23 replies to this topic

[Zordicron]

So if you dont know you should, taking "the middle" or "mount doom" etc in this map is key to winning, in every mode. Conquest there is a secondary key, your whole team has to blob together also.

So, as I was getting trounced( or my team rather) trying to assault the camping enemy in the middle on skirmish just now i thought:

" The stupid volcano should erupt to keep people out of the damn middle."

So then, I put something in Gen chat about it. it was recieved very well.

That map, is a crazy waste right now. It has potential, it is dark, hot as hell, lots of cover to escape missiles etc, multiple paths to flank-

Except it doesnt matter because if you dont rush to the middle and camp it, you lose 9/10. Assault mode you can try to cap, but it is a big map, and inevitably your Fatlas pug-mates will not be interested in hiking. Skirmish there is no counter but attrition assault that normally fails. Conquest usually just goes to whoever blobs the hardest on this map and is smart enough to take the middle so they can doom blob the enemy when they get located from the multi exit hub.

So then: every 3 minutes there is an event in the middle, eruption, massive heat spike, I dont care really, something volcano themed. This allows the center to be useful as a flanking/movement hub, but not to camp and defend with impunity. It would also shake things up in conquest, making that cap point risky buisness.

The key to fixing this map is to remove the center hub as 90% of the focus of the map. It would be much more enjoyable to utilize all the winding paths and bridges etc then it is to play king of the mountain.

[Rayah]

This is a nice idea, I wouldn't mind seeing it looked into and tested.

I also think that the center would be a lot less useful if it were low ground instead of high ground. I think that would change the flow of Terra Therma quite a bit, though this idea sounds a lot less doable than yours.

[Lukoi Banacek]

If you think taking the center is a requirement to winning in any of the three modes, it is safe to say we are definitely not playi g the same game. That being said, an erupting volcano is an i teresting thought. Perhaps at a set time, like old faithful, so teams can take it knowing they will reach a point mid match that they will have to at least temporarily abandon it.

[TehSBGX]

Having Mount doom erupt sometimes would be a pretty boss idea. Because everyone rushes that thing in pugs and it usually turns into a death trap, which gets really old really fast.

[SpiralFace]

Dealing with Center in Terra is only really needed in "skirmish" when close team will rush it and just camp the location the whole game.

In both other game modes, it is hands down the worst and dumbest place you could ever go unless you actually know what you are doing.

Assault.

Whole team went and camped center? Other team just flanks and takes base, GG.

Conquest,

Theta marker is something that has to be dealt with, but again, also the dumbest place to rush. Easiest way to deal with it is to simply cap around Theta, completely ignore the mountain, if a team went center, either pick the team apart as they scatter to catch up on cap, Cap theta behind the deathball as they rush to cap one of the outlining points, Or just bait them into a firing line you lay outside the mountain.

Either way, unless you are playing "location camp" mode that is skirmish, you should NEVER go center in the volcano unless you, A: are simply scouting it, or B: have superior numbers.

There is no need to add some gimiky "eruption" element to the stage. The stage itself is built in a way where the center is hands down one of the worst places you could try and go unless your playing "camp warrior" in skirmish mode.

Edited by SpiralFace, 16 February 2014 - 09:39 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Skirmish mode is easily softened with copius amounts of arty/airstrike making the center less of a factor than many would others believe.

[ValdnadHartagga]

You know, back in the early days of Terra Therma, one of the best plays you could make was to set up a kill box near your spawn and wait for them to come.

But yes, more map events.

[Zordicron]

For the record, i am speaking PUGs. I have no idea how that map plays out in 12 mans. In a pug match, if your team gets in the middle, and sets up defensively to cover the doors, it is 9/10 time game over as it is almost assured a couple on the enemy team will try to push in, and there is only so many doors, and so much room to squeeze in.

if you team takes it, and then trys to actually cover the doors by being in the doors, then it is phailboat every time. it really is pretty simple, but then, NOTHING in a pug is simple.

