bonus for possessing the other teams base as well?

Lose your base and get destroyed - you get kill/damage pay and the standard loss pay (100exp and some c-bills I think?).
Lose your base but destroy the enemy - kill/damage pay plus standard win pay.
Cap enemy base, lose yours and get destroyed - cap bonus, kill/damage pay plus loss pay.
Cap enemy base, keep your base and destroy the enemy - cap bonus, base retention bonus, kill/damage pay and standard win pay.
etc. etc. you get the idea.

[RichAC]

MischiefSC, on 26 December 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

I think you missed my point -

I don't mind someone trying to hide on Skirmish. I have yet to see it work. Have seen it tried a few times. Wouldn't mind if someone did nor hold it against him. Certainly wouldn't tell him to go suicide. I would say that if he can he should try and steal a couple kills from crippled enemies. Otherwise go ahead and try to hide. I find the reasoning silly (KDR? Really? The time wasted isn't worth it IMO) but whatever.

Yes, capping is much easier. Here are my stats:

Assault 2,361 1,243 1,112 1.12 1,492,676 212,175,758

Conquest 1,563 880 683 1.29 1,155,518 159,926,898

Oh how they suffered the last 6 months - I tried to master Dragons, Locusts, Tbolts and Battlemasters. Still though, capping is a hell of a lot easier than winning a fight.

I used to play a lot of Conquest but the pay was just so feeble by comparison since the 'tweak' to reduce pay.

I'm surprised you had a 3-game streak like that but it happens in every game mode, just less in Skirmish in my experience. Significantly less. I've had 16 game losing streaks. Look at this tear-jerker -
SHADOW HAWK SHD-2D2 42 15 26 0.58 20 34 0.59 8,922 28,691 03:23:19

I just can't make a Shawk rock. By comparison -
HIGHLANDER HGN-733 209 126 83 1.52 241 119 2.03 74,591 146,259 18:22:15

That's not a poptart - that's the missile boat one. that's as an LRM boat or LLs+ACs+SRMs as an ambush predator with a standard engine.

Anyway.

I've got no issues with stats being public. I'd absolutely disagree about premades being more or less significant in Skirmish. A 4man of Spiders with cap accelerators running cap-wins on Assault are pretty significant. Dull, but significant.

I'll absolutely stand by everything I've said before though. Capping reduces tactics. It provides easy tricks for forcing the other team to specific locations. It dramatically limits tactical flexibility by the inclusion of magic squares. Skirmish is harder - much harder. Sure, you might just get lucky but if you want to win consistently you have to out-coordinate and out maneuver the enemy without any cheap tricks. Firing lines, flanking, backstabbing, mobility. No easy 'set up poptart here' locations. There's no telling where the battle will take place. you want to control the time and place of engagement you've got to work at it.

It certainly rewards coordination much better.

Skirmish is always the hard win. You get creamed, outmaneuvered, out-played you can't just run to cap. Your options are wide open, there isn't a 'do this or get capped' leash tied to everything.

If someone does manage to run and hide, so what? If the 1 in 100 times you spend a match looking for a powered down mech drives you crazy then play a mode where the 1 in 10 times you didn't camp your base got you capped out 3 minutes into the match without a kill or assist or more than 50 points of damage. Assault absolutely does leave you at the mercy of your team. In Skirmish you really can make the difference. That isn't everyones thing but pretending that capping is anything but a crutch is disingenuous. It's the magic box to provide the impatient a cheap trick, a shortcut, to influence the battlefield or win a match by standing still for 60 seconds - or lose it because someone else did the same. Skirmish takes that out. If that's more risk than some people enjoy, well, Assault and Conquest are still there.

So you dont' mind if someone hides in skirmish? well you are the minority.

The fact you feel capping is easier is interesting cause most people i know prefer not to play conquest, because they lose more and feel its not a good game mode for pugs since there is less communication. Maybe now that they have skirmish, they should make capping a base in assault the ONLY way to win haha. Just like LoL. Then their turrets they want to put on bases would actually make sense. and assault wouldn't just be the original skirmish mode.

1.12 vs 1.29 is hardly a huge difference. My stats are pretty much the same. Its due to good matchmaking. For most people its the opposite though. I just noticed I don't have skirmish stats.

You say its rare someone hides on skirmish, and I say its rare a 4 man spider team caps the first couple minutes in assault... I wouldn't exaggerate and say 1-100, but I bet w/e the ratio is its the same for both

. I say its easier to drop solo in skirmish, only because there is no strategy except follow the murder ball. And you will always have your teamates backing you up, unless your really clueless and get caught by yourself somehow. But that does not mean you can make more of a difference by yourself, i think its quite the contrary and your team matters more, as opposed to conquest or assault, where capping could change the tide of the match, even by one person, like a lone medium or light. Or assault capping or defending an assault base by himself...etc... Maybe I can change the tide of a match in skirmish just as much if I took out like 6 guys by myself with my DDC, but what would i be doing by myself? Maybe that shadowhawk can try and flank and take out 6 alone... haha.

