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3/3/3/3 Will Become Boring And Make A Lot Of Heavy/assault-Pilot Angry - Here Is My Solution


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#1 Evil Ed

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:03 AM

3/3/3/3 will become boring and make a lot of heavy/assault-pilot angry - here is my solution, and also a vision about how to “democratize” the matchmaking with a system where flexible players benefit from shorter queuing times and maybe some extra bonuses.
Rather the shoehorning all player into one vision - forcing one experience I’d like to see each player form their own game. Why not create a system where the different players needs overlap and from that create matches and glue it all together using players that are just fine with any. By doing so we will have a much happier community - returning customers if you like.

First, I kind of like the 3/3/3/3-idea. The game will get a different flavour - more action, more role-playing etc. But - after a while it will be obvious that 3/3/3/3 limits the game too much. What also worries me is that there seems to be no built-in mechanic to handle any imbalances in players choice of weight class. We will all be waiting for the limiting weight class (mediums), and the only factor that balances the waiting time is players surrendering and pick mediums or quit the game. Heavy and assault-pilots will struggle with long queuing times and rather than forcing them into mechs they don’t want to play, and in the long run making them leave the game, I think the 3/3/3/3-idea will have to be revised. Adding to that I think it will be boring with the same weight distribution every match, the game will lose a lot of the dynamic.

Solution: Add different weight distributions. For example, I’m borrowing this from the excellent MRBC league, four different distributions (lights/mediums/heavies/assaults): 8/4/0/0, 4/4/4/0, 2/4/4/2, 2/0/4/6 (no need to discuss the distributions and the number of them, they only serve as examples).
The matchmaker will now have an opportunity to balance the matches with respect to the mech selection of the players. If the player base prefers lights: create more 8/4/0/0- and 4/4/4/0-matches. If the players run assaults: increase the number of 2/0/4/6-matches.
Add these options to the launch window (where we select game mode), if a player don’t want to participate in the superheavy distribution the player can deselect this one, etc. - lots of opportunities for players to create their own experience. The players selections, elo and current selected mech are compared to live matchmaking data and an estimated queuing time (with warnings if needed) is presented. The player can now balance selections with individual acceptable queuing time. If a player have very specific selections - prepare to wait.
Now both the matchmaker and players will have opportunities to cut queuing times and players still pilot the mechs they want to. Players that run any/any is the true asset in this model, they help the matchmaker get matches started by cutting queuing times and should be encouraged to do so. Give them a small MC/C-bill/XP-bonus. (Award: Versatile mech-jockey!). Being the nice guy that helps the matchmaker get a few hundred matches started is worth MC equal to the price of colour in my opinion...
Want to spice it up further? Add an option to accept asymmetric weightmaking. With that we can have the perfect weight balanced matches for the players who wants that, create an option for us who like going hard mode not knowing what we are up against (and smashing 200 tons heavier teams!) and also make it even easier for the matchmaker to get a match started. Still - no one can complain about weight difference: Just deselect asymmetric weightmaking...

I’m also thinking about a slider where solo players can inform the matchmaker about their opinions about premades and prefered maximum number of players in premades. My general idea is that the players should be put in charge in this matters. If I as a solo player don't want 11-player premades in my game - I just set a slider to prevent that (and by doing so punish the 11-premades and myself in some degree with longer queuing times). If I as a solo player don’t want any premades at all I set the slider to 1. If I (this is probably what I would try…) as a solo player wants to experience dropping in matches with many players in premades but can accept some queuing time - I set the min-slider to for example 5. Yes, there is solo players who like to drop with/against premades!
Premades on the other hand has to fulfill the weight distribution requirements (narrowing down the larger the premade get), and will also be offered a slider with players in premade difference accepted (4 player premade with setting 2 can face premades with 2-6 players etc.). Same here as with solos - MC/C-bill/XP-bonus for using flexible settings.
See? Larger premades are now democratized, if no-one or few wants to play with/against them (by telling the matchmaker so by using sliders) they will get prolonged wait or no matches at all - and can’t blame PGI for that. 5-11 player premade issue solved...

Edited by Evil Ed, 14 April 2014 - 07:04 AM.


#2 FupDup

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:28 AM

Here is my solution: http://mwomercs.com/...-3-role-warfare

#3 Mechteric

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:29 AM

View PostEvil Ed, on 14 April 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

3/3/3/3 will become boring and make a lot of heavy/assault-pilot angry -


I'm sorry but I just don't buy into this prediction. Lets see what actually happens when more medium mechs are fielded instead of more assaults.

#4 BARBAR0SSA

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:41 AM

Probably the ONLY way around this would be to create a waiting room type lobby with a team tonnage limit and max user cap

A person could be a "captain"

Captain would have a weight limit max/range Lets say 500

Captain could then say give me 5 Atlas (Atlai?) (as an extreme) and could further be allow specific of give me 5 Atlas with AMS/2 with ballistics/3 with LRM or whatever

You get put on team window showing layout of all other team mates, you're given 30 seconds to leave/be kicked

Team is launched

This could go even further and show list of teams and overal ELO rating and use it as a handicap, so if you build a 3000 elo team vs a 1500 one then "penalty x" is done, or heck if the 1500 team wins give them a huge CB/XP bonus and penalize the 3000 elo team on a "ladder of shame" some incentive to not just lose. There could be a chance for abuse as always.

