77 replies to this topic

[FlipOver]

Hi all,

I have an extremely dated computer atm (a core 2 duo at about 2.9GHz) + 2GB 800 RAM + 1GB DDR3 Graphics card... Been making some kind of magic to be able to play at around 20FPS on large maps and 15-18 on small foggy ones.

But my eyes are begging for something better (smoother).

I have looked around and tried my best to get a low-cost (around 600€) new rig.

Would like to know what you guys think about it.

MB - ASROCK B85 PRO4
CPU - Intel Core i5-4570 3.2GHz 6MB
Power - Corsair CX Series CX750M
RAM - DDR3 HyperX 8GB 1600MHz Non-ECC CL9 (1 slot)
HDD - SSD Samsung 2.5" 840 Evo 120GB

The graphics card will be purchased later in the year (probably close to Christmas to get some nice deals).

So, what do you guys think? Are there better options without spending too much? Are these components good enough to enjoy the graphics a bit more and get a smoother gameplay experience?

Cheers,
FlipOver

Edit - Forgot to mention my tower Coolermaster Silencio 452 but that wont help or harm much on the gameplay experience...

Edit 2 - Didn't mention and as I see, feels odd the GPU is missing from the list. For now I will stick with the old GeForce 210 and wait for pre-Christmas or after-Christmas time to get a better one at a lower price.

Edited by FlipOver, 20 May 2014 - 08:16 AM.

[ShinVector]

ram is cheap... get 2x 8GB to take advantage of dual channel...
Also must to pair with 64 Bit OS be it Win7 or Win8.1.

SSD is a good upgrade.. Use your old HDD for general data storage.. OS and games you are currently playing goes in the SSD.

[BladeXXL]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3378245

Your power is a little oversized:
The formula is:
idle consumption of your components idealy ~ 20% of Power Suply output (without self consumption)
full load consumption ~80% of Power Suply max. input consumption (400 W having 500 W PSU)

example:
i5-4570 10 - 84W (idle to full load)
GPU 10 - 210 W (GTX 750 = 70W / GTX 770 = 210 W)
MB 10 - 20 W (incl. RAM, (W)LAN, Sound, Mouse, Keyboard, ...)
HDD 3 - 7 W
SDD 1 - 4 W
Summs: 34 - 325 W

325 W * 1,25 = ~406 W (based on power suply self consumption of 20% having 80+)
34 W * 5 * 1,24 = ~212 W (based on idle = 20% of power suply output)

212 W is to low for the perfect world... so you'll need 400-450 W PSU (300 W if you have GTX 750)

having 750 W you will load your PSU with less the 50% in full load!

edited: mistake in formula...

Edited by BladeXXL, 16 May 2014 - 04:10 AM.

[Arctourus]

Here's a site that will help you immensely: http://www.tomshardw...eview,3107.html

They do roundups like this a few time a year....usually on other components as well. It will let you find a card in a certain price range and "tweak" your purchase based on performance.

[ShinVector]

BladeXXL, on 16 May 2014 - 03:56 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3378245

Your power is a little oversized:
The formula is:
idle consumption of your components idealy ~ 20% of Power Suply output (without self consumption)
full load consumption ~80% of Power Suply max. input consumption (400 W having 500 W PSU)

example:
i5-4570 10 - 84W (idle to full load)
GPU 10 - 210 W (GTX 750 = 70W / GTX 770 = 210 W)
MB 10 - 20 W (incl. RAM, (W)LAN, Sound, Mouse, Keyboard, ...)
HDD 3 - 7 W
SDD 1 - 4 W
Summs: 34 - 325 W

325 W * 1,25 = ~406 W (based on power suply self consumption of 20% having 80+)
34 W * 5 * 1,24 = ~212 W (based on idle = 20% of power suply output)

212 W is to low for the perfect world... so you'll need 400-450 W PSU (300 W if you have GTX 750)

having 750 W you will load your PSU with less the 50% in full load!

edited: mistake in formula...

I say keep it.. He might upgrade to a power house Video card a few years later and 750 watt should be able to support without issues.

