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Pgi.. The Clans And Prices Are Terrible


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#1 Mechwarrior0311

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:02 AM

Hey there... I have been a loyal gamer who has been here from the start. I was in the closed beta way back at the beginning.. I shelled out $125.00 to support this game, and I have bought the Overlord Package and others... many Hero mechs as well.

I feel as if I have spent a great deal of money on this game, supporting it and standing by it.

I took a little break because I got burned out, and now I am back.. to see that UI 2.0 is slated to be released. That is a thing to be happy about I believe.

But now also you have released Clan tech and I hear it will be the same as IS tech.



What is happening with Star Citizen is a phenomenon that is not to be repeated... it will not continue forever.. it is just frustrated gamers expressing their disgust with the industry ignoring everything we ask for...sadly it will be ignored and instead be seen as a business model to copy and squeeze money from.

In any case, I rest my case. And I hope that someone reads and listens.
Its a shot in the dark ,I know.

(the political commentary was absolutely true however, It wasn't too political it was just the state of the US economy)

Edited by Mechwarrior0311, 03 February 2014 - 02:48 AM.
Redacting political commentary


#2 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:28 AM

View PostMechwarrior0311, on 02 February 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

...


While I agree their pricing point is too high right now, I disagree that sacrificing balance to adhere to TT/novel versions of Clantech is a good idea. You don't speak for all of us, not by a long shot. I've read all of the novels, played all of the computer games and played the TT games and not for one minute would I want them to introduce Clantech as originally described.

Clans were not introduced to be balanced at all. This video game has to take that into account. Introducing a different flavor of tech...with advantages at a balancing cost, I'm all for. Creating a huge imbalance will do one thing only to this game....kill it. Been seen time and again. It's a bad thing to promote, so bad in fact that I had to comment on it.

WE don't all want 6 x AC10's on a Mech if it means breaking the game and driving it into obscurity. (or further into it as the case may be)

#3 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:41 AM

btw...you an old Marine? :angry:

#4 C E Dwyer

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:51 AM

The clans are Battletech, so where you developed the idea the Canonites, (I like that word) are the reason behind PGI's choice of balancing omni mechs and clan tech are a mystery to me.

Everyone has wondered or feared, how PGi would balance the clans, and the answers here, your clearly in the I hate the idea, camp, and while there has been complaints and angst, there has been far far less anger over this than third party view, or even coolant flush.

PGI had a problem, how to not introduce clan tech and not make every other mech before it obsolette, and have at least on paper avoided that, with the system they chose, unlike when they were first released in the models and dice battletech back in the 80's, which completely ignored the blancing factor, where even with no pinpoint aiming made IS mech unplayable.

#5 o0Marduk0o

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 01:06 AM

Let a dead rat rewrite the starting post, so it makes more sense.

#6 Mechwarrior0311

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 01:11 AM

Maybe they could separate Clan Tech and IS into different matches.. and have optional matches that would mix the two.

You don't have to nerf one into the ground to satisfy another group of gamers.. just adjust the way the game is played to incorporate both!

View Posto0Marduk0o, on 02 February 2014 - 01:06 AM, said:

Let a dead rat rewrite the starting post, so it makes more sense.



You offer nothing to the conversation and you reek of a bandwagon supporter with little knowledge on the subject.

Don't take me the wrong way... I have supported the game far more than most of the people here jumping up in down in dismay that I might question their development path.

Edited by Mechwarrior0311, 02 February 2014 - 01:14 AM.


#7 o0Marduk0o

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 01:17 AM

You show your lack of knowledge in your starting post. Everything you mentioned is already discussed here. Take one of the many other threads.

#8 Deathz Jester

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 01:22 AM

While I agree their pricepoints are very very very steep for the content, look at the other premium content and how much it costs. Boar's Head is something like $26.00 USD (guesstimate). Founder's was what 4 mechs, a forum title/badge, a hanger dangle, and some MC for $125USD (i could be missing some items). So in comparison $240 for like 12 mechs and a "bunch" of other content is somewhat more understandable.



