22 replies to this topic

[GrizzlyViking]

Please add an on/off toggle switch for both AMS and ECM. There are often situations where the ability to turn off either or both of these to avoid detection by the enemy would be strategically helpful.

[Ryokens leap]

If memory serves ECM toggle is J key, I do agree that AMS needs a toggle as well.

[GrizzlyViking]

Ryokens leap, on 21 April 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

If memory serves ECM toggle is J key, I do agree that AMS needs a toggle as well.

Yes, but what I am proposing is an on/off toggle switch for ECM in addition to the counter/disrupt mode toggle. If you are in close proximity to enemy Mechs, but not spotted, ECM's effects will alert the enemy of your presence before you want them to know you are there. If it could be turned off, it would help the true scout to be more stealthy as he spies on the enemy. This would be particularly handy for getting close to enemy forces to launch UAVs without being detected by them.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 21 April 2014 - 10:44 AM.

[Livewyr]

You want to be able to turn off ECM's *one* insignificant single drawback?
(Imagine the flaming going on in my head right now.)

Counter ECM is close enough. Just flip to it behind cover.

[GrizzlyViking]

Livewyr, on 21 April 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

You want to be able to turn off ECM's *one* insignificant single drawback?
(Imagine the flaming going on in my head right now.)

Counter ECM is close enough. Just flip to it behind cover.

Since you ask, counter ECM is detectable when in close proximity to Mechs with ECM and would have the same effect in giving away the presence of the scout as disrupt mode does.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 21 April 2014 - 11:19 AM.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Having a toggle for AMS has been discussed before, in most cases it's not the "giving away your position" that is the problem.

- It is the game coding for the AMS to know that it is in a tunnel, under cover, inside a building, does not have a clear line of sight to the missiles.
(many time's have I seen the AMS firing or trying to fire while under a platform, or through a building.)
- There is a difference between the AMS's detection range and when it starts to engage missiles.
~ Giving the Pilot a switch between having the system ON and Active, (detect and engage) as there should never be a method to completely shut off the sensor system. [Sensor and weapon are a linked unit]

With reference to the ECM and having the ability to turn it off:
- Given the current sensor detection ranges for enemy Mechs to see your Mech.
~ 800mtrs standard, add module 920mtrs, Advanced Module 1000mtrs.
- Add BAP for an additional 25% sensor/ detection speed range.
- Detection only within the 120 Deg.'s in front of a Mech, unless mounting the 360 module.

The Enemy Mech will not see any effect from having your ECM Mech close till you reach the boundary of 200mtrs where the ECM starts to show effect.
- By then an Advanced Seismic module would have announced your presence at the 250mtr range. So it would not matter at that point. (if the Enemy was standing still.)
- By turning your ECM to counter it will not show up on the Enemy's sensors as a "disrupt" signal/element, and your Mech shows up like any other Mech that is seen/not seen by the normal sensor equipment.
(again from the Enemy's 120 Deg. front arc)
~ The counter mode makes your Mech look and appear like any other Mech, and only has an effect on other ECM units.

9erRed

[Livewyr]

GrizzlyViking, on 21 April 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Since you ask, counter ECM is detectable when in close proximity to Mechs with ECM and would have the same effect in giving away the presence of the scout as disrupt mode does.

Yup. The Jesus Box has a flaw, in the all-to-common circumstance that another ECM mech is within 180m of you while you're trying to hide.

Feel free to explain to me why this overpowered piece of equipment needs to have its one flaw removed? Gimme another downside to this thing?

[GrizzlyViking]

Livewyr, on 21 April 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

Yup. The Jesus Box has a flaw, in the all-to-common circumstance that another ECM mech is within 180m of you while you're trying to hide.

Feel free to explain to me why this overpowered piece of equipment needs to have its one flaw removed? Gimme another downside to this thing?

I can't help you. You don't really want help.

[Livewyr]

GrizzlyViking, on 21 April 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

I can't help you. You don't really want help.

I'm not asking for your help.. I'm trying to help *you* understand why your call for improving the ECM is silly.

[GrizzlyViking]

Livewyr, on 21 April 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

I'm not asking for your help.. I'm trying to help *you* understand why your call for improving the ECM is silly.

I already understand what you think, I just think you happen to be wrong. You are set in your ways and not open to change.

[Livewyr]

GrizzlyViking, on 21 April 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

I already understand what you think, I just think you happen to be wrong. You are set in your ways and not open to change.

Ok, perhaps you would like to explain to me why I'm wrong then?

Is there a benefit to the game as whole to further improve ECM?

[GrizzlyViking]

Livewyr, on 21 April 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

Ok, perhaps you would like to explain to me why I'm wrong then?

Is there a benefit to the game as whole to further improve ECM?

I don't think being able to turn ECM on and off is an improvement, it is a feature. What makes you think being able to turn off ECM is an improvement to ECM?

