21 replies to this topic

[ColdHeat]

I ask because the game gives me very often the awkward feeling that it's mech aren't scaled believable.

For example the Atlas cockpit sits behind only one eye. From the inside, the cockpit appears very generous in space. From the outside the eye is incredible tiny. Therefor you could get the feeling that this mech has to be huge. Same story with the Commando Light Mech. I always wondered how the pilot would fit into the half of that little head.

On the contrary mechs like the Hunchback or the Cataphract have a huge cockpit from the outside and aren't that much more generous in space as an Atlas's cockpit from the inside. Yet when you set those mechs right next to each other, the Atlas is only barely taller than a Cataphract. How does this fit together?

[Kjudoon]

Canon is not being followed on many things. Do not expect it to be followed here. There are Mediums taller than some Heavies and a couple of Heavies as big as Assaults. At range it is very hard to tell a Kintaro from a Victor and sometimes even an Atlas.

[Wintersdark]

If you extend your field of view, this becomes clear. The Atlas has a tiny little window, while mechs like the Griffon and Catapult have massive fields of view.

Get in a Catapult, hold down left control, look around. Then get in an Atlas and do the same.

Actually, here, I'll do it right now, and link the video in this post.

[Funky Bacon]

I always mistake the Quickdraw for a medium mech because its so big.

[ColdHeat]

So if i got you right the answer from Kjudon and Funky Bacon is "no" while Wintersdark would say "yes"?

A scaling issue ain't despicable by itself as it's a game that demands for balance. Yet it's still somewhat sad as in my opinion the game could use a good buff of atmosphere & immersion and a feeling for size usually always plays a part in these factors.

Edited by ColdHeat, 07 March 2014 - 04:42 PM.

[Wintersdark]

ColdHeat, on 07 March 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

So if i got you right the answer from Kjudon and Funky Bacon is "no" while Wintersdark would say "yes"?

A scaling issue ain't despicable by itself as it's a game that demands for balance. Yet it's still somewhat sad as in my opinion the game could use a good buff of atmosphere & immersion and a feeling for size usually always plays a part in these factors.

No, I don't say yes - rather, I'm saying that the cockpit sizes make sense. Overall, some mechs are larger or smaller than they should be relative to others, but... Eh, it's not so bad. Some people get really bent out of shape about some mediums in particular being very tall, but whatever.

I'm being lazy, though, and don't want to make videos at the moment. But yeah, just use freelook to look around in various cockpits. The Atlas's window is actually quite small compared to most other mechs, whereas the ones with large windows definitely benefit from huge fields of view.

Funky Bacon, on 07 March 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

I always mistake the Quickdraw for a medium mech because its so big.

lol!

[SirLANsalot]

There are 4 Archetype's that PGI uses for each of the mech chassis. Each one not only corresponds to each movement type but also its size. Lights are the shortest and have a small 1-3m difference in hight based on Humanoid or non. This applies to all mechs in each wight class with some of the ones on the border behaving or looking like the class above or below them.

You also have to keep in mind the Humanoid mechs are taller and somewhat a little thinner then the non humanoid mechs which tend to be shorter and squatter. A Locust is short and boxy but the commando is taller but thinner. The Cicada is the same way when compared to the Human looking Kintaro.

[Name140704]

No.

[FactorlanP]

I agree that mechs are NOT scaled correctly.

[AlexEss]

Kjudoon, on 07 March 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Canon is not being followed on many things. Do not expect it to be followed here.

Actually size is the thing that got messed with in canon material the most. There was no set guidelines and each artist and writer went with what felt best for the situation. Generally light mechs were smaller and the atlas was a tower of a mech then the rest of the pack, but beyond that things are pretty much up in the air. The Ral Partha miniatures made it even worse.

Also there is a weird effect in game that have our field of view being fairly high making some mechs have a feel of being taller then they actually are once put side by side.

Edit: To explain further.. In my Jenner i often feel that i sit higher up then what the height of the model would suggest. Same in my HBK and both these mech are known for being squat and low slung.

Edited by AlexEss, 07 March 2014 - 05:54 PM.

