44 replies to this topic

[Catalina Steiner]

This is not a lights section’s thread because it's particulary about LRM's.

I'm driving light mechs since day one (as for me Summer 2013). I have mastered the Jenners, the Spiders, the Ravens and now I'm working on the Locusts and I just bought my first Commando.

Additional to that I have almost entirely played the Conquest mode. But I really miss a reward for all my deeds there. I'm known as a pilot who loves to capture enemy points one by one. Often I have to capture four or five points. Sometimes I don’t give a single shot on the enemy but we won 750:300 if my team is a good one.
In this case my reward is sufficient. I’m a teamplayer and I love to serve my team, even if I got nothing but my win points. I get the capture bonuses and I’m happy.

But when we lose, I get nothing. I surrounded the whole map, capturing four or five points and got nothing for it (25,000 C-Bills and 100 XP). This is ridiculous. But don’t think this is a thread of whining and complaining.

I thought a lot about how to play more efficiently and getting rewards without losing my team spirit. And when I decided to master my Ravens finally, I got it.

My first mech was a Raven but there was no love between us. I mastered the Jenners, the Spiders and then I took care of them. I bought my next Raven and played both without the enthusiasm I knew from Spiders and Jenners. They were slow and not as agile as the other lights I own. But after buying the RVN-2X I decided not to build another SRM carrier. But what else? Then I had the idea to put a LRM5 in it.

And what shall I say, it was an awesome idea. It’s now possible to capture a point without getting bored by waiting until the point is captured. I can support my team with annoying LRM fire.

You might say that a LRM5 isn’t enough to kill enemies or involve them in trouble but that’s not the point. I’m doing two useful things: first of all I capture a point for my team and I support my team by annoying the enemy team and push them back because nobody wants to stay in LRM fire. Secondly I can do some damage and get kill assists and finally got my reward I deserve so badly. My XP and C-Bill output has increased a lot while playing LRM lights.

My try-out was so successfully that I decided to rebuild all three Ravens. There are all LRM light mechs now. RVN-3L, RVN-4X and RVN-2X.

Additional to that I own a LRM Locust. Yes, a Locust and it’s the one I love to play. I can use its speed (at least 170 km/h) for capturing points and escape very fast if I’m in trouble. And I can support my team with another LRM5 fire. It’s incredible!

I have not changed my older mechs (Jenner with missile hardpoints for example) but I will certainly think about using LRM in my future light mechs with missile hardpoints. My first Commando has a LRM5 also.

Here are links to my LRM light mech build. Have fun.

Raven: RVN-2X, RVN-4X, RVN-3L

Locust: LCT-3S

Commando: COM-1B

Oh, and I forgot to say: my favorite mech is the RVN-4X. It's my best mech. Times are changing.

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 09 February 2014 - 10:12 AM.

[MnDragon]

This topic...These mechs....

[Modo44]

I think you messed up the links.

How bad is the ammo situation on those? I assume you can stay in good range basically forever, so how much is needed per LRM5?

[1453 R]

Right now, LRM lights are a nonfactor on the battlefield save in the roles you specifically described - tossing out some trollfacery LRM salvos whilst capping points in Conquest. In any other game mode, Inner Sphere lights just cannot mount enough LRM tubes to make a difference in any sort of actual fight.

This will change, drastically, when the Clans hit in June.

The Kit Fox and Adder, while not zippety-doo-da fast like the current crop of (hyper-customized) IS lights, will be able to mount a very significant LRM armament. The Adder in particular will be able to sling two ALRM-15 (9 tons), with five tons of ammo (14 tons), a Clan TAG (15 tons) and a single ridiculous Clan ER medium laser to fish for assists/finish wounded threats after the tubes run dry (16 tons, maximum available pod space), all while hitting 107kph after Tweak. That sounds ludicrous slow for a light, and by the standards of today's current lights it most certainly is...but it's also got max plating by default, what will be a very low-profile design/silhouette (YOU HEAR ME, MODELING TEAM?!), and is also carrying as much armament as a fifty-ton Trebuchet.

Not, perhaps, the LRM light you wanted...but definitely the LRM light you deserve.

[Sephlock]

1453 R, on 09 February 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Right now, LRM lights are a nonfactor on the battlefield save in the roles you specifically described - tossing out some trollfacery LRM salvos whilst capping points in Conquest. In any other game mode, Inner Sphere lights just cannot mount enough LRM tubes to make a difference in any sort of actual fight.

This will change, drastically, when the Clans hit in June.