[GrizzlyViking]

9erRed, on 21 April 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

Greetings all,

Having a toggle for AMS has been discussed before, in most cases it's not the "giving away your position" that is the problem.

- It is the game coding for the AMS to know that it is in a tunnel, under cover, inside a building, does not have a clear line of sight to the missiles.
(many time's have I seen the AMS firing or trying to fire while under a platform, or through a building.)
- There is a difference between the AMS's detection range and when it starts to engage missiles.
~ Giving the Pilot a switch between having the system ON and Active, (detect and engage) as there should never be a method to completely shut off the sensor system. [Sensor and weapon are a linked unit]

With reference to the ECM and having the ability to turn it off:
- Given the current sensor detection ranges for enemy Mechs to see your Mech.
~ 800mtrs standard, add module 920mtrs, Advanced Module 1000mtrs.
- Add BAP for an additional 25% sensor/ detection speed range.
- Detection only within the 120 Deg.'s in front of a Mech, unless mounting the 360 module.

The Enemy Mech will not see any effect from having your ECM Mech close till you reach the boundary of 200mtrs where the ECM starts to show effect.
- By then an Advanced Seismic module would have announced your presence at the 250mtr range. So it would not matter at that point. (if the Enemy was standing still.)
- By turning your ECM to counter it will not show up on the Enemy's sensors as a "disrupt" signal/element, and your Mech shows up like any other Mech that is seen/not seen by the normal sensor equipment.
(again from the Enemy's 120 Deg. front arc)
~ The counter mode makes your Mech look and appear like any other Mech, and only has an effect on other ECM units.

9erRed

I agree that there are several good reasons for an on/off toggle for AMS. As for your ECM thoughts, using seismic as an argument that turning ECM on/off does not matter only applies if the enemy has seismic and therefore is a moot point. Regarding disrupt, a scout in disrupt will be detected by disrupting the ECM of an enemy Atlas D-DC. There are several terrains that allow for enemies to be in close proximity of each other without any LOS. The purpose of the on/off toggle for ECM is to make the scout role better...and it would.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 21 April 2014 - 02:33 PM.

[Livewyr]

GrizzlyViking, on 21 April 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

I don't think being able to turn ECM on and off is an improvement, it is a feature. What makes you think being able to turn off ECM is an improvement to ECM?

If it wasn't an improvement, why would you want it?

[GrizzlyViking]

Livewyr, on 21 April 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

If it wasn't an improvement, why would you want it?

if it is an ECM improvement, then what do you think it improves?

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 21 April 2014 - 03:57 PM.

[Livewyr]

GrizzlyViking, on 21 April 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Please add an on/off toggle switch for both AMS and ECM. There are often situations where the ability to turn off either or both of these to avoid detection by the enemy would be strategically helpful.

[GrizzlyViking]

Livewyr, on 21 April 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

Good, you've got it now....thanks for chatting.

[Livewyr]

GrizzlyViking, on 21 April 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Good, you've got it now....thanks for chatting.

You're missing the point: ECM needs to to back to the way it worked in Lore/TT.. not get additions to add to the Stealth Armor aspect of it.

[GrizzlyViking]

Livewyr, on 21 April 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

You're missing the point: ECM needs to to back to the way it worked in Lore/TT.. not get additions to add to the Stealth Armor aspect of it.

MWO only conforms to lore and TT in as much as the Devs think something will bring a viable or reasonable aspect to the MWO format, but that has already been over discussed on these forum as you well know. As for the point...we need more role diversity in this game and anything that will encourage players to use scout Mechs more as scouts instead of mini-brawlers would be a benefit.

[Livewyr]

GrizzlyViking, on 21 April 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

MWO only conforms to lore and TT in as much as the Devs think something will bring a viable or reasonable aspect to the MWO format, but that has already been over discussed on these forum as you well know. As for the point...we need more role diversity in this game and anything that will encourage players to use scout Mechs more as scouts instead of mini-brawlers would be a benefit.

Dev's also thought that Ghost Heat would be a good addition...

Anyways- I have no problem with a stealth aspect being added to the game.. there's even one in lore! It's called the Null Signature System, which later is rebuilt into Stealth Armor.

The key difference is, for that equipment to function, it takes up 3-5 critical slots (outside of the ECM, which is required but does not function while the armor is active) and it generates 10 Heat while active.

Stealth armor is completely viable in MWO, however it needs to have its drawbacks to keep it from being a no-brainer equip-and-forget system. (Why haven't the devs haven't added any new ECM capable mechs if it is a "reasonable" departure?)

And just as a side note- the Stealth Armor would serve the purpose you were talking about: Stealth Armor is toggled on/off, and while it is active, the ECM field is shut down, so you get a double bonus: True stealth (not being locked) and the ECM shuts off! All for the low low price of 5-7 critical spaces and firing a PPC constantly. THAT is a balanced piece of equipment.


In regards to being able to toggle AMS on/off.. yeah, I'd totally get behind that.