[Goose]

This

All bets are off …

[Alcom Isst]

AlexEss, on 07 March 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

Also there is a weird effect in game that have our field of view being fairly high making some mechs have a feel of being taller then they actually are once put side by side.

Meanwhile the FoV of the mechlab is somewhere near zero, and gives a perfect comparison view of the size of mechs.

[AlexEss]

Alcom Isst, on 07 March 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Meanwhile the FoV of the mechlab is somewhere near zero, and gives a perfect comparison view of the size of mechs.

Perfect is perhaps a mild overstatement unless you go all rambo with markers and dry-erase pen´s. It does a decent enough job but in order to get a perfect one you need to have them side by side in a model viewer or modelling software.

But in the end it is just opinions. Height is the data that most mechs lack as far as i remember.

Edited by AlexEss, 07 March 2014 - 06:07 PM.

[Koniving]

ColdHeat, on 07 March 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

I ask because the game gives me very often the awkward feeling that it's mech aren't scaled believable.

For example the Atlas cockpit sits behind only one eye. From the inside, the cockpit appears very generous in space. From the outside the eye is incredible tiny. Therefor you could get the feeling that this mech has to be huge. Same story with the Commando Light Mech. I always wondered how the pilot would fit into the half of that little head.

On the contrary mechs like the Hunchback or the Cataphract have a huge cockpit from the outside and aren't that much more generous in space as an Atlas's cockpit from the inside. Yet when you set those mechs right next to each other, the Atlas is only barely taller than a Cataphract. How does this fit together?

haruko, on 21 October 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

Also fun fact: In order for the model to correspond to your view of the in-game cockpit, it would have to be this big

Specifically...

The following mechs are NOT correct to scale due to a third party making the actual models.
Atlas. Hunchback. Commando.

The Atlas would be fine if the cockpit were in the nose instead of the eye.
The Hunchback's cockpit is as large as the cannon shoulder hunch, and thus hovers above the hunch. If it were properly sized with the mech you wouldn't see over the gun at all.
The Commando, even if the pilot were sitting in the center of the head, is too small to fit a pilot in the position he sits in. The cockpit is entirely too large.

For comparisons, check this thread out.
Engineer on the back of a Commando. Notice the size?


Pilot inside the Atlas. Notice the feet sticking out when posed like the MWO pilot.
Just a note: MWO used the nanosuit character from Crysis to create the pilot.




Cataphract with cockpit inside cockpit pilot inside cockpit.


The pilot can fit inside the Locust just fine, so long as his arms are squeezed together more than they are in the cockpit view. The cockpit view would have to be slightly narrower to fit the mech itself.



The Centurion is the first medium to made to a scale where the pilot fits perfectly.


The Shadowhawk pilot fits perfectly, as does the cockpit view.


Enjoy! All images done by Haruko. Enjoy his/her thread.

Edited by Koniving, 07 March 2014 - 08:32 PM.

[Deathlike]

I know someone has their sig dedicated to this phenomenon with certain mechs being broken by this behavior with the cockpit.

That goes beyond the scaling issues with mechs in this game..

[FupDup]

Many mediums are sized too large for the amount of armor and firepower they can carry. Some heavies (Dragon, Catapult, and especially Quickdraw) are also a bit too large for their capabilities. One could also argue that the Raven might be slightly too big for what it can accomplish compared to other lights.

Edited by FupDup, 07 March 2014 - 06:36 PM.

[Jin Ma]

Koniving, on 07 March 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

Specifically...

The following mechs are NOT correct to scale due to a third party making the actual models.
Atlas. Hunchback. Commando.

The Atlas would be fine if the cockpit were in the nose instead of the eye.
The Hunchback's cockpit is as large as the cannon shoulder hunch, and thus hovers above the hunch. If it were properly sized with the mech you wouldn't see over the gun at all.
The Commando, even if the pilot were sitting in the center of the head, is too small to fit a pilot in the position he sits in. The cockpit is entirely too large.

For comparisons, check this thread out.
Engineer on the back of a Commando. Notice the size?