But I mean jokingly, what do they care? They are Canadian, they're economy isn't in the *******. I mean they just throw away cruise liners for god's sake.



A
nd I dont really agree with segregated queues, the matchmaking already takes long enough. They need to just properly do mechlab features (which will probably never happen), and properly restrict the amount of tech & weaponry on each mech.

Edited by Iron Harlequin, 02 February 2014 - 01:25 AM.


#9 Mechwarrior0311

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 01:24 AM

View Posto0Marduk0o, on 02 February 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

You show your lack of knowledge in your starting post. Everything you mentioned is already discussed here. Take one of the many other threads.



After a long break from the game and reading about this new information on the front page, I will just go and make my own thread about the subject. I feel its something I am entitled to do.

#10 NocturnalBeast

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 01:49 AM

These are PRE-ORDER prices. If you do not like the prices, then wait a little longer and buy the clan mechs with cbills. Also, it does not make sense that you think PGI is caving to Battletech fans by nerfing clans, that is simply not so, since Battletech fans would want clans to be overpowered like they are in lore. The reason PGI nerfed clan mechs, is because if they did not, no one would every play an IS mech and the clans would have no one to fight in CW.

#11 G-LOC

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 01:51 AM

View PostMechwarrior0311, on 02 February 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:


[redacted]



Well this is a smart post, isn't it... Your inwards looking rednecky views aside, PGI is Canadian and as Canada has a stronger economy than the US right now (there are hints of this changing however) they have the proverbial power.

For the record I do agree the prices are astronomical and untenable. I'm in the UK and the prices hurt us too but think how some of the players in weaker South East Asian economies feel when they see the prices, count your blessings mate.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 02 February 2014 - 07:23 AM.
Redacting quote of political commentary


#12 Mechwarrior0311

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 02:44 AM

View PostCTF GLOC, on 02 February 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:


Well this is a smart post, isn't it... Your inwards looking rednecky views aside, PGI is Canadian and as Canada has a stronger economy than the US right now (there are hints of this changing however) they have the proverbial power.

For the record I do agree the prices are astronomical and untenable. I'm in the UK and the prices hurt us too but think how some of the players in weaker South East Asian economies feel when they see the prices, count your blessings mate.


Oh so I guess being a pompous *** is the solution to everything.

We must also notice your blank account.


Edit: To the rest of you MW fans, don't take me the wrong way, I am not voicing concern because I don't like the game... as you can see I have invested a bit into the game and have been here from the start.. I voice concern because I care about the game.

Edited by Mechwarrior0311, 02 February 2014 - 02:47 AM.


#13 CyclonerM

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 03:34 AM

What you seem to not understand is that hardcore BT fans might want Clan tech as powerful as it was in the novels and nerfed with inferior drop numbers etc.

And trust me our rules are not strangling anything, they started strangling themselves with the totally free 'Mechlab. The TT rules would have helped instead reducing the problem of the cheese builds..

#14 Sir T

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 03:46 AM

View PostMechwarrior0311, on 02 February 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

Why did you cave in to these hardcore Battletech guys who are strangling your game to death with their stickler rules and so on? Why can't you just let it run free and be what it is?

Also, why are your prices so insanely high for Mechs?? $240.00 is a lot of money... $500.00 for a single mech?

You do realize that the economy is {Scrap}, gas and food prices are high, unemployment is at an all time high, and Obamacare is wrecking the healthcare industry?


So, you want to start a political slapfight as well as bieng pretty much ignorant about what "Hardcore Battletechers" want?