[Lukoi Banacek]

PUG or 12 man, the center is not the key to victory. Still liked the initial suggestion however.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Eldagore, on 16 February 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

So if you dont know you should, taking "the middle" or "mount doom" etc in this map is key to winning, in every mode. Conquest there is a secondary key, your whole team has to blob together also.

So, as I was getting trounced( or my team rather) trying to assault the camping enemy in the middle on skirmish just now i thought:

" The stupid volcano should erupt to keep people out of the damn middle."

So then, I put something in Gen chat about it. it was recieved very well.

That map, is a crazy waste right now. It has potential, it is dark, hot as hell, lots of cover to escape missiles etc, multiple paths to flank-

Except it doesnt matter because if you dont rush to the middle and camp it, you lose 9/10. Assault mode you can try to cap, but it is a big map, and inevitably your Fatlas pug-mates will not be interested in hiking. Skirmish there is no counter but attrition assault that normally fails. Conquest usually just goes to whoever blobs the hardest on this map and is smart enough to take the middle so they can doom blob the enemy when they get located from the multi exit hub.

So then: every 3 minutes there is an event in the middle, eruption, massive heat spike, I dont care really, something volcano themed. This allows the center to be useful as a flanking/movement hub, but not to camp and defend with impunity. It would also shake things up in conquest, making that cap point risky buisness.

The key to fixing this map is to remove the center hub as 90% of the focus of the map. It would be much more enjoyable to utilize all the winding paths and bridges etc then it is to play king of the mountain.

OMG.

Can people please think out of a paper bag?

If the other team is entrenched in the middle, DONT GO INTO THE MIDDLE. There's this craziness that games have to be won and done within the first 5 minutes. Being patient. Being clever. Using what's given to a team just seems to take a backseat.

I don't know where the issue is... there are just some things that shouldn't be done. Like crowding around the "door" of the center. Moving too far forward and forgetting one has a base (on assault). Rushing into the middle when it's completely taken. Or moving in the closest enter point to the dz if one does wish to try and take the center.

How about suggesting to your team (and this isn't just to you) that you try something different and not the same mindless blob play each and every time. It can work. It does work.


Oh, and with all that said... an erupting volcano. That would be interesting. What if it could be triggered externally. Say a massive amount of weapons fire or art into the base of the volcano. Or something that could make it more active. *blink*

[OznerpaG]

it could be as simple as everybody's heat climbs when yer in the middle just like when you are walking in lava on this map - if you'r right above a pool of lava then you might as well be in it as far as heat is concerned

[Bhelogan]

I support an erupting volcano.

[Zordicron]

Daisu Saikoro, on 16 February 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

OMG.

Can people please think out of a paper bag?

If the other team is entrenched in the middle, DONT GO INTO THE MIDDLE. There's this craziness that games have to be won and done within the first 5 minutes. Being patient. Being clever. Using what's given to a team just seems to take a backseat.

I don't know where the issue is... there are just some things that shouldn't be done. Like crowding around the "door" of the center. Moving too far forward and forgetting one has a base (on assault). Rushing into the middle when it's completely taken. Or moving in the closest enter point to the dz if one does wish to try and take the center.

How about suggesting to your team (and this isn't just to you) that you try something different and not the same mindless blob play each and every time. It can work. It does work.


Oh, and with all that said... an erupting volcano. That would be interesting. What if it could be triggered externally. Say a massive amount of weapons fire or art into the base of the volcano. Or something that could make it more active. *blink*

It's pugs. Suggesting anything has about a 20% success rate. I am no dummy, hell I am that one really ultra aware guy on your team that knows where everyone is, enemy too most of the time. But, no matter if I know where you, your pal and his lance, 11/12 of the enemy and the last enemy's grandma is, I cant make a pug do anything. I can suggest, i can call out locations and mechs, but it really comes down to luck and pug lottery.

So I suggest this map event thing. It really could not just be for Mount Doom. Giant doors on the 4 entrances to the base section on moon base, (or even the underneath part) that close on timers, and open on timers. You could get locked away from your team, or a cap point or two locked away temporarily. Missile strikes in river city. Artillary/coastal bombardment in Crimson. 30 second WHITE OUT snowstorms in frozen, where even heat vision only works 10M in front of you. Flares in river city night that make night vision go all "green screen" for 4-5 seconds.

its just stuff to shake it up, add tactics, and prevent zerg herds. its like AMS. if you could convince all 11 of your team mates to equip it, what missiles? But that is pretty well impossible in any online game outside of premades, which isnt really what i am talking about when describing the map issues on terra anyway.