The tactics are the same in conquest, except it might be 4v4 instead of 12v12. . The difference is there is strategy involved. You want to draw out a battle, I want to win the war. Skirmish is the aimbot practice mode, and I'm not saying anyone is cheating or that I don't have a positive k/d or need a "crutch". Aim is the only thing you consider valuable or skillful I guess. But ironically in conquest You are actually more likely to be outnumbered where your tactics and aim skills will play even a bigger role.

I just think the game should be more then just who has the best aim or most powerful loadout and armor. It should also be about intelligence and strategy as well. Thats one of the things that attracts me to this game over your typical twitch shooter. Thats what makes this game different. Maybe you should be playing hawken instead. But to each his own.


I play for stats whether good or bad, and I play to win, sue me. Its also what makes sports interesting. It provides a goal, numbers to crunch and accumulate, and doesn't mean I don't like a challenge, although I'm very competitive.

I'm just tired of hearing complaints about capping, or demanding people step off bases or go suicide if they are the last man standing. As if good stats or winning is a bad thing. Start another match or go Quit and pick a different mech lol

Edited by RichAC, 27 December 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[Diego Angelus]

@Spawnsalot

I get it but what is the point on punishing people for doing objective it doesn't makes sense that is what this mode is all about and it devolved to something like skirmish I played few hours today and not once did someone cap or even tried to cap base. Have you thought that maybe it wont devolve its going to play out the way it should because in those matches lights and mediums should shine because of mobility and response time, and if you are slow you can always defend or attack depending on what your light/mediums are doing, and now when we have skirmish maybe its time to change assault to way it should be where capping gives appropriate reward.

[RichAC]

Diego Angelus, on 27 December 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

@Spawnsalot

I get it but what is the point on punishing people for doing objective it doesn't makes sense that is what this mode is all about and it devolved to something like skirmish I played few hours today and not once did someone cap or even tried to cap base. Have you thought that maybe it wont devolve its going to play out the way it should because in those matches lights and mediums should shine because of mobility and response time, and if you are slow you can always defend or attack depending on what your light/mediums are doing, and now when we have skirmish maybe its time to change assault to way it should be where capping gives appropriate reward.

I was thinking since we have skirmish, maybe capping the base should be the only way to win in assault.

Just like in league of legends.

It would make also their plans to put turrets on the bases, that noone even bothers to cap anyways as you point out, more purposeful.

Edited by RichAC, 27 December 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Fut]

RichAC, on 24 December 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

well the other game modes are basically skirmish, plus capping. so i'd have to disagree about your complexity comment. I feel its totally the opposite. I play on any mode all the time though. I don't need to avoid one game mode because I think I lose more on it...I like the challenge of conquest and assault.

This is where I get hung up with the "Skirmish Mode has more Tactical Depth..etc" comments.
How is it possible to remove something from a game mode and have the end result be more than it was before?
It really just leads me to believe that people were not playing Assault properly.

Play Assault exactly how you would play Skirmish, but when you see the big-*** "Somebody is up in your Base!" message, either get yourself to mars get yourself back to protect the base, or message your team to get somebody else back to base.
This whole "being tethered to a red square is limiting my tactical options" nonsense is ridiculous.

[Shade4x]

Nick Makiaveli, on 26 December 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

Here's the thing. This is a team game, not a solo one. So the fact that you can make 190K doesn't mean I can. But we both benefit more from a win than a loss.

The mechanics in MWO do not favor winning over losing at all. They award individual kills and damage mostly with a tiny bit of scouting bonus's. Reguardless if you win or lose, you get the exact same XP/Cash. You get far more cash killing one mech and losing then killing no mech's and winning.

Capping is in the same boat. If you cap and win the game for your team right away you get 125 more xp then the other team that lost. There is no point in capping, as it takes atleast 5 minutes a match. Think about it, you can earn 200k by fighting it out and doing well, or you can earn 25k for ending the match. It takes 5 minutes for capping, and an extra 2-3 minutes to fight it out. So you get around 8 times the amount of cash for fighting, reguardless of winning or losing then capping.

Now winning in this game is litterly worthless. Elo's are based on mech class (light/med/etc) This means whenever you play a mech you don't normally play, your usually in a differn't Elo. The game is based around leveling up mech's to make them playable (think jenners without double heat sinks and 2x cool runnings). When you level those mech's up, you generally lose most of your matches, which drops your ELO, as many mech's are unplayable until basic's mostly unlocked or speed tweaked.

So if you get no xp or cash reward, and if elo is based on many other failing systems, what exactly is the incentive to win a match? All those guy's bragging about winning tend to be the guy's with the least amount of cash and least advancements.

