17 replies to this topic

[juxstapo]

Anyone driving a Fang anymore?
Waay back my best friend bought a Flame and kitted it out in a FotM manner according to the current forum fashion. I wanted to help push his enthusiasm for the game and snagged a Fang to compliment. Then never achieved competence in it. Not that it's the easiest chassis to get accustomed to, I know some folks who have done it.

I've mastered Catapults, Phracts, 2 Jagers, and 1 Orion.. and a Quickdraw before selling them. So I've got options, but recently, while discussing the rule of threes, it was pointed out that the Corsairs are kinda lax in the heavy class, and I realized I had a hero sitting around that I barely knew how to drive. (Got a lot of heros sitting around, but thats neither here nor there).

So... for you Dragon pilots, how would you kit out the much-less-popular twin?

[Tarriss Halcyon]

My personal build for Fang is LBX, 3x ML, and a standard engine. Doesn't look like much on paper, but no Dragon ever does. However, it's real worth comes in the fun factor. Since I'm a PUG for the most part, it involves a lot of battlefield awareness, because unlike my other Dragons (Sniper -1N and energyboat Flame), it has no real ranged weaponry. What it's designed to do is get into minor skirmishes or support brawlers, possibly peel off a few kills on damaged targets with the critseeker projectiles, then get out again. I've played it in just that method and pulled off 5-6 kill games in it, and on a good match, I can easily chew through all the LBX ammo I've got on there. Damage output is a little low, so it'll probably work better in co-ordinated matches where you know who is moving where. It does well on smaller maps full of cover, but the same can be said of most Dragons. It also seems to do an impressive job on Terra Therma.

The lack of XL is not something most Dragon pilots recommend, but I've only really found a use for it on my Gauss/ER Large sniper. In most cases, people assume the Dragon has an XL and aim for the shoulders, the same way people do it to Jagermechs. As such, the surprise factor of a skirmishing Dragon without an XL is an extra point of confusion for my enemy.

[NRP]

My favorite Fang build can be run on other Dragons:

XL340
AC/10
2 LLs

but this build can be fun too:

XL350
2 AC/5s
3 MLs

[CheeseThief]

I had good fun in a similar build to this in a 5N.

Pepper people at range with the AC5's, while still being able to deliver an up close punch with the lasers and missiles.

[TheDevilsIncarnate]

2xAc5, 2x Med Pulse, XL325.

'Nough said. It's a punisher. Obviously you will need all the weight saving you can get to fit anything reasonable in there.

[juxstapo]

Wow, honestly I mostly expected to receive scorn and little else for mentioning the lesser twin to begin with. I'm grateful to see folks have actually given this thing the time of day.
Thanks much guys, I will attempt... all of them.

Being an engine **** I was immediately leaning towards "big XL", but Tarriss your build racks up points for sheer novelty. (And I've literally got a single LB-10X loitering around my parts bin).
The other four are closer to what I was picturing. I think I've got a 360XL, AC/10 and 2x LLas on it right now. Will give 'em a whirl

edit: lol, even H o a r is filtered, nice.

Edited by juxstapo, 01 May 2014 - 05:42 AM.

[PLEXI]

FANG skirmisher

While a Dragon should never be caught in a stand up fight trading fire from cover, you should always make use of that high mounted energy hardpoint. Being able to snipe behind enemy lines into their rears while only exposing your head and tips of your shoulders should not be discounted. A peaking Dragon can be difficult to pin down if done right. I've chosen an ERPPC but this works just as well with the normal PPCs as well as Large Lasers and ER Large Lasers (depends on your heat management skills, downgrade for more DHS). Another option if you downgrade; it will free up a critical slot you can add FF to up the engine size (300 to 340).

The twin AC5s provide a low heat long range alternative that can also be chain-fired for suppressive fire and impulse for throwing off an enemy's aim at a moment's notice. Ammo is at a bit of a premium with this mech, so be careful with your shots. Spend as much time using your ERPPC to soften them up before moving in to shred them with the AC5s.

SRMs and LRMs I've used to varying degrees of success, but I don't trust the hits to register nearly as much as I do direct fire weapons. SRMs have failed me consistently at about a rate of 30-40%.

Edited by PLEXI, 01 May 2014 - 09:02 PM.

[juxstapo]

LBL?

Large Burst Laser?
Large Basic Laser?
Large Blue Laser?
Legally Bilateral Lassitude?

I appreciate the build, but what does LBL mean?

[Alaskan Nobody]

juxstapo, on 01 May 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

I appreciate the build, but what does LBL mean?