The Kit Fox and Adder, while not zippety-doo-da fast like the current crop of (hyper-customized) IS lights, will be able to mount a very significant LRM armament. The Adder in particular will be able to sling two ALRM-15 (9 tons), with five tons of ammo (14 tons), a Clan TAG (15 tons) and a single ridiculous Clan ER medium laser to fish for assists/finish wounded threats after the tubes run dry (16 tons, maximum available pod space), all while hitting 107kph after Tweak. That sounds ludicrous slow for a light, and by the standards of today's current lights it most certainly is...but it's also got max plating by default, what will be a very low-profile design/silhouette (YOU HEAR ME, MODELING TEAM?!), and is also carrying as much armament as a fifty-ton Trebuchet.

Not, perhaps, the LRM light you wanted...but definitely the LRM light you deserve.

http://www.reddit.co...er_over/cf9j0fg

[Dracol]

I had a lot of fun with my LRM locust. Dropped in mostly assualt and was able to master it quickly.

[1453 R]

Sephlock, on 09 February 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

http://www.reddit.co...er_over/cf9j0fg

So...what you're saying - or rather, what Garth is saying - is that Piranha is, instead, going to hang the middle finger at every single OmniMech chassis ever, because all of them have an LRM-equipped configuration somewhere, and all of those configurations are based on the current weight/critslot count of the launchers. Ergo, 'giant middle finger'-ing at the weight of CLRMs is also completely invalidating any configuration relying on those numbers...LIKE THE PRIMARY CONFIGURATION OF THE MOST ICONIC BATTLETECH MACHINE EVER.

Weight and critslots are untouchable, until/unless we're going to start tossing out tabletop stock configurations altogether. At which point we may as well just toss out all stock configurations ever and let Piranha put whatever they feel like on their 'Mechs, as well as retconning every dirt-poor stock variant out there to accommodate the fact that we're not bothering to stick to anything remotely resembling the ironclad rules we've stuck to so far.

CLRM minimum range is being reinstated. Understood and accepted, I don't want Streak SRM-20s any more than the next guy. CLRMs need something to differentiate them from ISLRMs, to stop the one from being completely superior to the other.

First of all no they bloody don't Mixtech is disallowed, Clan 'Mechs are supposed to be paying for the advantages of their higher-performing gear by forfeiting the free and easy chassis optimization of IS Play-Dough 'Mechs. IS LRM batteries cannot mount CLRMs and break the system open, so why can't Clan LRM machines enjoy still being valid?

Second of all...reduction in ammunition per ton. Go back to 100 missiles/ton in any given click of LRM ammo, cutting the endurance of Clan launchers almost in half. This addresses the weight imbalance problem very nicely by forcing Clanners to take, effectively, double the weight of ammunition for parity with IS launchers. This mitigates the tonnage advantage of CLRM launchers and also matches the general Clan 'flavor' - that of short, brutal contests wherein skill and savagery is emphasized over brute-force, MOAR FIAHPOWAH solutions.

Clearly, I need to start a thread on this somewhere PGI can see it. Because adjusting tonnage values of Clan LRm launchers is absolutely ridiculous and cannot be allowed to go through. Thanks for the heads-up, Seph.

Edited by 1453 R, 09 February 2014 - 11:54 AM.

[Kissamies]

Yeah, I put LRMs to my 3S Locust for this very reason. Something to do while I cap.

[Nick Makiaveli]

One other guy in the DHB had the same idea as me (GMTA) and we both mounted quad LRM5s on a Locust. Single ply TP for armor (the 2-ply weighs too much). Link

That's a quick mock-up but fairly accurate. Could use a smaller engine and get more ammo/armor, but it's an interesting build to run.

Also if you form a lance and every one has a LRM5, then you become more of a threat

[Kenyon Burguess]

good for you, long as your having fun, that's all that matters.

[Sephlock]

1453 R, on 09 February 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

So...what you're saying - or rather, what Garth is saying - is that Piranha is, instead, going to hang the middle finger at every single OmniMech chassis ever, because all of them have an LRM-equipped configuration somewhere, and all of those configurations are based on the current weight/critslot count of the launchers. Ergo, 'giant middle finger'-ing at the weight of CLRMs is also completely invalidating any configuration relying on those numbers...LIKE THE PRIMARY CONFIGURATION OF THE MOST ICONIC BATTLETECH MACHINE EVER.

Weight and critslots are untouchable, until/unless we're going to start tossing out tabletop stock configurations altogether. At which point we may as well just toss out all stock configurations ever and let Piranha put whatever they feel like on their 'Mechs, as well as retconning every dirt-poor stock variant out there to accommodate the fact that we're not bothering to stick to anything remotely resembling the ironclad rules we've stuck to so far.

