28 replies to this topic

[Kanatta Jing]

In the past few days this question has been asked.

Thusly I will perform some information dispersal.

Have you seen this thing before?



This is the current UI. It's not really the UI as in User Interface but a construct that makes up about half of the game. The half of the game that isn't the Drop or "Battle Engine"

You see the Mech Ready list? That is a pupal stage of the Drop Ship.

You see the greyed out factions tab? That is where the rewards and configuration of Community Warfare would go.

You see that Social button? That is where private Lobbies and Mercenary Companies should be.

Under Pilot Lab? Significant changes under that tab will work to recreate some semblance of Role Warfare.

Every single thing that the Community is asking for, with the exception of Balance Tweaks and Hit Detection is a modification of the UI.

Why haven't these changes been implemented you ask? Well there is a very good reason and you aren't going to like it.

This UI that you have been using since Closed Beta is constructed of leet programming as sturdy as used pizza boxes and is patched together with duct tape and bailing wire. PGI has decided that instead of fixing it that they will stop and rebuild it from scratch.

Making any temporary modifications to the UI to enable more broad scoped content would have put PGI in the position of doing things twice as their work would not carry through.



This is what the new one looks like. Apparently it is better made and can support the modification required to give us what we want.

You know, lobbies, more elaborate game modes, remembering what that last PUG team was made of and giving you the option to stick with them for another round and community warfare. Stuff like that.

UI 2.0 is not vaporware. It was on the test server last month. It recieved enough player feedback to send it back for another month.

Apparently this community is good at brutal critiques.

PGI says they hope it will be out for January. By "hope" we can assume that means maybe March.

UI 2.0 doesn't mean new content. I fully expect the month that it does come out to be a bit of a dud as far as expectations go.

It instead means that new content can finally start being worked on in earnest.

I think we will see something before the Clans come out in June. It might not fullfill your every fantasy as to what a galaxy conquering mech game can be, and seriously what can?

[MeiSooHaityu]

I watched the demo run on NGNG (I think, maybe it was somewhere else) and it looks pretty, but it doesn't seem any more intuitive to use. Hopefully them implemented version will be a bit more streamlined than the prototype. It did crash a lot, but then again, it is an early build so that is normal.

I am certain that the UI 2.0 is a crucial step in any hope for CW. Like the OP said, it will allow them to implement features needed to make a CW setup happen. Still, if this coding has taken this brutally long for them to make, CW might be a Christmas 2014 kind of timeframe.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 17 December 2013 - 04:15 AM.

[Kanatta Jing]

An addendum.

PGI announced that CW was just a few months away once at the end of closed Beta and I think one more time after that. Long before they breathed a word of UI 2.0.

Chances are that a lot of time and money was lost attempting to do make UI 1.5 do something it couldn't.

[tucsonspeed6]

That's an really interesting and plausible theory. I wouldn't be surprised at all if all of the "lies" and failed promises were a result of PGI being embarrassed that they spent months spinning their wheels trying to get these features to work with the bad UI 1.5 code. Prior to last spring they were probably still trying to get it to work. I always wondered why they added disabled tabs to the current UI that they knew full well would never get enabled. This would actually explain a lot of that.

[Rhaythe]

Kanatta Jing, on 16 December 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

This UI that you have been using since Closed Beta is constructed of leet programming as sturdy as used pizza boxes and is patched together with duct tape and bailing wire. PGI has decided that instead of fixing it that they will stop and rebuild it from scratch.

*snort*

I've been assigned to systems like that. Yes, it was government work.

[Zerberus]

I fully understand the necessity for a new Framework, as well as how that most likely caused many of the delays we are currently experiencing.

And while I applaud the effort that has gone in to it, UI 2.0 has not positively surprised me in any of the tests with the exception of the overall look.

What I can`t wrap my head around is why while rebuilding the UI they seem to be trying to rediscover the wheel when creating the mechlab (thereby gimping it instead), instead of at least taking strong cues from existing and previous iterations (including their own UI 1.5) to provide a working solution.

The main trap here is that in any BT game, on any platform (paper, PC, console...), the Mechlab was always half of the heart and soul of the experience, with the combat making the other half. And no game can survive on just half of either, nor without one.... but to me, that is exactly what 2.0 feels like, like it`s taking the functional (if mildly unorganized) lab we had and turning it into a superorganized but non-functional one, where teh simplest task becomes brain surgery just finding the ******* screwdriver.... It feels like taking out a beating human heart and replacing it with an artifical one that someone forgot to turn on.

In all Honesty, UI 2.0 is the first time I truly do not think they are probably going to get it right... while the framework and backend are the most imprtant features for game stability, the Mechlab has always been and well always be a driving factor behind BT`s longevity.... If the Mechlab doesn`t "work", the whole game essentially doesn`t work for most people....

Edited by Zerberus, 16 January 2014 - 02:15 PM.

[Troutmonkey]

From the test server today. It's terrible and extremely hard to use.
I guess it looks nice?