Large Busty Lady?
Large Black Lounge?

I'm guessing typo though - on a LPL.

[PLEXI]

LBL = Large Beam Laser
LPL = Large Pulse Laser

Apologies, carried over terminology from MWLL. Edited my previous post for clarification.

[Mad Ox]

Fang and Flame both fun mechs just a matter of finding a mix that works for you.

Also a mech that can go with XL for boost speed as people always target center anyway so not really losing much with engine in torso's.

And be sure to use that center torso Missile bay. I always pop at least LRM5 into it with 1 ton of ammo thats 36 shots not bad at all.

[Red Line Pilot]

I was thinking of buying one too. But i'll wait until the Quickdraw hero is out first, so i can compare.

If i had one this would be the first thing i'd try out:

FANG
AC10 (45)
SRM6 (200)
Large Laser
2 Medium Laser

XL300
13 DHS

[1453 R]

The high point of the Fang is its left-torso energy mount (high point…tee hee hee…). The 1C has two of them and in fact most any sensible build you can do on the Fang, you can also do on the 1C…but that just means that a lot of sensible 1C builds also fit on the Fang.

As stated, one of the most effective things you can do with the Fang (or any Dragon with that hardpoint) is to go hull-down peek-sniping with it. An ERPPC in that slot can hit anything you can see, and enough hits with that gun can bother even the largest ‘Mechs.

Some players emphasize the RA cannon slots, other players emphasize speed. I’m in the speed camp – the one advantage the Dragon has over other heavies is its footspeed, not taking advantage of it seems ludicrous to me. That and in order to get the ballistigun in play, you need to leave cover pretty much completely. As such, I tend to prefer either ignoring the cannon arm completely (Perfectly viable on the 1C, not such a hot idea on Fang), or loading a single larger cannon in that arm instead. An AC/10 or Gauss rifle in that arm can fire its shot, deal its damage, and let you get on to the business of leaving. And as any Dragon pilot knows, the Art of Leaving is a crucial skill to master in the chassis.

For the same reason, I sling both endo and ferro on all my Dragons, and consider them to be very much light-like in that any build which can’t accommodate both upgrades is a build that underperforms for the chassis. You need to be able to book it, and anything that can shave an extra ton off somewhere is something that lets you put that extra ton into the engine. Sure, you can run dual AC/5 and high-mount PPC with a 280XL in a Fang, absolutely nothing’s stopping you…but at that point, why aren’t you in a Cataphract, exactly? Pretty much every other heavy ‘Mech in the game is better* at raw firepower than the Dragon…but the Dragon is better than all of them at getting what firepower it does have into the perfect spot.

That and Dragons are never going to be sturdy, of course. If you’re going to be fragile, you may as well be fragile and hard to pin down. You’re a jetless Shadow Hawk with a beer gut – act like one.

*Dragons actually have a surprisingly high tonnage/armament ratio, given the necessity for XL engines in the things. I’ve done the math before, and it worked out that a Dragon w/300XL had slightly more equipment weight than a Cataphract with 280STD, assuming both ran ES and minimum DHS. The Dragon pulls ahead even farther when FF is considered. The ‘Mech can be surprisingly heavily armed for its weight – but again, doing so compromises the one thing it’s really got going for it.

[PLEXI]

1453 R, on 06 May 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

*Dragons actually have a surprisingly high tonnage/armament ratio, given the necessity for XL engines in the things. I’ve done the math before, and it worked out that a Dragon w/300XL had slightly more equipment weight than a Cataphract with 280STD, assuming both ran ES and minimum DHS. The Dragon pulls ahead even farther when FF is considered. The ‘Mech can be surprisingly heavily armed for its weight – but again, doing so compromises the one thing it’s really got going for it.

This seems incorrect. The CTF would edge out the DRG by about 2 tons I think. That being said, the overall advantage in my opinion still goes to the DRG, with the massive speed difference afforded by the XL 300 to the tune of 89.1 vs ~70 (after speed tweak).

To sort of expand upon what 1453 R has said regarding the desired speed of a DRG chassis. In my personal opinion; the sweet spot for the DRG is somewhere within the XL 300 - XL 350 range. I omit the 355 and 360 ratings because while they can be worthwhile for certain builds, I don't think the tonnage and resulting speed increase are necessarily worth it (though arguments can be made). The XL 350 still gives the benefit of four additional engine DHS, which is invaluable when utilizing upgrades such as ES and FF.

