35 replies to this topic

[Hex Pallett]

And here are some thoughts.

Decision At Thunder Rift. One of the less-impressive stuff I read, but certainly not among the worse. Writing in some scenes felt quite lazy, and I still don't really understand how they managed to turn the tide of battle in the end there....

Could make hell of an action movie though.

However, now I really understand why people would like to see in-game NPCs. I mean, if an 20-tonner sounds like a grave threat and a 75-toner is like walking death...what I'm trying to say is, the whole power fantasy feeling is kind of lost in MWO, and MWO now feels not much more than a skill-based shooter.

Just some random thoughts.

[CyclonerM]

Am i the only one who actually liked Decision at Thunder Rift?

Sure, in MANY novels there are situations like "Ok , there is the good guys in a medium 'Mech vs a heavy 'Mech, a lance of tanks, two lights and Dropship firing on him, plus the 27th reincarnation of Chuck Norris, but with his piloting skill and a few very smart ideas he will eventually win and come back home safely".

But that is how it works, uh?

If nothing else, not ALL the "good" characters survive. Many, indeed, are assinated or die of violent death. Just remember Tyra Miraborg (who did not let loose a tear for her? She even got a few lines in the Remembrance to honor her sacrifice)
Justin Allard (dead by assassination)
Ulric Kerensky (dead by treachery)
and these are only the first and most famous characters who come in my mind. There are countless other secondary characters who die in horrible ways (stomped, burned, etc.). This is the real word, babies.

[Eglar]

Helmstif, on 07 April 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

And here are some thoughts.

Decision At Thunder Rift. One of the less-impressive stuff I read, but certainly not among the worse. Writing in some scenes felt quite lazy, and I still don't really understand how they managed to turn the tide of battle in the end there....

Could make hell of an action movie though.

However, now I really understand why people would like to see in-game NPCs. I mean, if an 20-tonner sounds like a grave threat and a 75-toner is like walking death...what I'm trying to say is, the whole power fantasy feeling is kind of lost in MWO, and MWO now feels not much more than a skill-based shooter.

Just some random thoughts.

Are you kidding me!? I loved decision at Thunder Rift!! oh well I was 16 back than. I also think that this was the reason why I secretly backed up the Gray Death Legion and Steiner instead of Davions even during the Fedcom civil war and was very sad whey they got smashed at the very end.

Edited by Eglar, 07 April 2014 - 09:07 AM.

[Hex Pallett]

Because recently I read a few really, REALLY good fantasy novels. Namely, The Witcher saga. Andrzej Sapkowski is a f**king master of words and creating intense characters.

But I'm not hating Thunder Rift. Fairly sensible character development, some well-sorted out action scene and an interesting lead female character - it's a solid "okay".

Also I just got spoiled all over the face.

[CyclonerM]

Helmstif, on 07 April 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Also I just got spoiled all over the face.

Whoops, sorry

Well, that is actually all basic stuff you might read on Sarna.. I will edit my post anyway. Forget the deaths i mentioned and enjoy reading the novels! and i agree with Marack Drock: the Blood of Kerensky trilogy is a must and covers the invasion about to start in MWO (no, not the Wallet Invasion ).

[Hex Pallett]

Marack Drock, on 07 April 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

I gave Thunder Rift-
4 Star-Character Development
2 Star- Story (it was not immersive to me)
2 Star- How many people die (I thought it was lame)
3.5 Star- Realism.

Well the realism part ended for me when they managed to beat a few lances of Mediums and Heavies with a combined tonnage less than 100. Fair judgement other than that. Anyway, I'm definitely getting to Blood f Kerensky trilogy after the Grey Death Legion books.

Speaking of Tolkien, I can't seem to remember TLOTR trilogy being that good. Maybe it was because some of the magic was lost in translation - my English was way inadequate back then, and the Chinese translation has flaws pointed out several times. The only Tolkien book I *tried* read in English was Silmarillion and it was mighty boring. To think of it, I really should get back to those....

Also,

Marack Drock, on 07 April 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

I am working on my own Sci Fi/horror novels. They focus on the true horrors of war. Starts during a dropship landing and the ship is hit by anti air missiles. Pilots manage a semi successful landing at the cost of their own lives plus one member of the unit who is crushed by a piece of the ceiling. Next person get shot by a sniper but doesn't die instantly but is bleeding out and so the lead character has to administer the Coup de Grace (mercy killing). Next person is blown up by artillery blast, another is shot 15 times and dies instantly, and the last is shredded apart by shrapnel. Of the entire cast of 15 characters in the first book 4 survive (and three of those 4 are taken away and never seen again).