[FlipOver]

ShinVector, on 16 May 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:

ram is cheap... get 2x 8GB to take advantage of dual channel...
Also must to pair with 64 Bit OS be it Win7 or Win8.1.

SSD is a good upgrade.. Use your old HDD for general data storage.. OS and games you are currently playing goes in the SSD.

Thanks for that input. I will get another 8GB Ram, but a bit down the road. In a few months.

Arctourus, on 16 May 2014 - 04:04 AM, said:

Here's a site that will help you immensely: http://www.tomshardw...eview,3107.html

They do roundups like this a few time a year....usually on other components as well. It will let you find a card in a certain price range and "tweak" your purchase based on performance.

Thanks mate. That's going to my bookmarks right away. Will make sure to take a look at it when I get a new graphics card.

ShinVector, on 16 May 2014 - 04:50 AM, said:

I say keep it.. He might upgrade to a power house Video card a few years later and 750 watt should be able to support without issues.

Exactly! I thought of that one because this is the bare minimum i will be buying right now. In a few months i will be getting a better graphics card and i want my power supply to hold the demand. Even if in about 2-3 years I want to upgrade it again, I know the power supply will handle it

Thanks you all so much. If you know of any better choices for the same range of money I'd love to know them.

Cheers,
FlipOver

Edited by FlipOver, 16 May 2014 - 05:04 AM.

[FlipOver]

BladeXXL, on 16 May 2014 - 03:56 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3378245

Your power is a little oversized:
The formula is:
idle consumption of your components idealy ~ 20% of Power Suply output (without self consumption)
full load consumption ~80% of Power Suply max. input consumption (400 W having 500 W PSU)

example:
i5-4570 10 - 84W (idle to full load)
GPU 10 - 210 W (GTX 750 = 70W / GTX 770 = 210 W)
MB 10 - 20 W (incl. RAM, (W)LAN, Sound, Mouse, Keyboard, ...)
HDD 3 - 7 W
SDD 1 - 4 W
Summs: 34 - 325 W

325 W * 1,25 = ~406 W (based on power suply self consumption of 20% having 80+)
34 W * 5 * 1,24 = ~212 W (based on idle = 20% of power suply output)

212 W is to low for the perfect world... so you'll need 400-450 W PSU (300 W if you have GTX 750)

having 750 W you will load your PSU with less the 50% in full load!

edited: mistake in formula...

I wanted to make a seperate post for this one.
Thank you so much for that info, man!
Had little idea how it worked, now I feel a bit more knowledgeable

[Goose]

Power supply: http://extreme.outer...culatorlite.jsp

DIMMs: Buying just one will bottleneck your memory into single channel mode, when you could have been in double.

I greatly fear how a DDR3-equiped video card will play, and not just on this new system. It might make more sense to spring for as much card as your current power supply will handle, see what changes, and plan from there.

"Might" being the operative phrase …

Have you done any tweaking? Search the forums for stuff to put into a user.cfg? Install some gages to look for bottlenecks?

[Bront]

FlipOver, on 16 May 2014 - 05:01 AM, said:

Thanks for that input. I will get another 8GB Ram, but a bit down the road. In a few months.

Don't wait. Either get a 2x4GB kit now, or a 2x8GB kit now.

When pairing memory, you want it as close to identical as possible, and kits are usually tested together.

If you're tight on money, throttling down the PSU and getting more memory should be fine (a 600W PSU is good till you get to running dual video cards, and even then it might be OK), but a higher power PSU is still more efficient under less draw, so it's never bad to have more than enough power.

Still, get the extra ram chip now. It's a pretty big deal.

[FlipOver]

Goose, on 16 May 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

Power supply: http://extreme.outer...culatorlite.jsp

DIMMs: Buying just one will bottleneck your memory into single channel mode, when you could have been in double.

I greatly fear how a DDR3-equiped video card will play, and not just on this new system. It might make more sense to spring for as much card as your current power supply will handle, see what changes, and plan from there.

"Might" being the operative phrase …

Have you done any tweaking? Search the forums for stuff to put into a user.cfg? Install some gages to look for bottlenecks?