Firstly "Obamacare" is not wrecking the health care industry, indeed Rep. Paul Ryan has it in his Budjets because even he knows that it's just more affordable and he needs the savings to make his sums balance. That means it costs less, which is why the Heritage Foundation proposed it as a libertarian alternative to a National Health Service in the 1980's, and that noted commie Bob Dole advanced the same plan as an alternative to Hillarycare in the 1990s. And Mitt Romney implemented it in Massachusetts. Go read what's actually in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and not get your silly talking points from FOX. The reason nowhere in the world uses a system like the US had is that Its so goddam expensive. And before you bring up the 20,000 people that come to the US for health care every year, 10 times that leave the US every year for affordable Health care to Mexico alone. US Healthcare is great if you have enough money to avoid dealing with the "death Panels" in the insurance companies. Maybe you aught to check out the website to see what affordable plans you might be entitled to, now that there are actually a few rules to help prevent the Insurance companies from robbing you blind for sod all coverage?

Food and Gas prices were the same under George W Bush, They crashed down at the end of his term because the economy crashed and there was no-one left who could pay those stupid prices. Oh and us Euros have been paying something like 10 dollars to the gallon for petrol forever. The Shop down my street right now is advertising 1.50 Euro for a LITER of gas. You work out how much that is per gallon in dollars, and then figure out how the hell the rest of the world survives. Might upen your eyes a little.

And finally, far from bieng unheard of, unempyment in raw percentages was worse under Saint Ronald Regan. It peaked under Ronnie at 11%, though it improved later as he spent the last 6 years of his term RAISING TAXES. All he did was one huge tax cut in 1982, and 3 months later he was back to congress asking for a third of it back. George H W Bush was ripped apart for doing openly what Reagan had been doing by stealth for 6 years, namely, raising Taxes. By the way, The Laffer Curve, on which the whole theory of cutting taxes to raise revenue is based, actually showed that revenue would start dropping if taxes were rasied to 90%. Cutting taxes to 27% just drops revenue, and there no serious economist who would argue it. And yes, revenues dropped drasticly the Year after Reagans huge tax cut, after having been consistently rising under Carter. After that, Reagan becan raising taxes and vevenues started climing again.

As for the die hard Battletech guys, I played Battletech for years and I knew damn well that turning the Clans lose like they were in Tabetop was a ludicrous idea. All the old gamers,had been telling PGI that clanners needed a rething for years not becasue we are stuck in the oldtimes but becasue we cared about balance and everyone having a good time. Simply, the Clans pack more guns onto a chassis than the Inner Shere mechs and have ludicrous abilitoes on top of that, such as no minimum range on their LRMs. Do you want to face a mech with effectivly a Streak 40? Even though you would probably have fantasies about blowing everyone else away with the Clan Mechs you played, everyone else would leave the game in droves if they pulled that {Scrap} off. I'm sure you would be ideologicly pure and have awful armour all over your clan mechs as well, just like they were in the tabletop designs (with a few exceptions such as the Mad Cat) one of the few things the TT designers did to even up the odds a bit. But there was nothing to stop someone designing their own clan mechs with proper armout

I'm willing to wait a bit to see what they come up with but so far their ideas are interesting and have at least the potential to have an interesting flavour. They reduction oif the head suckage of double heat sinks was a very good sign that they can tweak things properly for balance. If they hadn't we would be awash in a sea of lasers.

And I'm not paying a cent for clan mechs, the only ones that interest me at all are the Mad Cat and the Diashi, but I was always an IS player at heart.

I'm sure you will dismiss this post as commie propoganda and whatnot, but this post does have the benefit of bieng all true.

Edited by Sir T, 02 February 2014 - 03:51 AM.


#15 ShadowFighter88

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 03:50 AM

I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who didn't think the gold 'mechs were a bad idea. $500 for a single 'mech is ridiculous no matter how you look at it and no matter what unique skin and baubles it comes with.

So just don't buy a gold one - if you want to pre-order a specific 'mech, just use the a la carte option at the bottom of the pre-order page. Don't get any extras with it, but at least you're guaranteed exactly the 'mechs you want and that's all I'm after - I just want a Summoner, a Timber Wolf and a Dire Wolf and that's all I'm getting (I suck with lights and the above were the only Clan 'mechs on offer that I actually liked, the rest are either ones I don't like or just feel too ambivalent about to actually buy).