This sounds VERY interesting....

[Pht]

I think a lot of us read the first few novels of the universe without taking into accout that they were ... um ... the first few novels. Starts are usually bumpy and unpolished.

[Spokes]

Decision at Thunder Rift is one of my favorite BattleTech novels, not for the characters or plot, but rather for the setting. The characters are only okay, the writing isn't the best and the story can feel contrived, but I think the author did a great job developing Trellwan as a place. A lot of the other novels just play the "meh, pretend it's Earth" card and call it a day, but Thunder Rift goes out of its way to describe the alien environment and then uses that environment to drive the story.

Of the three Saga of the Gray Death Legion books, I think Mercenary's Star is the best. Keep reading.

Helmstif, on 07 April 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

. . .and I still don't really understand how they managed to turn the tide of battle in the end there....

Thunder Rift Spoilers ahead. . .

Spoiler

Decision at Thunder Rift takes place near the end of the Third Succession War, which is a technological low point on the time line. Replacing armor plate is one thing, but when BattleMechs start taking internal damage it can be extremely expensive to repair, if it can be repaired at all. Many 'Mechs are centuries old and are all but irreplaceable. The Duke's Marauder takes a bad hit right at the end there, and with no way of knowing how many enemy 'Mechs are flanking his lines he makes the decision to fall back rather than risk losing his BattleMech. He has the insurgents trapped, and he knows he can repair his forces while the insurgents cannot.

Afterwards, Grayson reveals that he's managed to get a message to the Lyran Commonwealth government, rendering the Duke's plans moot. He could still make repairs and crush Grayson's forces, but there really isn't any point anymore.

[SnagaDance]

Well if you don't like people winning against ridiculously impossible odds I'd stay away from the Black Thorns books.

I own a lot of the BattleTech novels but the Black Thorns books I did away with. Just like Far Country and Star Lord.

And much like Spokes I don't like Decision at Thunder Rift (or any of the Gray Death novels to be honest) for the quality of the writing but how they show something more of the universe outside of what's seen from a mech's cockpit or that which takes place amongst high lords and ladies.

[Stormwolf]

I liked Decision At Thunder Rift (yeah, I'm also nostalgic), but you won't get any real milage out of it unless you also read "Mercenary's Star" and "The Price of Glory". The Price of Glory is a rather important story in the BT universe, but I won't spoil it if you consider to read it.

Now, the "Warrior Trilogy" and "Blood of Kerensky" series are where all the major events in the setting start, they'll be a bit more to your taste. They cover both the 4th Succession war and early Clan invasion from start to finish.

The "Legend of the Jade Phoenix trilogy" is pretty much recommended reading if you are getting into the Clans, though it's not everybody's cup of tea. This is primarily since the protagnist is not really much of a hero character, some might argue that he's more a anti-villain.

I'd discuss more book series, but the ones above are really the ones that are relevant during the timeperiod MWO is supposed to be set in.

Edited by Stormwolf, 09 April 2014 - 10:17 PM.

[Spokes]

Wolves on the Border and Heir to the Dragon are two of my favorites and, like the Gray Death Saga, they fall before the Clan Invasion on the time line. They are relatively well written and present a rare non-FedCom perspective of the BattleTech setting.

I highly recommend them. Especially if you have any interest in Wolf's Dragoons or the Draconis Combine.

The Jade Phoenix Trilogy is a good counterpoint to the Blood of Kerensky trilogy. They are written from a darker perspective, and the author paints the Clans with a much broader brush than Stackpole does.

[SnagaDance]

Spokes, on 09 April 2014 - 10:30 PM, said:

The Jade Phoenix Trilogy is a good counterpoint to the Blood of Kerensky trilogy. They are written from a darker perspective, and the author paints the Clans with a much broader brush than Stackpole does.

IMO Robert Thurston is not a very good writer though (based solely on his BattleTech books). I find this has all to do with his characters, all of whom seem to have mostly 3 main emotions/desires ruling them and don't seem to have any personality outside of these constraints. They just don't seem to deal with anything outside of their core interests.

You could make a case that's the way people might develop when the product of a eugenics warrior program where you are provided with a single goal in life but I think that even here in RL where you have people obsessed with a single thing they still have a broader personality than the characters in Thurston's books.

