35 replies to this topic

[Osric Lancaster]

Modo44, on 22 April 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Variety. Different things working in the lowest and highest brackets. No easy setup for everyone.

It's not adding variety. It's taking away variety. The Victor was uniquely capable as a brawler. Now it's just a worse Highlander. If you want to limit turning and twist speeds on 'Mechs with overloaded engines, do it for EVERY 'Mech EQUALLY or not at all.

The 'Mech doesn't suddenly preform differently in a different Elo bracket.

You seem to think I'm arguing for the Victor when in fact I'm arguing against dumb misdirected band-****.

Do you know why I suggested this:
" A 40% reduction in the effect of engine rating on stock twist speeds and turning radius across all 'Mechs would have been a more sensible change and one that actually addressed the issue. "
?
Because it actually deals with the "over-engined 'Mechs get too much mobility and under-engined 'Mechs get too little mobility" issue directly and systemically.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 22 April 2014 - 06:08 PM.

[Modo44]

Osric Lancaster, on 22 April 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

The 'Mech doesn't suddenly preform differently in a different Elo bracket.

No, it just remains the strongest assault for good players.

[Gyrok]

Modo44, on 22 April 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Variety. Different things working in the lowest and highest brackets. No easy setup for everyone.

Any mech works good in high ELO brackets because you have VERY skilled players using them...

Newsflash: Victors are not in the competitive 12 mans anymore

[zudukai]

mech was nerfed too hard, it needs a slight buff.

[Osric Lancaster]

Modo44, on 22 April 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

No, it just remains the strongest assault for good players.

1 - Your opinion, unsubstantiated by numbers in any way, and besides the point.
2 - It's still a dumb band-aid nerf for something that could have been have been addressed better, and across all 'Mechs.

[Gas Guzzler]

Victor is now soley useful as a jump shooter. It works well because of its speed so you can get in position to shoot at someone. Reducing the adjustment to just default -10% instead of default -20% will not make it more effective at jump shooting. It will make it feel like its 80 tons instead of non-733C Highlanders (All Highlanders were set to default -10%, except for the 733C, which is at default, so 733Cs with equivalent engine sizes will actually turn and twist faster then Victors). This is NOT correct.

[Gyrok]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 April 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

Victor is now soley useful as a jump shooter. It works well because of its speed so you can get in position to shoot at someone. Reducing the adjustment to just default -10% instead of default -20% will not make it more effective at jump shooting. It will make it feel like its 80 tons instead of non-733C Highlanders (All Highlanders were set to default -10%, except for the 733C, which is at default, so 733Cs with equivalent engine sizes will actually turn and twist faster then Victors). This is NOT correct.

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about...

[Harathan]

The last time this came up in another thread, the same hilarious BS arguments were used to try to justify the nerf; specifically that because the 80ton Victor *can* use jumpjets and *can* use very large engines, nerfing it to the point where it twists like the 100ton Atlas is fair.

The same fools trying that line of reasoning would, I guarantee, be the first in line to complain if all JJ capable mechs of all weight classes got the same nerf. Spider? Make it twist like a 50ton mech. Firestarter? Make it twist like a 55ton mech. Shadowhawk? Make it twist like a 75ton mech.

Whats that? It wouldnt be fair? Good Lord, you're right! But that must mean... it wasn't fair for the Victor either!

Edited by Harathan, 24 April 2014 - 08:22 AM.

[Gyrok]

Harathan, on 22 April 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

The last time this came up in another thread, the same hilarious BS arguments were used to try to justify the nerf; specifically that because the 80ton Victor *can* use jumpjets and *can* use very large engines, nerfing it to the point where it twists like the 100ton Atlas is fair.

The same fools trying that line of reasoning would, I guarantee, be the first in line to complain if all JJ capable mechs of all weight classes got the same nerf. Spider? Make it twist like a 50ton mech. Firestarter? Make it twist like a 55ton mech. Shadowhawk? Make it twist like a 75ton mech.

Whats that? It wouldnt be fair? Good Lord, you're right! But that must mean... it wasn't fair for the Victor either!

This, sadly, is the truth...light pilots whine because a very light assault mech can track them well enough that skilled pilots can fight them off...then what happens? Mobility gets nerfed in the name of "preventing jump sniping"...? ... But...? *jump sniping requires no mobility above and beyond JJs*

...