CLRM minimum range is being reinstated. Understood and accepted, I don't want Streak SRM-20s any more than the next guy. CLRMs need something to differentiate them from ISLRMs, to stop the one from being completely superior to the other.

First of all no they bloody don't Mixtech is disallowed, Clan 'Mechs are supposed to be paying for the advantages of their higher-performing gear by forfeiting the free and easy chassis optimization of IS Play-Dough 'Mechs. IS LRM batteries cannot mount CLRMs and break the system open, so why can't Clan LRM machines enjoy still being valid?

Second of all...reduction in ammunition per ton. Go back to 100 missiles/ton in any given click of LRM ammo, cutting the endurance of Clan launchers almost in half. This addresses the weight imbalance problem very nicely by forcing Clanners to take, effectively, double the weight of ammunition for parity with IS launchers. This mitigates the tonnage advantage of CLRM launchers and also matches the general Clan 'flavor' - that of short, brutal contests wherein skill and savagery is emphasized over brute-force, MOAR FIAHPOWAH solutions.

Clearly, I need to start a thread on this somewhere PGI can see it. Because adjusting tonnage values of Clan LRm launchers is absolutely ridiculous and cannot be allowed to go through. Thanks for the heads-up, Seph.

http://www.reddit.co...ruction/cf6jvma

http://www.reddit.co...ruction/cf6mjql

[Catalina Steiner]

No, everything is alright... you can watch my LRM light mech builds there including all information about the mech and the link to Smurfys mechlab. Please, please read a post before posting.

I'm using two tons of LRM ammunition usually. Watch the link to Smurfys.

Modo44, on 09 February 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

I think you messed up the links.

How bad is the ammo situation on those? I assume you can stay in good range basically forever, so how much is needed per LRM5?

Thanks for your dedicated post and the including information.
But I don't like your opinion that LRM lights are a "nonfactor". It has nothing to do with "trolling". I can support my team in a very serious way just as I described it. I cannot destroy an enemy (even if my kill rate has increased a lot since I'm using LRM lights) but I can help to push them back into cover while my team rush them and take them out one by one. I'm a factor, whatever I am doing. Maybe it needs dedicated and skilled pilots for it. But that's what I am.

I'm looking forward to think about it when the Clan mechs arrive. I may be impressed.

1453 R, on 09 February 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Right now, LRM lights are a nonfactor on the battlefield save in the roles you specifically described - tossing out some trollfacery LRM salvos whilst capping points in Conquest. In any other game mode, Inner Sphere lights just cannot mount enough LRM tubes to make a difference in any sort of actual fight.

This will change, drastically, when the Clans hit in June.

(...)

Not, perhaps, the LRM light you wanted...but definitely the LRM light you deserve.

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 09 February 2014 - 02:21 PM.

[1453 R]

You're a factor in my maneuvering up until I realize that all that's happening is I'm being picked at by an LRM-5. At which point I'll ignore it and let my AMS devour your attacks whilst I otherwise go about my business. About all you'll accomplish against an enemy that actually checks to see how many missiles are being lobbed his way is chewing through some of his AMS ammo. You certainly won't get through his AMS sufficiently to threaten him.

As for being a factor on the cap, certainly. Any quick light 'Mech is going to be; you could play a Conquest game completely unarmed and still be a critical factor in your team's victory. The main issue is that no Inner Sphere light 'Mech can mount a serious LRM offense. My rule of thumb is 30 tubes minimum missile count if your BattleMech's only real weapons are LRMs. 20 or 25-count can work if you're using long-range direct fire to supplement LRMs.

Even the best missile-carrier LRM light, though, can only mount twenty tubes' worth of offense, and that's if he doesn't give much of a snot about ammunition. You also get neither TAG nor Artemis to help tighten your missile clusters; this is less of a problem for LRM-5 launchers than for 15s or 20s, but it's still an issue. You get twenty-seven full salvos out of the launchers, which is a goodly amount but not really a good amount, and while you do get the benefit* of rapid chain-fire against targets silly enough not to make space for an AMS system, your best bet is pretty much always going to be to clump-fire the launchers all at once.

This isn't to say that quadruple LRM-5 oxide can't make a right nuisance of itself in a lot of Puglandia fights. It certainly can, and there's something to be said for light 'Mech trollfacery that can actually get through light AMS cover and hit things enough to get numbers...but I'm not going to call it a viable combat strategy. It's an interesting notion for light players who enjoy the maneuver warfare aspect of the game more than the fighting, things like capping or recon. It's also why I wish like hell we had the Valkyrie, even though Harmony Gold so nope. it may well be a terrible 'Mech too, but it woulda been entertaining...