[MoonUnitBeta]

Troutmonkey, on 16 January 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

From the test server today. It's terrible and extremely hard to use.
I guess it looks nice?

I tested it only once, and that was the very first test. This new UI needs more information up-front. We need icons on Right torso, left torso, etc to show what kind of hard points are on these. You literally have to play the Hardpoint Hunting game to find out where you can put srm's. you know you can, just where? *click click click click click*, nope nope nope nope nope nope. A full view of your entire mech that you go into, and come out of that encompasses the majority of the customization should be the very first thing that see when you click "Customize". When you want to fine tune, then break it down into separate sections. But this is either an OCD nightmare or an OCD's dream, I can't tell which, but I am OCD and the "IT'S ALL WRONG" feeling won't go away until it's neat and tidy, AND EFFICIENT.
If I have to open a big box, only to open a somewhat smaller box, to open a smaller box to open a smaller box to open a smaller box to open a smaller box - THAT'S NOT ORGANIZED.
UI2.0 needs less categories that contain categorized sub categories that go so deep you can't find your way back out, or into again. I'm not sure why Inventory isn't part of Mechlab... The video's i've watched and how it's organized just blow my mind into the palm of my hand. I feel really bad for PGI. This update is pivotal and depending how it's done, it will pivot people towards or away from the game.

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
k i'm done now. lol

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 16 January 2014 - 09:28 PM.

[Troutmonkey]

MoonUnitBeta, on 16 January 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

"Need a better view"

Like this?
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=47

[FupDup]

Maybe this is PGI's solution to the problems created by nearly unlimited customization.

It'll be so painful and slow to use the mechlab, that nobody will bother!

[Deathlike]

I wish it was simple as a balance issue...

The mechlab is like the a serious CORE design in ANY MW game. Getting it wrong literally equates to death of the game.

Maybe I'm in the "minority", but anyone thinking that the proposed UI 2.0 mechlab is newbie friendly... has never taken an HCI-based course. (HCI stands for Human-Computer Interaction). It's the kind of thing that makes you understand WHY the iPhone is popular. It's also the same reason WHY Win8 is considered terrible. The UI interface for any system is critical to getting stuff you need NOW... otherwise, it's a useless system.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 January 2014 - 10:08 PM.

[John MatriX82]

Deathlike, on 16 January 2014 - 10:00 PM, said:

Maybe I'm in the "minority", but anyone thinking that the proposed UI 2.0 mechlab is newbie friendly... has never taken an HCI-based course. (HCI stands for Human-Computer Interaction). It's the kind of thing that makes you understand WHY the iPhone is popular. It's also the same reason WHY Win8 is considered terrible. The UI interface for any system is critical to getting stuff you need NOW... otherwise, it's a useless system.

I bet even a monkey would agree that the mechlab they are pushing is NOT based upon a good interface. You're clueless about the number of free critical slots, number of DHSs, free tonnage left, no double click to dismount from the mech nor to mount from the store to the mech, dozens of clicks just to equip one section.

Yesterday I logged the test server after 1 month of non-play, it took me 20 minutes to configure and address the GXP in a freshly acquired Stalker Misery. T W E N T Y minutes. This because I didn't wanted to open up smurfy and memorize what was the exact amount of armor/munitions, critical slots and whatsoever.

The new mechlab is awful, terrible, anything bad that comes into your mind is good to describe it. This will draw away newcomers like radioactive dust does to insects.

As usual the community told them in a constructive way once, in a direct way twice. Nothing, this is what we're (better: you aka those who still play the game) the next month.

The only positive things in that interface it's the art and the looks. Functionality/"user-friendlyness" is below anything driven by common sense..

Edited by John MatriX82, 17 January 2014 - 02:46 AM.

[Texas Merc]

Kanatta Jing, on 16 December 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

In the past few days this question has been asked.

Thusly I will perform some information dispersal.

Have you seen this thing before?



This is the current UI. It's not really the UI as in User Interface but a construct that makes up about half of the game. The half of the game that isn't the Drop or "Battle Engine"

You see the Mech Ready list? That is a pupal stage of the Drop Ship.

You see the greyed out factions tab? That is where the rewards and configuration of Community Warfare would go.

You see that Social button? That is where private Lobbies and Mercenary Companies should be.

Under Pilot Lab? Significant changes under that tab will work to recreate some semblance of Role Warfare.

Every single thing that the Community is asking for, with the exception of Balance Tweaks and Hit Detection is a modification of the UI.

Why haven't these changes been implemented you ask? Well there is a very good reason and you aren't going to like it.

This UI that you have been using since Closed Beta is constructed of leet programming as sturdy as used pizza boxes and is patched together with duct tape and bailing wire. PGI has decided that instead of fixing it that they will stop and rebuild it from scratch.

Making any temporary modifications to the UI to enable more broad scoped content would have put PGI in the position of doing things twice as their work would not carry through.



This is what the new one looks like. Apparently it is better made and can support the modification required to give us what we want.