I don't undertand your last questions, since I haven't bought any of the hardware listed above. The most I've done was a bit of research ,compare specifics, price and gather the info for a purchase in the near future (this month or so).

With my current computer I had to tweak it, got a .bat file to delete all the temp files before loading the game, user.cfg highly modified to get to have a refular 10+ fps...

Bront, on 16 May 2014 - 06:17 AM, said:

Don't wait. Either get a 2x4GB kit now, or a 2x8GB kit now.

When pairing memory, you want it as close to identical as possible, and kits are usually tested together.

If you're tight on money, throttling down the PSU and getting more memory should be fine (a 600W PSU is good till you get to running dual video cards, and even then it might be OK), but a higher power PSU is still more efficient under less draw, so it's never bad to have more than enough power.

Still, get the extra ram chip now. It's a pretty big deal.

Sold! You really made me understand how things go. I'll fork up a bit more but will be really well with a 2x8GB. Thank you!

[Maggiman]

Ram isn't that expensive, but if you are short on cash, single channel will be fine, as your gpu will bottleneck the system for the time being(I'd like to know the exact Model though DDR3 means old or low end, but who knows: ) )
I like your upgrade Plan, but keep in mind that while your system will feel a lot smoother due to ssd and a faster cpu, your gaming performance will not change that much till you have the better GPU...

Edited by Maggiman, 16 May 2014 - 07:41 AM.

[xWiredx]

If you only plan on a single GPU, you'll never need that 750W PSU. 550W-650W will be the "I might get a bigger one down the road" range.

A 4GBx2 RAM kit will probably serve you better for the time being. It'll squeeze a bit more performance out than 8GBx1, and there is very little reason for 16GB on a DDR3 platform right now unless you massively multitask while gaming. Based on the fact that you're using such a dated system now, I doubt that is the case.

You could spur for a temporary GPU upgrade, too. A GTX 750 won't set you back a ton more and will net you a better experience.

[FlipOver]

Maggiman, on 16 May 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

Ram isn't that expensive, but if you are short on cash, single channel will be fine, as your gpu will bottleneck the system for the time being(I'd like to know the exact Model though DDR3 means old or low end, but who knows: ) )
I like your upgrade Plan, but keep in mind that while your systems will feel a lot smoother due to ssd and a faster cup, your gaming performance will not change that much till you have the better GPU..

I believe you want this info: I'll get the 1600MHz Frequency.
It's close to 95€ each one, for a computer that's aimed not to get past 600€ it's 1/6 of its total max price. So It's kind of a tight spot I'm in, but I think I will be doing the 2x8GB.

Since the MO has 4 memory slots, I could just go for 2x4GB with the same specs. Thing is, I really don't know if I should do that or just jump towards the 2x8GB.

About the GPU, you are right and that's why I will be going to get a really good one around Christmas, so I can avoid spending too much right now, and I believe I can get 2 of them a bit cheaper than I would right now.

xWiredx, on 16 May 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

If you only plan on a single GPU, you'll never need that 750W PSU. 550W-650W will be the "I might get a bigger one down the road" range.

A 4GBx2 RAM kit will probably serve you better for the time being. It'll squeeze a bit more performance out than 8GBx1, and there is very little reason for 16GB on a DDR3 platform right now unless you massively multitask while gaming. Based on the fact that you're using such a dated system now, I doubt that is the case.

You could spur for a temporary GPU upgrade, too. A GTX 750 won't set you back a ton more and will net you a better experience.

It will depend on the price at the time, but I do believe I will be able to get 2 GPUs if my company pays up what they owe me until then

And I was really unsure if I should get 2x4GB or 2x8GB, depends on price, actual system requirements now and in the next 3-4 years...

About multitasking on my current computer, well, can't say I do a lot of it. All I can do is have a TV screen on a corner, while using the web-browser while playing a simple game (Trackmania Forever), while downloading a few things.
That's the most I do... and it's no small feat to be able to do it with my current piece of junk... lol

[Woopass]

Going to let you know right now, even with DX11 now, i have played this game on different kinds of computers, one of them being REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY high end. I wouldnt spend to much money on a high end to try to get max fps. Because right now you wont. If you want to get around 70 fps then you will need to keep it in DX9 and no PSAA. I run the game on 780 TI and R9 290X and lucky if i get 30-40 frames, usually get about 25. just wanna let you know before you go spending some big bucks on a video card that isnt gonna be able to get max performance out of this game and vise versa. other than that good luck on your new build!