???



Though, the second they discuss lights being too mobile, here comes every squirt out of the woodwork to defend lights and explain how a Jenner being able to 1v1 an Atlas and win a FAR higher % of the time than they should is "balanced"...?

Edited by Gyrok, 24 April 2014 - 12:13 PM.

[WonderSparks]

I personally find the Victor to be fine, but then again even an Atlas maneuvers pretty quick to my expectations, so... perhaps I'm used to things being slower than the rest of you lot?

[Iqfish]

Oh a super fast Assault Mech with jumpjets and arm Energy/Ballistic weapons?

The nerf was fine. It hit hard and it should have hit hard.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I just hate the fact that I now "HAVE" to adopt the poptart meta for my Vic to have any level of success in it.

It was perfectly capable of brawling with weapons other than 2 AC-5/PPC setups, now thats all it can use.

Pre-Nerf I could stick a Standard engine in it and feel comfortable running around with an AC-20 a few streaks and mixed lasers, and put a beating on poptarts in cqb, and now.. pff I can't even guard my chest in time at 600 meters when I see it coming.

The players that were dominating in the Vic before, are the same people that could jump into any mech, even the crappiest one you can think of, and still kick the crap out of the average player.

If I were to point a finger at any single problem with the Vic, its the animation during jump-jetting causing the most problem.
That twitchy hunch over when the jets get tapped is easily as much to blame as the mechanic behind poptarting itself or the Meta.

If the Vic's animation during jetting was more solid and fluid like the Raven or Catapult or Spider, it would solve some problems IMO.

The Blackjack as well a handful of other mechs with jets also do that twitchy bow forward as they're launching.

Anyway, I would much prefer to see the Vic's old turning stats return, if not all the way then at the very least halfway back.

Edited by Mister D, 25 April 2014 - 03:05 AM.

[Gyrok]

Iqfish, on 25 April 2014 - 02:37 AM, said:

Oh a super fast Assault Mech with jumpjets and arm Energy/Ballistic weapons?

The nerf was fine. It hit hard and it should have hit hard.

What ELO bracket would you suppose you are in? Because whatever world that is, you must be angry for getting PUG rolled by the matchmaker. The Victor is garbage now...

Every time I play a match in a victor, I end up going to a Highlander the next match...and it makes me sad that my HIGHLANDERS are more mobile than my Victors. In what world should that EVER be true?

Here is an idea...let's put the same nerfs on every mech across the board...want to see a forum full of crocodile tears of QQ?? There are MANY far more deserving mechs...Let's start with mechs under 45 Tons. THAT would be FAR more fair in the name of balance.

Edited by Gyrok, 25 April 2014 - 11:29 AM.

[Iqfish]

Gyrok, on 25 April 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

What ELO bracket would you suppose you are in? Because whatever world that is, you must be angry for getting PUG rolled by the matchmaker. The Victor is garbage now...

Every time I play a match in a victor, I end up going to a Highlander the next match...and it makes me sad that my HIGHLANDERS are more mobile than my Victors. In what world should that EVER be true?

Here is an idea...let's put the same nerfs on every mech across the board...want to see a forum full of crocodile tears of QQ?? There are MANY far more deserving mechs...Let's start with mechs under 45 Tons. THAT would be FAR more fair in the name of balance.

Believe me, I am not getting PUG rolled and I am far away from being rolled.
I actually just bought another Victor to Master them out

[Gas Guzzler]

Iqfish, on 25 April 2014 - 02:37 AM, said:

Oh a super fast Assault Mech with jumpjets and arm Energy/Ballistic weapons?

The nerf was fine. It hit hard and it should have hit hard.

Oh yeah those arms move SO far....

Seriously though, 9S and 9B arms barely move. Not enough to justify that as a "pro" to the chassis. I see no good evidence here. I was really thankful I had my 9K when being circled by a light mech the other day. Without arm movement I would have been hosed. (9K can only equip one ballistic and cannot equip AC20).

Super fast assault mech... do you not realize that its 80 tons? Its barely out of the heavy class. You people need to stop using the "Assault" title as a justification. It should twist faster than a Highlander with the same engine size. There is no reason why it shouldn't! I challenge you to come up with an objective reason.

[HozeMonky]

Sooo maybe now that OP clan mechs are around they'll actually consider removing the Victor nerf? Naaah...