Jump to content

Holy Crap They Ruined The Gauss

Weapons Gameplay

120 replies to this topic

#61 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 11 May 2014 - 07:50 AM

View PostSybreed, on 11 May 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

the gun is just not fun to use anymore. I'd rather go with a simple fire delay after I click than having to keep the button pressed and release it. Sure, it might be easier to synchonise with PPCs, but ffs it'll at least be more fun to use. Now, I don't even try to play my mechs that use Gauss rifles.


Truth be told, I wanted that too (for the PPCs). Honestly though, for the Gauss I would have just preferred a longer reload time so that it'd be more imperative to make sure you were going hit before you fired.

Though I got something for ya. Autohotkey.
You can set up a macro to charge for exactly 0.75 seconds and release.

This is before. Minor language (excited trashtalk).


This is after.


#62 Sybreed

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,199 posts
  • LocationQuebec

Posted 11 May 2014 - 07:54 AM

View PostKoniving, on 11 May 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:


Truth be told, I wanted that too (for the PPCs). Honestly though, for the Gauss I would have just preferred a longer reload time so that it'd be more imperative to make sure you were going hit before you fired.

Though I got something for ya. Autohotkey.
You can set up a macro to charge for exactly 0.75 seconds and release.

This is before. Minor language (excited trashtalk).


This is after.


well, thx for the suggestion, but you kinda prove something I argued in another thread. The charge mechanic forces Gauss boating. From all the things PGI did to MWO, this is the most "pro-boating" mechanic I've seen.

#63 Lostdragon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,713 posts
  • LocationAlabama

Posted 11 May 2014 - 07:54 AM

The problem with the GR is it does big damage to one location. The only gun that hits harder is the AC20, and it has much shorter range and projectile speed. The charge up mechanic on the GR is not fun, however. My proposal to fix it is to remove the charge up mechanic but increase the cooldown to 6s and don't allow any other weapons to fire with the GR. Also do not allow any other weapons to fire while the GR is charging (if you need to justify this the targeting computer can't handle targeting the GR and other weapons and the power draw on the reactor is too great to fire energy weapons and/or power the reload and recoil compensation mechanisms of ballistics while the GR is recharging). It might also be a good idea to allow players the ability to stop the GR charging by using a hot key to allow them to use other weapons instantly, but then they would have to hit the key again and finish charging the GR to fire it.

These changes would prevent two GRs from being used simultaneously (you should still chainfire them, but you'd have to fire one, stop it's charge, then fire the other, then allow both to recharge one at a time). It would also make it impossible to use the GR and other ballistics or PPCs to do huge front loaded damage to one location. At the same time it makes the GR viable as a quick fire sniper rifle again and makes it more useful against fast moving targets (for the record, I'm a light pilot so this would actually impact me negatively). You get the ability to instantly put big damage down range from long distances and up close but that is offset by the long cooldown and inability to use over weapons when it is fired and while it is recharging.

#64 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 11 May 2014 - 08:02 AM

View PostSybreed, on 11 May 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

well, thx for the suggestion, but you kinda prove something I argued in another thread. The charge mechanic forces Gauss boating. From all the things PGI did to MWO, this is the most "pro-boating" mechanic I've seen.

You can do it without, actually. I just don't see any reason to video my AC/20 + Gauss build and MGs build or my Gauss + triple AC/2 rigs.
I don't want to see that pit up against me. :P

#65 Nick Makiaveli

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 2,188 posts
  • LocationKnee deep in mechdrek

Posted 11 May 2014 - 08:02 AM

View Post3N3RGY, on 10 May 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:


were you around for the original pc mechwarrior games or did you just enter this game (honestly)



Doesn't add skill, it just removes further options to snipe in the game. If that isn't obvious, just look at the shaking of the jump jets nerfed by all the players who "enjoy" in-your -face brawling at 5kph with LBX/AC's/lasers.

Coming from CS:GO and Battlefield, I find this sad.

Probably the only users that will sympathize with me are the poptart/jump snipers from the MechWarrior 4 days.


Son, you aren't making much sense.

You can't use Gauss, so you dismiss it. You don't like brawling, so you insult anyone who does. You keep talking about other games as if they have jacksquat to do with MWO.

See here's the thing. You want sniping boosted and brawling nerfed. Why? Because that's what you are good at? I got news for you, sniping takes little skill. Learn how to lead your shots and you are good to go. Brawling takes real skill due to having to maneuver and still aim etc.

FTR, I suck at brawling, but I don't seek to nerf it. I just carry Streaks and/or an AC/20 whenever possible to deal with it.

TL;DR Learn to read and play.

