126 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 21 April 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

If you know anything about Battletech lore you would know that charging, melee, melee weapons incuding maces, swords and axes are a huge part of this lore. And is a lot of fun.

I can understand how my meta Victor body-slamming into anything and everything below my tonnage at every single possible opportunity and dropping artillery/air strikes on them while they're down could be fun for my end, but it would probably be borked for the overall game.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Sure you can suicide charge my main any time.

[FupDup]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 21 April 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

Sure you can suicide charge my main any time.

I wouldn't be running across an open field, mind you. It would be more like playing conventional snipewars until somebody tries to get in close, then punish them for that attempt. Maps with lots of corners like River City would be particularly effective for this.

Edited by FupDup, 21 April 2014 - 04:29 PM.

[Artgathan]

Hey guys, lets make small lasers, machine guns and flamers even more dangerous for light mechs to use!

[Hawks]

Armored Yokai, on 21 April 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

I remember all the way back in closed beta there was this really cool feature called knockdown,

I don't remember that. I remember a really annoying, clumsy, ugly and badly implemented feature called knockdown that was usually exploited for griefing purposes.

[Duke Hector]

Aym, on 21 April 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

I assume this is on the backburner, right behind group play, behind CW, 90 days after launch.

and then another 90 days after they missed their first deadline only to miss the deadline again

[Jaeger Gonzo]

FupDup, on 21 April 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

I wouldn't be running across an open field, mind you. It would be more like playing conventional snipewars until somebody tries to get in close, then punish them for that attempt. Maps with lots of corners like River City would be particularly effective for this.

Fine that is called tactics. And remember anything that you can do others can do to you. Run at enemy is not so easy. Lighter mech then you should faster then you. Now If will have full melee implementation. Hmm Heavy Gear will have it...

[Aresye]

101011, on 21 April 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

The amount of hate for knockdown is surprising...
...(I never experience griefing with it)

Probably why it's surprising. Anyone who hasn't experienced the Dragon Linebacker will never understand just how bad of an idea it would be to reimplement collisions at their former state.

[101011]

Aresye, on 21 April 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

Probably why it's surprising. Anyone who hasn't experienced the Dragon Linebacker will never understand just how bad of an idea it would be to reimplement collisions at their former state.

Experienced it first hand? No. Seen the videos? Yes. As others have said, it would have to be changed quite substantially.

[FupDup]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 21 April 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

Fine that is called tactics. And remember anything that you can do others can do to you. Run at enemy is not so easy. Lighter mech then you should faster then you. Now If will have full melee implementation. Hmm Heavy Gear will have it...

Lighter mech can get hit and/or taken out at range just as usual without any difference. The change is that the opponent pretty much loses the option of getting within the 90m min range of my PPCs, unless they're heavier than I am (in which case I can almost always outmaneuver them). Managing to stay just within 90m and just far enough away to not touch would be doable in an open field, but maps aren't all made of open fields.

There are obstacles all over the place that my assailant has to watch out for or else he'll get stuck on them (thanks, new movement code!) which gives me time to catch up and/or just shoot him. If he turns away to watch where he's running, I have a straight shot at his juicy rear armor. And if he doesn't watch where he's going, he very well could get stuck on a rock and it's game over. It's a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't kind of situation.


I can live with melee provided that the animations are handled in a way such that they aren't awkward (too fast and it looks like infantry fighting, too slow and it looks too clumsy), but knockdowns I just can't stomach unless somebody somehow manages to solve the issues I mentioned in my first post in this thread.

[BlackBeltJones]

I miss knockdowns so much but my recent increased playtime has demonstrated that the new players may be too conditioned to the current situation to ever gracefully adopt a re-introduced knockdown mechanic. I have been amazed at the crowding that goes on, players choosing to crowd mechs into tight spaces (for superior positioning obviously) without regard for the player mechs already in that space. I get it, you want that spot because its the good sniper spot or whatever, but to me those spots are like bathrooms - either occupied or empty. I see that players are playing their mechs like one would play TF2 of CoD with their human avatar.
Certainly we can all appreciate that we all currently express our movement differently depending on our mode, on foot, by car, or in a train, yet in this game I observe players pressing mechs together in impossibly tight spots and in a manner no current vehicles could manage. For this observation I fear that knockdowns, no matter how well introduced, would be inconsistent with the current playstyle - re-introducing knockdowns may be the one thing that makes MWO depart from standard FPSs playstyles and for that reason it is likely too risky to do.

[Mister Blastman]

Yes please!
Keep the Dragon knockdown buff in, too. They need all the help they can get.

[Hawks]

I'm always puzzled when people complain about the lack of collision knockdowns in this game, because AFAIK none of the previous MW games have had them (please correct me if I'm wrong, I never played MW3 or the original MW). It would be like going to the French Open and complaining that the court is made of clay and not pizza dough.

[zudukai]

+1 bring it back, but nerf dragon bowling.

[FupDup]

Hawks, on 21 April 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

I'm always puzzled when people complain about the lack of collision knockdowns in this game, because AFAIK none of the previous MW games have had them (please correct me if I'm wrong, I never played MW3 or the original MW). It would be like going to the French Open and complaining that the court is made of clay and not pizza dough.

The only knockdowns in previous MW games were caused by massed weapons fire, not physical contact. Most of the time, it was also random-based rather than a 100% chance (unless you had a REALLY big weapon group). Also, in MW4 mechs could still fire while on the ground. MW3 knockdowns were kind of borked because you could occasionally knock over an Atlas just by grazing a Large Pulse Laser over its leg.

Edited by FupDup, 21 April 2014 - 05:46 PM.

[Armored Yokai]

Dragon and Quickdraw bowling would be nice
that would make least common mechs used for a more dangerous situation i.e
Charging and knocking down a jaeger with 2 gauss or 2 ac20s or a gausscat

[Karl Marlow]

101011, on 21 April 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

The thing is though, you certainly would not see facehugging anymore. It was not that common in TT, and it should not be this common now. You do not wish to get knocked on your ass? Then do not charge that Atlas! Common sense, quiaff?

It isn't common in TT because you would get punched, kicked, or hatcheted for your trouble. Physical combat and falling over are important parts of the Battletech TT game. That they are missing in MWO makes teh game feel awkward. I want to see them add in this kind of stuff but I want them to take the time to do it right.

[Foxfire]

Honestly, there are two things.

1) Knockdown filters out lackluster pilots from being in a light mech.
2) Knockdown also means collision and, if implemented right, will lead to.. at the very east, DFA attacks but also form a foundation for Melee attacks in the game.

It is a fundamental part of the game that should be in.. but needs to be implemented in a refined form and not as the placeholder that was in the game during CB.

[Hawks]

Hawks, on 21 April 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

I'm always puzzled when people complain about the lack of collision knockdowns in this game, because AFAIK none of the previous MW games have had them (please correct me if I'm wrong, I never played MW3 or the original MW). It would be like going to the French Open and complaining that the court is made of clay and not pizza dough.

Foxfire, on 21 April 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

It is a fundamental part of the game that should be in..

[Foxfire]

Hawks, on 21 April 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

And none of the other MW games had melee. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be attempted.