[Catalina Steiner]

It seems as you know a lot about this issue. But as I said, I'm pushing back assaults, I killed mechs with LRMs and certainly I annoyed them, emptied the enemy AMS' and opened them for REAL LRM fire. That's all a fact.

My best weapon ever was and currently is being underestimated. So at least I should thank you for your post.

[Kjudoon]

LRMs under 10 tubes don't seem particularly useful no matter how I've tried regardles of Mech. I've actually come to enjoy the sudden panic from lights in a scrum when a Jenner that is not an oxide starts firing them too. Suddenly they have to choose between running and risking 11dmg per volley or face 20dmg from an ML broadside. Also, if I back away from a fight where they are engaged with mediums or other lights, suddenly those LRMs at 200-300m become very important factors in that fight. It is also quite fun to use on those light killers or charging mediums who can't keep up with you backpeddling and firing at them at getting outside 500m tearing armor off them and maybe getting the lucky kill while their chance drops dramatically.

Oxides are quite effective LRM mechs but it's hard to make sure they have the minimum 1 ton/5 tube ratio needed to make it worthwhile.

I

[p4r4g0n]

Catalina's approach seems more faithful to the role of a light than most ... something to think about when I go back to playing lights.

[Acierocolotl]

GENIUS.

I never really considered this. I mean yes, like you, I'm a dedicated light pilot. But I only put an LRM-5 on a Jenner once as a joke.

I'd been trying to find a quasi-useful niche for my missile Locust. A pair of Streaks were sort of nice for punishing dodgy lights, but never as successful as I liked. But putting a launcher on a Locust and just harrassing the daylights out of dudes while capping? Awesome. Genius.

[Kjudoon]

Acierocolotl, on 09 February 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

GENIUS.

I never really considered this. I mean yes, like you, I'm a dedicated light pilot. But I only put an LRM-5 on a Jenner once as a joke.

I'd been trying to find a quasi-useful niche for my missile Locust. A pair of Streaks were sort of nice for punishing dodgy lights, but never as successful as I liked. But putting a launcher on a Locust and just harrassing the daylights out of dudes while capping? Awesome. Genius.

I did this in a 12 man with a Jenner. I was capping, the scrum was happening on the other side of the berm in Forest Colony so I picked a lock and just started popping shots into the nearest Highlander and blew off a torso denying him his weaponry as he was a meta build. Promptly cored out by a wave of 5 RTB mechs that came around the corner right after that. Trust me, 10 LRM tubes on a light can be just an irritant to keep the big boys ducking under cover because they don't know what's coming, harrass those in a scrum, deadly to those injured or a way to strip armor off rapidly running away lights you don't have time to chase or know better to follow them back to their heavies. It's often funny to watch them get legged just before they clear range at 850m while they are thinking they are safe.

Yeahhhhh... not so much. Also remember, if you are over 180 you can use them as SRMs which can freak out many a pilot as well.

[Acierocolotl]

After having a handful of matches with it, I've taken away a few points:

First, it's keeping me out of trouble. I was used to just wading into the most insane scrums with a Jenner, punishing the unwary and jumping away like a robotic Superman when it got too hot. I can't do that with a Locust, I get to the "up up and" and I'm dead before I can say "away" since I'm not flying. (But this is a reflection on how stupidly bloodthirsty I am.) I've crashed my own legs off jumping off cliffs a Jenner would laugh at.

And secondly when it did turn into a hairball, I was much more likely to hang back with an MLAS and my LRM 5 and pepper an opponent, rather than trying to close to knife range to use a battery of small pulse lasers. Still alive, I could cap more, and that actually made the difference in one match.

So in the end, this was good advice. I'm going to miss the LRMs on my other Locusts, I think.

[Mordin Ashe]

Tried 2xLRM5 Raven with 3 tons of ammo. It is great fire support choice, and it helps a lot when pilot finds himself in situation where two zergs are facing each other in unflankable positions. It does help when fights happen at 500-700m distances where lights simply have to wait for their chance to shine. It also does a lot of damage if you manage to stay in 180-270m bracket so to that your MLs and LRMs can fire simultaneously for maximum damage. LRM5 also don't need artemis since most missiles to land at enemy CT anyway.
But it lacks punching power. I faced a few situations where I could have killed the enemy should I pack SRMs instead. Also, AMS is very rare these days, but when they happen, its no LRMs for you.

Either way, LRMs are doable on lights. They may have limitations, but if you stick to fire support and for some reason love the distance between you and the enemy, LRMs may be a way. You will need a back up though, and there are definitely better options.