#16 2500kgm3

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 03:51 AM

View PostCyclonerM, on 02 February 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

What you seem to not understand is that hardcore BT fans might want Clan tech as powerful as it was in the novels and nerfed with inferior drop numbers etc.

And trust me our rules are not strangling anything, they started strangling themselves with the totally free 'Mechlab. The TT rules would have helped instead reducing the problem of the cheese builds..


And what people don't seem to get is that this game (like most games) is about wish fullfilment. Being able to piloting huge mechs and being great mechwarriors capable of killing entire enemy teams with high caliber canons. If given the choice of piloting a sub-par battlemech in a team of twelve having 10 superior enemies to kill (scoring a kill becomes hard, since there are fewer and more dangerous enemies), or piloting a superior battlemech in a team with 9 other teammates against 12 inferior enemies to prey on, what do you think the majority of the playerbase (besides some old school IS lovers and the kind of people who currently pilot medium mechs other than shadowhawks) will choose?

C-bills is not a factor. People will earn enough to change into clans if it's worth it, no matter the cost, and IS mechs will be nothing but second-class citizens, deathtraps for newbies in the game.

This game is much more of a visceral experience than tabletop, and you are piloting a single mech instead of managing a squad of battlemechs. In tabletop, you were not out of the game after the first of your IS battlemechs fell fighting against the enemy. People care as much about the teams being balanced, as they not being out of the match for a lot of time due to dying. 12 vs 10 would not work as great here as it worked on tabletop.

Edited by 2500kgm3, 02 February 2014 - 04:14 AM.


#17 CyclonerM

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 04:11 AM

Remember many Clan 'Mechs have paper armour and the lights will be harder to use due to slow speed. So many of them would be effectively glass cannons. I do not see it too hard to focus-fire on a Clan 'Mech and kill it.

#18 Kekkone

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 04:12 AM

View PostMechwarrior0311, on 02 February 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

But now also you have released Clan tech and you nerfed it all to hell.

Why did you cave in to these hardcore Battletech guys who are strangling your game to death with their stickler rules and so on? Why can't you just let it run free and be what it is?

Caving in to hardcore BT guys would mean leaving clantech at its overpowered state compared to its IS counterpart. They are modifying it to cater to the 12v12 pvp format, not because of an old evil boardgame. PGI can't just separate the two into different game modes, that's essentially splitting MWO into 2 different games. It would be bad gameplay design and wouldn't really serve any purpose.

Clantech is a lose-lose situation for gameplay design. If you leave it as is, you render all IS tech obsolete, which is pointless. Modify (nerf) it to fit 12v12, it loses its uniqueness and flavor. They could try to circumvent the power balance by putting R&R on clantech, but that would then shift the game towards pay-to-win.

The only way to incorporate clantech as is would be to design a real economy and non-restricted battle settings into the game, like for example in EVE Online. That would require a whole different game though.

EDIT: Splitting the game into MWO:IS and MWO:Clan doesn't really serve the upcoming CW.

Edited by Kekkone, 02 February 2014 - 04:14 AM.


#19 Shepherd

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 04:56 AM

The bottom line of the price argument is that you DO NOT have to pay that much money if you don't think it's worth while. Firstly because this is a game, not a necessity, and secondly because it's a free to play game, so you can just save up in-game money and save your real-life money if you think it's too expensive. Additionally, the community should be thankful to those players who have the means and the inclination to purchase anything in the game with real money, as they support the continued development and success of the game. Without them, the game ends.

There's not much to add on the balance argument. How exactly things are balanced is one thing - whether or not that balance is effective is another thing - but there has to be a balance. I don't think there can be a serious argument against that point.

#20 Levon K

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 06:02 AM

Prices are fine now that Gold mech includes Masakari.

You not being able to afford it doesn't mean the price is too high.

Also, your argument about old school TT players is completely backwards.

Regardless, we want this game to succeed, we're not going to cater to some baby that wants 6 ac/10's on his mech. You know what will happen? The guys on the other team are going to be carrying 6 ER PPCs instead, and you will die before getting a single shot off. Tell me what kind of game that is?



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