#66 Abivard

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • 1,935 posts
  • LocationFree Rasalhague Republic

Posted 11 May 2014 - 08:04 AM

The only problem I have with Gauss is hit reg issues.

#67 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 11 May 2014 - 08:04 AM

View PostLostdragon, on 11 May 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:



On this, MW:LL the fan-made game... PPCs fired once every 6 seconds. The Gauss Rifle once every 7.
All ACs were auto-fire but did significantly less per shot (so while a Gauss or PPC hit really hard and two PPCs would bring you to 66.67% heat, an AC/20 might hit between 4 and 6 times before it actually did the equivalent of two PPCs; usually within about '6 seconds' of shooting), and all lasers were long beam while pulse lasers were rapid but-instant-fire.

Edited by Koniving, 11 May 2014 - 08:05 AM.


#68 Mcgral18

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • 17,987 posts
  • LocationSnow

Posted 11 May 2014 - 08:13 AM

Well, I'm going to guess this is advanced underhive behaviour.

Long weapons weapons are king. Long range FLD weapons are the best kind. They work from ~1KM to 100M. Some brawling weapons are hard capped at 270M. Jump sniping is the most effective way to play, doing the best type of damage while minimizing return fire.

If you choose to take a brawling weapon aside from the larger ACs, you'll be met with spread damage and unfavourable hitreg. Brawling could even be considered hard mode, especially if you do it in a medium.


Besides, Gauss is still a very powerful weapon with multiple combinations: 2PPC+Gauss, 2 Gauss, 2Gauss+ERPPC. All of these provide a FLD alpha of over 30, while also having similar travel speeds. It's not the weapon that's the issue here, it's just you. You could even use a single Gauss with whatever you want, but it does make it difficult when used with other weapons.

Edited by Mcgral18, 11 May 2014 - 09:07 AM.


#69 Lostdragon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,713 posts
  • LocationAlabama

Posted 11 May 2014 - 08:18 AM

View PostKoniving, on 11 May 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:


On this, MW:LL the fan-made game... PPCs fired once every 6 seconds. The Gauss Rifle once every 7.
All ACs were auto-fire but did significantly less per shot (so while a Gauss or PPC hit really hard and two PPCs would bring you to 66.67% heat, an AC/20 might hit between 4 and 6 times before it actually did the equivalent of two PPCs; usually within about '6 seconds' of shooting), and all lasers were long beam while pulse lasers were rapid but-instant-fire.


Yeah, I played it a few times and was frankly more impressed with it than MWO. I'd be interested to hear what you think about my idea for balancing the GR in MWO, you didn't really say if you thought it would work or is a good/bad idea.

#70 Ultimax

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 6,979 posts

Posted 11 May 2014 - 08:42 AM

View PostMrZakalwe, on 11 May 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

This whole thread is a joke, right? High level clan games normally feature 24 jump snipers.


While that's true, they mostly rely on AC 5/ UAC 5 for the snapshot ability.

FWIW I rarely see anyone using a single Gauss rifle. ACs are highly preferred for their better versatility.

Mostly when I see Guass, it's dual Gauss, which makes sense as linking a pair is easier than trying to fire the Gauss + other weapons at the same time.


So to recap:

> Jump Snipers moved to ACs, in fact most players stick to ACs for ballistics.
> Guass is mostly fielded as dual Gauss, for 30 FLD pinpoint.
> Macros often come up as a popular work around for minimizing the Gauss charge up, see Koniving's post.


I'd love to see the original goals behind the change, and whether those results are what was desired.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 11 May 2014 - 09:09 AM.


#71 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 11 May 2014 - 08:46 AM

View PostLostdragon, on 11 May 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

Yeah, I played it a few times and was frankly more impressed with it than MWO. I'd be interested to hear what you think about my idea for balancing the GR in MWO, you didn't really say if you thought it would work or is a good/bad idea.


It's not a bad idea and it's lore friendly. But you have a few drawbacks here.
The Current damage within 11 seconds is, under perfect conditions, 3 firings for 45 damage for one Gauss Rifle.

Compare this to an AC/20, which has 3 firings in 8 seconds for 60 damage.
Compare this to a PPC, which has 3 firings in 8 seconds for 30 damage.
Compare this to the inferior LL, which has 3 firings in 9.5 seconds for 27 damage. (3.25 second recharge begins AFTER 1 second beam for 4.25 seconds after the first firing to fire again; it's including beam times; 3 beam times gives you 3 seconds, you'd start firing the 3rd shot at 8.5 seconds but it'd last until 9.5).
Compare this to the superior Large Pulse Laser, which has 3 firings in 8.3 seconds for 31.8 damage. (Including 0.6 second beam times, the third shot would be fired at 7.7 seconds but not finish until 8.3).
Compare this to an AC/10 which has 5 firings in 10 seconds for 50 damage.