One more thing, if you win by capping on a mech that needs XP and its the first win of the day, you are punished, as that 1 win nets you at most 1500xp, where a solid win of fighting can earn you double that, and even triple on a really good game.

[Diego Angelus]

RichAC, on 27 December 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

I was thinking since we have skirmish, maybe capping the base should be the only way to win in assault.

Just like in league of legends.

It would make also their plans to put turrets on the bases, that noone even bothers to cap anyways as you point out, more purposeful.

So you suggest something like resapwn system ? I don't think that is good idea matches would last too long.

Problem is rewards just like shade4x said you don't gain anything wining by cap is like making draw where both teams lose so people don't even bother to RTB because they know that guys that cap are just baiting and if they cap fine both teams loses its simple as that. I'm all for fixing reward system and go from there.

[RichAC]

Diego Angelus, on 27 December 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

So you suggest something like resapwn system ? I don't think that is good idea matches would last too long.

Problem is rewards just like shade4x said you don't gain anything wining by cap is like making draw where both teams lose so people don't even bother to RTB because they know that guys that cap are just baiting and if they cap fine both teams loses its simple as that. I'm all for fixing reward system and go from there.

I'm not really worried about the reward dude. I like to win also, even if it doesn't mean much more xp or cbills. But your right, giving more rewards for winning a match would make the game more competitive and encourage more teamwork. Some maps are huge but I'm not sure respawn is nescessary. I think more people would play mediums defninitely.

I think there would be many epic tight battles on bases though if that was the only way to win. It would force people to strategize and play defense. Those type of matches are always exciting to me and fighting for and completing an objective is rewarding in itself for me.

That matches would actually be much shorter. NOt longer. Don't you hear all the complaints about people capping too fast? lol Most matches will end up with both bases counting down.

I like to play skirmish as well, and it just feels like we have two of the same game mode right now. This would be very different and fun change of pace, for a truly different 3rd game mode.

Edited by RichAC, 27 December 2013 - 08:07 AM.

[Diego Angelus]

RichAC, on 27 December 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

I'm not really worried about the reward dude. I like to win also, even if it doesn't mean much more xp or cbills. But your right, giving more rewards for winning a match would make the game more competitive and encourage more teamwork. Some maps are huge but I'm not sure respawn is nescessary. I think more people would play mediums defninitely.

I think there would be many epic tight battles on bases though if that was the only way to win. It would force people to strategize and play defense. Those type of matches are always exciting to me and fighting for and completing an objective is rewarding in itself for me.

That matches would actually be much shorter. NOt longer. Don't you hear all the complaints about people capping too fast? lol

I'm not worried to but it affects game greatly for example lights cap and then both teams are mad first no action witch means no fun and second no reward and then those capers get bashed on chat for bringing victory to his team. If rewards were good then wining team is happy to star next game while losing one learn importance of defending base and watch other team enjoy goodies while capers are praised for doing good job.

Edited by Diego Angelus, 27 December 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[RichAC]

Diego Angelus, on 27 December 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

I'm not worried to but it affects game greatly for example lights cap and then both teams are mad first no action witch means no fun and second no reward and then those capers get bashed on chat for bringing victory to his team. If rewards were good then wining team is happy to star next game while losing one learn importance of defending base and watch other team enjoy goodies while capers are praised for doing good job.

Thats true, but I guess they can put it on skirmish only if they have a problem. I agree though winning should be more rewarding no matter what the game mode.

And i just realize your right, you would need respawns for it to work...lol Maybe you win after destroying enemy base/turrets.

I wouldn't change the rules on conquest though, only because if it was capping only, it definitely would get boring with these slow mechs spread out all over huge maps...cap circling around with very few enagements, even if you had respawns. Conquest is my fav mode for sure, just the way it is.

But in assault with only cap to win, your basically going to have two huge hot points, two king of the hill bases, until one team finally out caps the other. Just an idea, and i admit not well thought out and would have to be done right. Like the timing of the spawns etc so games aren't too long as u said. do they spawn right on the base or somwhere near it.

It also will eleiminate the 12 atlas problem. Your not gonig to be able to just have 12 atlases roasting marshmellows on their base waiting for the enemy to show up with their squishy mediums and annoying lights so they can wipe them. Somebody is going to have to cap lol

Edited by RichAC, 27 December 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[Diego Angelus]

RichAC, on 27 December 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Your correct, but now they can just put it on skirmish only if they would dislike it so much.

Yeah that is why I came back to this topic because now we have mode for people that hate caps so it can be change to suit that mode better and play it like it should be.

After you updated you post
Assault is going to be very different people would come up with many different tactics to cap base and also look how much game changes when you move spawns.

Edited by Diego Angelus, 27 December 2013 - 08:23 AM.