Could be adapted to CW where it's only house players, have actual ladder ranking systems of players, allow community managed groups and "friendships" emerge along with maybe giving pugs vs premades more of a chance.


That would eliminate the strict structure but then you're waiting on someone to create a team, i'm sure you could have a premade save template.


That's pretty much the only way I can see around the 3/3/3/3 worries, is allowing it to be player run.

#5 Macbrea

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:40 AM

As a non-assault pilot, I find having to chew through 7-9 assaults worth of armor annoying. I cannot pack enough ammo on my mechs to effectively allow me to beat down more then 1-2 of them. 3/3/3/3 cannot arrive here fast enough, I seriously doubt any players sit down at a gaming table and say oh, take 7 atlases, I will take 5 highlanders and 3 battlemasters.

#6 TygerLily

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:00 AM

It's a hard sell to claim something is a failure before it exists. I can understand the "long wait" idea but I honestly don't think it will be a problem.

I do like the idea of "3/3/3/3 in spirit but not strictly 3/3/3/3 for every match". I wouldn't go so far as saying tailored to an individual basis but I think something like:

2/2/4/4 for Skirmish (or 2/3/3/4)
3/3/3/3 for Assault (or 2/4/3/3)
4/4/2/2 for Conquest

...that might be a nice way to bring out the "flavor" of the modes. Plus, the first column is easy to remember..."3/3/3/3 for Assault. 4/4/2/2 for Conquest, it's inverse for Skirmish."

The beauty of the straight 3/3/3/3 rule is that unless you are playing in a group of 4, you don't really have to think about it. If you have 3, you won't pass the limit no matter what...drop in what you want. Pugging? Drop in what you want.

Once you get to 4, you have reached a point where someone can't take what they want (that 'odd' fourth man) However, he will most likely just drop in the next nearest weight class anyway... The more you lower the weight chassis limits the more 'odd men out' you'll start having - ie increasing the points where someone can't play what they want. If the goal is to maximize freedom (lowest the odd-man-out points) and keep an even spread, 3/3/3/3 is the magic number.

View PostMacbrea, on 14 April 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

As a non-assault pilot, I find having to chew through 7-9 assaults worth of armor annoying. I cannot pack enough ammo on my mechs to effectively allow me to beat down more then 1-2 of them. 3/3/3/3 cannot arrive here fast enough, I seriously doubt any players sit down at a gaming table and say oh, take 7 atlases, I will take 5 highlanders and 3 battlemasters.


YES.

Edited by TygerLily, 14 April 2014 - 10:05 AM.


#7 Modo44

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:01 AM

You stick to lights/assaults to be less affected by how silly premades unbalance matches -- on both sides of the scale. 3/3/3/3 will prevent the silliest weight issues, and allow some of us to finally take whatever we feel like instead of certain classes.

3/3/3/3 will also not automagically fix all problems. It will obviously need further tweaking, but maybe wait for some data and playtime experience to see how, exactly. This is just as premature as the "this or that Clan mech builds" threads.

Edited by Modo44, 14 April 2014 - 09:03 AM.


#8 Evil Ed

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:14 AM

View PostMacbrea, on 14 April 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

As a non-assault pilot, I find having to chew through 7-9 assaults worth of armor annoying. I cannot pack enough ammo on my mechs to effectively allow me to beat down more then 1-2 of them. 3/3/3/3 cannot arrive here fast enough, I seriously doubt any players sit down at a gaming table and say oh, take 7 atlases, I will take 5 highlanders and 3 battlemasters.


If you read my OP you will notice that I propose the option for you to deselect the heaviest dropdecks - but still not forcing everyone else into 3/3/3/3. Opportunities for everyone to play the game they want.

#9 Stealth Raptor

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:18 AM

another factor to this is that its not just the fact that the game is assault heavy. it is assault heavy because the game favors it, not because the players favor it. as someone who once considered himself a light pilot, i definitely enjoy the lighter roles immensely. however when it comes down to it, im more effective in an assault because it is a heavy oriented game. as soon as 3/3/3/3 is implemented a lot of people who have been playing heavy/assault will switch back to the lighter classes and the issue will be partially solved. it wont be perfect, but like said before there will be further tweaks.

#10 Bobzilla

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:19 AM

View PostEvil Ed, on 14 April 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

3/3/3/3 will become boring and make a lot of heavy/assault-pilot angry -


3/3/3/3 will become exciting and make a lot of heavy/assault-pilot happy.


Both views are just as valid as we really don't know whats going to happen, so lets not try to fix something that not only isn't broken, but isn't even used yet.

#11 Moromillas

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:00 PM

View PostEvil Ed, on 14 April 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

3/3/3/3 will become boring and make a lot of heavy/assault-pilot angry -

I was hoping for something substantive as to why you think this is factual, or even more probable. But instead, it appears that you pulled this out of your *******.





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