You know, lobbies, more elaborate game modes, remembering what that last PUG team was made of and giving you the option to stick with them for another round and community warfare. Stuff like that.

UI 2.0 is not vaporware. It was on the test server last month. It recieved enough player feedback to send it back for another month.

Apparently this community is good at brutal critiques.

PGI says they hope it will be out for January. By "hope" we can assume that means maybe March.

UI 2.0 doesn't mean new content. I fully expect the month that it does come out to be a bit of a dud as far as expectations go.

It instead means that new content can finally start being worked on in earnest.

I think we will see something before the Clans come out in June. It might not fullfill your every fantasy as to what a galaxy conquering mech game can be, and seriously what can?

Edited by Texas Merc, 17 January 2014 - 02:50 AM.

[SuperBroHeroFella]

Zerberus, on 16 January 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

In all Honesty, UI 2.0 is the first time I truly do not think they are probably going to get it right... while the framework and backend are the most imprtant features for game stability, the Mechlab has always been and well always be a driving factor behind BT`s longevity.... If the Mechlab doesn`t "work", the whole game essentially doesn`t work for most people....

They may have fixed the bottleneck, but they sure broke the bottle with it!

A huge amount of people already stated that Smurfy's Mechlab is the top notch mech building system and PGI seems to have turned in the exact wrong direction with it.

Hopefully the feature set will be completed in the next few months.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Pilot of the {LT-MOB-25} Pit, on 17 January 2014 - 03:09 AM, said:

They may have fixed the bottleneck, but they sure broke the bottle with it!

A huge amount of people already stated that Smurfy's Mechlab is the top notch mech building system and PGI seems to have turned in the exact wrong direction with it.

Hopefully the feature set will be completed in the next few months.

I saw a new video on the UI 2.0 and the interface seems to have improved a bit. I think the mechlab could use some more work, but it seems like it works fairly well.

Smurfy does work well, but it looks like a glorified Excel spreadsheet. That's fine if it works good (which it does), but a game need so look a bit flashier than that.

[Rhym3z]

Tbh, i'm pretty shocked that half of the issue's apparent in the UI are even there in the first place.

Do they have people testing this in-house?
because it would only take a few minutes to point out a dozen things that are wrong with it.
It only took moment for me to see it.

I can't believe they haven't taken inspiration from smurfy's mechlab, it boggles my mind.

Why should we have to click each and every point on the mech to see its loadout?
just put in all there in front of you, well, i won't go on, you guys know what smurfy's is like.

bah,
really am frustrated.
Its felt like an eternity that they've been working on this, and they've made some real schoolboy errors.
If they can't even get this working, how do you think any additional content will be?

Faith=lost, and will the release version be any better? not likely.

I pray to whoever listen's that another developer starts making a proper SP/MP BT game, i really do,
be it an RTS or FPS, i don't care, this isn't good enough.

Edited by Rhym3z, 17 January 2014 - 04:33 AM.

[Lupin]

Summing this up it seems UI 2.0 too flash for it's own good (and the game). And MW slowly being turned into an arcade game (http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Virtual_On) for console market.

Yes improved over last test of UI 2.0 but LOOKS like they did not listen.
So 2 week 4 days and counting to clear up current set of problems before release date in February?

[Rhym3z]

I think it will take them 2 weeks, 4 days to tie their own shoe laces, let alone listen and tweak anything to which we have provided feedback on

[Ziogualty]

Saw the Ui the first time yesterday on twitch.

I can say everything it's fine to me but the leaout screen.

It seems they intentionally go as far as possible from smurfy (scared of lawsuit for copying the concept?) and the result is not good.
It's really bad to say the thruth.

A schematic of the whole mech (exactely like smurfy) and the chance to select mech parts with mouse rollover are missing.

Actually i think few people can say the loadout screen is nice looking, useful or user friendly at all.

Edited by Attank, 17 January 2014 - 03:08 PM.

[Ghogiel]

The owned mech still takes up half the screen, I really don't think it needs to. That whole menu you start on when the UI loads bothers me a little. It's like I am spammed with my own mechs, I ******* know what mechs I have ffs. Collapse that thing down or something.

And for all that is mechwarrior get the trial mechs out of my 'Owned' mechs section. I never want to see them, let alone see them as the first thing everytime as soon as I load into the UI.


Mech customization menu is kinda ganky>

You can't even click on the mech sections on the actual model like you can do in the current mechlab.

There is no paper doll /armor readout> ie you cant see ALL the sections of the mech at a glance you have to click through each section individually then look all the way to the right of the screen to see armor for that section individually.
It's absolutely imperative to be able to see the entire armor distribution across the whole mech in one glance to see the overall picture.

Even the camospec changing is ganky. The arrows I think are fine for the pattern, but I want a slider bar or be able to open up a pallet of my own colors at least. Having to use an arrow with no slider bar means I have to click through the colors rather than just move the slider to roughly where I remember the color I want will be placed.

Edited by Ghogiel, 17 January 2014 - 07:19 AM.