DAT PUG.

[JeepStuff]

I agree with the others that said if rushing the center is working for you, then we aren't playing at the same level. I'm not saying I'm better or worse than you -- I have no idea -- I'm just saying we're not at the same level. At my level, whatever that is, the imbeciles rush the center and the winning teams wait outside.

That said, I don't hate the idea of an erupting volcano. That could be an interesting mechanic.

[PhoenixFire55]

Eldagore, on 16 February 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

So then: every 3 minutes there is an event in the middle, eruption, massive heat spike, I dont care really, something volcano themed. This allows the center to be useful as a flanking/movement hub, but not to camp and defend with impunity. It would also shake things up in conquest, making that cap point risky buisness.

Love the idea. Totally random eruption (may happen like 10 times in 15 mins may not happen at all) that does 100 points of damage (insta-kill) to each location on every mech inside the crater. Can be detected 10 (20) seconds before it happens with seismic (advanced seismic) sensor.

[Ozric]

First order on every match of therma. 'Everyone to the Murderbowl!'

[Ghogiel]

If you have a lot of bad players what happens is they all try to breach theta from F5/6 ramp.

When that it is so obviously the worst possible entrance to the center, and you only have to have played the map 10 times and have 2 brain cells to start seeing the pattern. But it happens every. single. time.

Edited by Ghogiel, 19 February 2014 - 01:03 PM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Ghogiel, on 19 February 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

If you have a lot of bad players what happens is they all try to breach theta from F5/6 ramp. When that it is so obviously the worst possible entrance to the center, and you only have to have played the map 10 times and have 2 brain cells to start seeing the pattern. But it happens every. single. time.

Witnessed this once again actualyl in a same match with you. You shouting in the team chat several times "do not breach, don't breach!" but they keep going for slaughter. I didn't know if I should laugh or cry...

[Roadbeer]

The center of Mt. Doom is called the PUGZAPPER for a reason.
Nobody should go there....ever.

[Zordicron]

You know, I was in 3 matches there again last night in various variants of my trollmandos. All 3 matches(2 skirmish and one conquest) had the mount doom as 90% of the focus of fighting again, even the conquest one(though it took a little longer to end up there)

I was on both sides of the wretched fight too, watching team mates try to single file up the ramp in one skirmish, watching them try to clump in a door in the conquest, and a little of both in the other skirmish. And it isnt even really the whole pug team, but it only takes one lance, or one assault mech that a few others will follow to create this situation.

Also, in the end, no matter if you feel it is bad/good/awesome/evil to go in the stupid ring, the fight goes there. And, even if you manage to convince 10/12 of your team NOT to go there( I did this once, ONCE in the last 20 matches) and find a defensible area, the OTHER team will go there. One way or another, ONE team, or even half/most of one team, WILL go there. And then, 2/3 of the rest of this fairly well designed interesting terrain/map is a ghost town.

So the question isnt really "is it a good idea to go there" because the answer DOESNT MATTER SOME ONE WILL GO THERE EVEN IF IT ISNT YOU. And it hurts the map, because it makes the matches less interesting and 10000% more predictable. Need to scout? WTH why? you know if you dont go in there they will. So, follow your pug in there so your team isnt split in two to get roflstomped, or set up outside(and watch 2 of your team go in regardless) and wait for the enemy, it doesnt matter.


What I want, is somthing to make the volcano interesting, tactical, but overall NOT the place to spend 12 of 15 minutes of a match.

I was thinking more recently that this applies to the "garage" or whatever double decker thing in Crimson. That map at least in skirmish has a chance to evolve somewhere else. But it is still most of the initial focus, and I wish it wasnt predictable like that. Some periodic coastal bombardment with a 30 second warning timer would go a long way to keep people from camping the garage IMO.