Pilot inside the Atlas. Notice the feet sticking out when posed like the MWO pilot.
Just a note: MWO used the nanosuit character from Crysis to create the pilot.




Cataphract with cockpit inside cockpit.


The pilot can fit inside the Locust just fine, so long as his arms are squeezed together more than they are in the cockpit view. The cockpit view would have to be slightly narrower to fit the mech itself.



The Centurion is the first medium to made to a scale where the pilot fits perfectly.


The Shadowhawk pilot fits perfectly, as does the cockpit view.


Enjoy! All images done by Haruko. Enjoy his/her thread.

These mechs were deigned aesthetically rather than realistically. and that is fine by me. I would hate to have a commando with a massive head just so that we can say the person fits comfortably in the cockpit.

afterall Alex's designs are beautiful

[FupDup]

Jin Ma, on 07 March 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

These mechs were deigned aesthetically rather than realistically. and that is fine by me. I would hate to have a commando with a massive head just so that we can say the person fits comfortably in the cockpit.

afterall Alex's designs are beautiful

B-b-b-but my precious realism in a game about fighting imaginary giant robots across the galaxy!

Edited by FupDup, 07 March 2014 - 06:42 PM.

[Sephlock]

[Koniving]

Jin Ma, on 07 March 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

These mechs were deigned aesthetically rather than realistically. and that is fine by me. I would hate to have a commando with a massive head just so that we can say the person fits comfortably in the cockpit.

afterall Alex's designs are beautiful

I'm speaking in terms of being able to hold the pilot and hold the cockpit we see.

Of course, if I were designing it there wouldn't be a universal pilot pose. Some cockpits would be more cramped than others, and some would be given rather weird positions to be in. For example with the Locust, I would have had the pilot laying down inside. A puke bucket below the head, as I imagine with how bounce the Locust reportedly is in lore you'd need one.

FupDup, on 07 March 2014 - 06:35 PM, said:

Many mediums are sized too large for the amount of armor and firepower they can carry. Some heavies (Dragon, Catapult, and especially Quickdraw) are also a bit too large for their capabilities. One could also argue that the Raven might be slightly too big for what it can accomplish compared to other lights.

Their capabilities in damage to each other is supossed to be double what they do. None of them are supposed to carry the armor that they have in this game. Example, a Jager S has 6 tons of armor, that's 96 points of "armor" or in MWO, that's 192. Either way, they're not too big.

The Catapult when you consider the location of entry hatch and ejection system to be rear-ward by lore, then the Catapult we have actually has no space to hold an engine let alone any torso mounted ammunition. Funny thing is by lore, the Catapult would also be considerably Larger.




The Raven is too skinny, slightly too long, but otherwise with the redesign It's human pilot fits perfectly and it's exactly the described height in most examples. The difference is that the legs are longer because the torso itself isn't the big chubby blob it's supposed to be.



When compared with other lights, the Raven's total surface area is actually inferior to that of the Jenner's. Legs are longer and the body is 'longer.' But the limbs are also thinner, and the nose is so thin it almost doesn't exist. Meanwhile the Jenner is quite unnecessarily huge and fat; kinda akin to lore.

The Jenner meanwhile might be only slightly taller than the Locust... But it's 1) thicker and meatier, and 2) 1+1/2 times as long as the Locust from rear to nose.

Meanwhile the Raven's rear to nose is only slightly longer than a Firestarter's body. Which makes up for the Raven's otherwise very slender frame. The area with the missile pods and weapon ports on the Raven kinda makes up for the lack of width as well, but ultimately the Raven is actually really pushing it for not being quite up to size with the other 35 tonners.

The long and short of it..meh, who cares so long as the pilot fits.

Oh, the Commando pilot can fit in the left eye if it were a very uncomfortable seating arrangement. The problem is it'd be like getting in a T-72 tank. If you're not especially short it might take you about 3 minutes to get in. The mainstay is that the "cockpit" we see can't fit into the Commando we have. Too roomy, too large, and the pilot's seating arrangement is impossible. But meh, things happen. Personally I'd like to sit down and redesign the game from scratch. Isn't gonna happen though, and neither is any fixes.

So enjoy. *Sips coffee.*