[FlipOver]

Woopass, on 16 May 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

Going to let you know right now, even with DX11 now, i have played this game on different kinds of computers, one of them being REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY high end. I wouldnt spend to much money on a high end to try to get max fps. Because right now you wont. If you want to get around 70 fps then you will need to keep it in DX9 and no PSAA. I run the game on 780 TI and R9 290X and lucky if i get 30-40 frames, usually get about 25. just wanna let you know before you go spending some big bucks on a video card that isnt gonna be able to get max performance out of this game and vise versa. other than that good luck on your new build!

Thanks man.
For what I've learned, the games engine uses a lot of the CPU and should use more of the GPU than actually does.
For that reason I am not really worried to get a graphics card right now. I'll do that a bit later. For the time being just want a rig that's not too expensive, works good, has a good progression margin and will get me to a more steady 25-30fps on MWO.

[Maggiman]

I would prefer 2x8 over 4x4 for various reasons (Though none of them are thaaat important)
As for the info: I'm sorry, but I meant the type of your
GPU
Double GPUs are not worth the trouble in my opinion unless you want to play at Resolutions far greater than 1080p...And yes MWOs performance scales badly and is shoddy even on good rigs.But I presume you want to play other games too =)

[xWiredx]

Maggiman, on 16 May 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

I would prefer 2x8 over 4x4 for various reasons (Though none of them are thaaat important)
As for the info: I'm sorry, but I meant the type of your
GPU
Double GPUs are not worth the trouble in my opinion unless you want to play at Resolutions far greater than 1080p...And yes MWOs performance scales badly and is shoddy even on good rigs.But I presume you want to play other games too =)

Seconded. At 1080p, crossfire/sli isn't particularly necessary. For almost all games, at 1080p, a single, powerful GPU is usually preferred. MWO doesn't yet officially support crossfire/sli, either, though it is possible to get it working to some degree. Either way, you might want to consider a GPU with 3-4GB of VRAM, though, instead of one with 2GB. For a single GPU, my PSU recommendation stands. For dual GPUs, you might want to go closer to 850W depending on the GPUs you select, not just for overall power draw but also in consideration for the amps they require.

[FlipOver]

@ Maggiman:
The GPU is a GeForce 210. Old, not good, but enough for me until now.
And thank you so much about the dual GPU info.

xWiredx, on 16 May 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

Seconded. At 1080p, crossfire/sli isn't particularly necessary. For almost all games, at 1080p, a single, powerful GPU is usually preferred. MWO doesn't yet officially support crossfire/sli, either, though it is possible to get it working to some degree. Either way, you might want to consider a GPU with 3-4GB of VRAM, though, instead of one with 2GB. For a single GPU, my PSU recommendation stands. For dual GPUs, you might want to go closer to 850W depending on the GPUs you select, not just for overall power draw but also in consideration for the amps they require.

So I take it will be a smarter choice to get one 3-4GB VRAM GPU versus 2 2GB ones or even 2 1GB DDR5?
I will have to have all that into account but only a few months after buying the whole computer.

Thank you both!

[Maggiman]

Jeah a 210 will hold you back until you get that beefy new one =)
More than 2GB Vram is wasted on current games at 1080p(Even 1 is often enough) buuuuut: GPU compute usage is steadily increasing, especially with the new consoles made with it in mind! (8GB shared between cpu and gpu) so going for 3 or 4 GB VRam is the safe way!
And yes, 1 powerfull GPU is the smart thing for your rig

[BARBAR0SSA]

Just tossing this out there, Tek Syndicate did benchmarks while streaming game footage and the AMD FX 8350 walked all over the 2 intel cpus they had it against. So depends what you want to do as well, if you're thinking of streaming might be worth checking out.