Now, finally, compare it to a Clan ER PPC, which has 3 firings in 8 seconds for 45 damage.

But wait... we're at 6 seconds per firing instead of 4.75 (charge up time + cooldown) for the Gauss Rifle. The chances for firing failures are gone, but at what cost? In 12 seconds we get 45 damage. + we cannot fire any other weapons to fire at this time (requiring boating).

It would not be a bad idea, if all lasers and autocannons were multi-shot, DPS style weapons. In fact, coupled with how I would have made the entire game it'd be a fantastic idea (as the only instant damage weapons would be PPCs, Missiles and Gauss Rifles).
But they are not done that way.
You'd have to change the entire game to make that mechanic work without completely removing the Gauss Rifle from any possible use (as the Flamer might be more useful).

Edited by Koniving, 11 May 2014 - 08:47 AM.


#72 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 11 May 2014 - 08:57 AM

(And if you're curious, Lost... Here's how I would have designed the weapon systems; although the focus is mostly on the ACs and variants, the basic premise is "TT's damage within 10 seconds + single armor mechs + 30 threshold." In this alternate little world much more based on tabletop combined with Lore (Key Word), it'd be really easy to balance weapons and even the trouble weapons, while also allowing for variants with different ideal uses and tactics. Your slower cooldown time and even a charge up mechanic to PPCs and Gauss Rifles would still be very, incredibly, useful and even welcomed in the environment described below.)

Spoiler


(Minor typos, italicizing book names). Readded links. (Fixed an incorrect shot count "5 shot" when all sequential things say "4 shot", yay typos.) Found missing link to Heavy Rifle, an obsolete weapon of extremely high caliber that is what MWO's autocannons mimic.

Edited by Koniving, 17 May 2014 - 06:54 PM.


#73 MalodorousMonkey

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 283 posts
  • Location, location, location

Posted 11 May 2014 - 09:54 AM

View Post3N3RGY, on 10 May 2014 - 11:05 PM, said:

Furthermore, do you honestly HONESTLY think hitting mechs from long range with precision alphas, is EASIER than just running up to a mech and spamming streaks or LRMs or LBX/autocannon/ballistics????


It's certainly a lot safer....

#74 Murasama

    Member

  • Pip
  • 15 posts

Posted 11 May 2014 - 10:32 AM

If they get rid of the charge mechanic then they should drastically increase cool down time, thus eliminating the gauss as an effective brawling weapon.

If they keep the charge mechanic then they should allow the the charge to be held indefinitely, but increase the chance for the gauss to explode when hit while charged.

I actually think they should look at a charge mechanic for PPC's as well. That would alter the current long rage, sniping meta we have right now.

#75 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 11 May 2014 - 10:35 AM

View PostAbisha, on 11 May 2014 - 12:05 AM, said:


nice picture, i have a soft spot for CPTL chassis.
any HD?

You mean bigger images? Hunt through here. Super HD near the end and as you get to the beginning they become smaller and smaller.

#76 MrZakalwe

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 640 posts

Posted 11 May 2014 - 10:45 AM

I think some people are trying to prove a point in this thread- gauss everywhere at the moment :D

#77 Ultimax

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 6,979 posts

Posted 11 May 2014 - 11:14 AM

View PostMurasama, on 11 May 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

If they get rid of the charge mechanic then they should drastically increase cool down time, thus eliminating the gauss as an effective brawling weapon.




It already has lower DPS than competing ballistic options for similar tonnage. (less than 2x AC5, less than 1x AC 10, less than 1x AC 20) and it breaks when you fart on it.

I'm not convinced it needs an even longer recharge time.


It's a 15 ton weapon, it's supposed to be awesome.


If anything, I'd much prefer a mild linear downward scaling of damage inside a specified minimum range.

#78 Corwin Vickers

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 631 posts
  • LocationChateau, Clan Wolf Occupation Zone

Posted 11 May 2014 - 11:21 AM

The Waaaaaambulance is on it's way!


We need 20 CCs of skill STAT!

#79 Corwin Vickers

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 631 posts
  • LocationChateau, Clan Wolf Occupation Zone

Posted 11 May 2014 - 11:37 AM

In the TT Gauss had a minimum range. It was removed in MWO as not logical.

#80 LiGhtningFF13

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Devoted
  • The Devoted
  • 1,375 posts
  • LocationBetween the Flannagan's Nebulea and the Pleiades Cluster

Posted 11 May 2014 - 11:39 AM

Well you do need skill to handle them (Gauss) now to get the most efficient damage. But it's not a weapon for everyone here now.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users