With the dearth in Clan POV writing from around the Clan Invasion though there's really not much else to fall back onto, and as such it does provide an inside view of a/the Clan(s).

I'll chime in on the Heir to the Dragon and Wolves on the Border (not it's not so direct sequel Wolf Pack though).

I'll also recommend the books about Camacho's Cabalerro's (Close Quarters, Hearts of Chaos and Black Dragon). I also like the books following Aris Sung by Loren Coleman. Gives a far fairer look into Capellan Society than most other sources do (Wah, insane Chancellors! Police State).

[Pht]

Marack Drock, on 08 April 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

Eragon, The Hobbit, StarCraft novels, Narnia, etc non of them were what I would call bumpy or unpolished. BT's original few writers I didn't like much. I liked Stackpole and Coleman the best out of all of them.

Of the citations you've made, I can at least tell you that ... the hobbit came long after tolkien had formed his fictional universe. The LOTR book (was intended as a single book) came before the hobbit. Tolkien had to publish the hobbit in order to get the later published books into release...

and I simply meant that most novel series start off rough, compared to books later in the series.

Come to think of it, ditto for most animated cartoons.

[Hex Pallett]

Dayum, sh*t just got real serious up there

Speaking of which, I can't help but giggle a bit that Tolkien wrote the trilogy BY REQUEST after The Hobbit, a truly family friendly fantasy tale.

Then sh*t just elevated real quick....

[Pht]

I was merely pointing out that the hobbit was *not* the orginating work in tolkien's series. It was set in an already established (and thus already bearing some polish) fiction.

Marack Drock, on 12 April 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

WRONG! Tolkien released the Hobbit in 1937 nearly 15 years before the LOTR.

Well, yes, I did get one thing wrong ... it was the silmarillion that tolken had mostly written before the hobbit. Other than that, I did not say that tolkien released LOTR first. *I said he had written it first.* But obviously I should have said the silmarillion, not LOTR.

Quote

In 1925, the family moved to Oxford where he became Rawlingson Professor of Anglo-Saxon and Fellow at Pembroke College, beginning a tenure of 24 years. It was at this time (approx 1933) that he began telling his children bedtime stories about a funny little creature named Bilbo. This story later evolved to become The Hobbit.

http://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A672022

This places the hobbit at around 1933 for origination, while the silmarilion:

Quote

The earliest drafts of The Silmarillion date back to as early as 1925, when Tolkien wrote a 'Sketch of the Mythology'. However, the concepts for characters, themes, and specific stories were developed starting in 1917 when Tolkien, then a British officer stationed in France during World War I was laid up in a military field hospital with trench fever. At the time, he called his collection of nascent stories The Book of Lost Tales Part One.

Places at about 1917-1925. Thus eight years worth of polish on the lore that the hobbit was set in.

Quote

Don't fight me on Tolkien stuff, ...

Marack Drock, on 12 April 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Its true. I met a guy who had known professor Tolkien so... don't mess with me.

I have no intention to be uncivil, but this is nothing but blood in the water to me.

Quote

PHT- How about I don't assume spew non sense about BT and you don't about Tolkien. I think it is given you know way more BT than I do, and I will be the one who paves the road to the Green Dragon Inn and Baradur.

How about you don't assume what I do and don't know when you have no way of knowing what I know?

Edited by Pht, 12 April 2014 - 11:53 AM.

[Hex Pallett]

*grabs popcorn* *sits down with grin on my face*

[East Indy]

I liked Heir to the Dragon's handling of battles in a way other than "AND THEN SRMS HIT HIS ENFORCER'S RIGHT TORSO, RIGHT ARM AND LEFT LEG" roll-by-roll fan service found in most BT fiction -- even though I was once 15 and still find the tabletop overture endearing.

Thunder Rift worked as a young adult action novel, and especially succeeded in making 'Mechs appear powerful no matter what their size or number. Plus, Lori and cockpit heat. Heh.

[CyclonerM]

Marack Drock, on 15 April 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

How did Missiles hit his Right torso and right and and let leg.. BUT MISS THE RIGHT LEG!?

Dice roll.

[Stormwolf]

Marack Drock, on 15 April 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

It still makes no sense to me. Somehow missiles hit his right torso and arm, missed his left torso, right leg, and center torso to hit the left leg....... It just doesn't add up to me (maybe that's why I failed miserably at TT).

Sure it can, the missiles are spread out, some will fly past the mech entirely.

Edited by Stormwolf, 15 April 2014 - 10:53 AM.

[SnagaDance]

Torso twisting