I typically run the XL 300 on my primary DRG build, with a few additional builds at each major increment fulfilling different roles (325, 340, 350, 360). While speed to armament balance is purely a play style choice, of which we can all agree with, I'd like to sort of defend the slower DRG builds to give way for a more in depth discussion that maybe juxstapo and anyone else could also benefit from.

To begin; On the lower end of the spectrum you have the trusty XL 300, which affords you around 30 tons of weaponry (full armor and after upgrades), while still being faster than any existing Heavy mech at 89.1 KPH, post speed tweak. (Obvious exception being similarly engine toting QKDs) While the difference in speed is only about ~3-5 KPH, most heavies will rarely run max engines, accentuating this difference in speed by a wide margin (as previously mentioned with the DRG and CTF comparison).. Even more so with careful cornering. This allows you to still exercise your mobility and elevation climbing advantage over similar heavy mechs while still bringing a potent amount of firepower to the table. (Out gun that which you cannot out run sort of mentality). I would argue positioning is more important to the DRG than raw speed. Doing both helps exceptionally, but at least for me personally; I prefer having the weaponry to shoot my way out should I be caught out of position when escape isn't viable (due to the size of the DRG and only 106.9 KPH max speed).

Now 1453 R brought up an excellent point in regards to not utilizing the full advantage of the DRG's higher engine cap versus taking a CTF or other comparable heavy. I would argue that the DRG still has several, if often overlooked advantages that make it competitive in certain aspects against the other heavies. However, those advantages don't quite receive the attention they deserve until you're strapped for tonnage in a tonnage restricted lobby. The DRG is a very flexible chassis and works well on every map provided it is played as intended. As a 60 ton sucker punch.

Edited by PLEXI, 06 May 2014 - 03:46 PM.

[Fang01]

I still run a fang. lpl 2 mpl ac2 and an mg with xl355

[IraqiWalker]

The Dragon has always been one of my favorite mechs. Probably because people bashed it so much (felt the same way about the Commando, which is hands down my best and most favored. I also like their play-style which is very similar to a light mech's piloting technique, except you're 60 tons, and have more guns. The Fang & Flame combo is nasty. If we had advanced armor types it would be even nastier. I still think it won't really shine until we get the LB-5X, then you can enjoy Dragons running around with 2 of these in one arm, doing drive bys on people's exposed parts.

[juxstapo]

@ 1453 R and PLEXI : that is exactly the sort of counterpoint, in-depth discussion about a chassis from individuals who have actually done the experimentation that I wish this subforum was full of. Taking both those posts to the Corsairs' homepage for dissection.

[1453 R]

PLEXI, on 06 May 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

[/snip]

Solid points excellently argued.

I’m not one to dismiss the 300XL dragons outright; I’ve used them several times myself to great effect, and the argument that you only ever need as much speed as is useful to get to where you need to go is a valid one.

However.

This came up in a debate on medium ‘Mechs a while back, more specifically the CN9-D and TBT-3C. The question was whether hitting ~100kph was sufficient, and if there was any reason to go the extra mile and sacrifice armament to get to the ~120kph mark. Most players seemed to think not – 100 klicks is fast enough to outpace anything but a light ‘Mech, and bringing more guns is always to the better.

I disagree.

To me, the difference between 100 and 120, or 90 and 104 in this case (assuming the 350XL, which I agree is the logical high-end engine for the Dragon), is a difference between being faster than your targets and being decisively faster than your targets. That extra ten or fifteen klicks could be the difference between getting into cover after taking two AC/20 shots from that ECM Fatlas hiding around the corner you just swung past, or taking just one. It also means that you get the speed advantage over everyone else who figured that the 300XL level was sufficient – your 90kph beats all the Orions and Cataphracts and JagerMooks out there, but it doesn’t beat my 104. 104 is also fast enough to try and get away from other abnormally quick larger ‘Mechs – such as lunatics like with a 385XL for their Victors. 90 isn’t getting you away from my VTR-9S’ 86kph flying AC/20, but 104 might.

You have to be more careful with your choice of armaments, of course. The 300XL Dragon can carry a surprising amount of gun for its weight while the 350XL Dragon cannot, but if you can get what you need on the 350XL, then the 350XL provides definite advantages of speed, agility, and heat sinking capacity. Heh…of course, I’m a Dragon pilot who came up to them from mediums and lights (philosophically, at least). Dragon pilots who’re coming down to them from bigger heavies and assaults are much more likely to have good games with a 300XL build emphasizing gun space. Which sort of pilot you are determines what engine weight you feel comfortable with, I suppose.