79 replies to this topic

[WVAnonymous]

And having been part of semi-random 2 to 4-man teams recently where I had been playing off-chat for months, and just switched to occasional voice-chat, the voice-chat isn't very helpful.

If you're getting steamrolled, saying "we're getting herded into a bad position" is informative, but does not lead to recovery and victory. "Alpha has a red CT" is visible to anyone who actually has Alpha targeted, etc.

Maybe it's more helpful for 12-man teams who practice together 3 nights/week, but I suspect that the practice is more important than the voice comms.

[n r g]

Modo44, on 20 May 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

3N3RGY, you are having "too good to play solo" syndrome. MWO's matchmaker really does not know what to do with very high or very low Elo at the moment. It is better closer to the average skill level. As someone who only learned many skills in MWO, I was in the middle for a long time, having a better time in general.

There's a lot of new players to MWO who I think are good and I respect. Though, they are a handful of players (casual) that for some reason, drop into an unmatched/uneven 12v12 pug and kill you, and then think they are Gods gift to the world.

Any CS:GO or other FPS player knows how laughable that is.

Anyway, honestly, the last few nights I've had a lance of my own CSJ pre-mades, and I will not lie, we've won 20+ straight with only 1 or 2 losses after. We can go 30+ wins if we are online all night. The only times we lose if they is more pre-mades on the opposing team. 99% of the time, I recognize the pre-mades because they are players I know personally from CSJ alpha galaxy, SJ, or the Lords.

So basically, I'm feeling it's unbalanced and I'm even admitting this because most of the times we roll teams when we have a pre-made (and competent team who atleast follows us). I think it's unfair even though I am winning, I don't think it's right that we win 11-1 or 12-0 for so many matches, it probably discourages new players from playing this game.

I sure know I hate it when I put up 500+ dmg and lose 12-0 and see my team did about 0-100. But in the end I suppose, PUGs matches are meaningless - competitive/league matches/scrims will be the standard when community warfare rolls around and amen for that.

Edited by E N E R G Y, 06 June 2014 - 02:35 PM.

[KrataLightblade]

I roll with two friends. That means we typically have a pug for a lancemate.

Not that long ago, my two friends and I capped the enemy base in three lights on Tourmaline. Our pug friend followed us and fell riht into th plan, supported us, and helped us secure victory. Match ended 7-0 in the enemy favor but we won to cap.

Same thing happened not so long ago on Crimson, except in assaults. We decided to go completely batshit insane, and try something new, so when the scouts reported (And yep, it was two pugs scouting the enemy and report) that th saddle was clear, we took our assault lance and capped the base. By the time the enemy realized what was happening, we'd already blown through their turrets and were four mechs on their base. They rerouted to attack us but were facing two fresh assaults an two heavies.

Yes, both times we were trying something that would probably fail. And we HAVE failed at replicating it a few times. But both successes came as a result of communicating outside our VOIP. And both victories pissed the enemy off something fierce.

Playing with pugs is as simple as communicating and hoping at least a couple of guys will talk back. If so, you have a team. If not... go down fighting (or, maybe even win!), be a credit to your faction and better luck next time.

[Bigbacon]

pre-mades have one MAJOR advantage most of the time, live communication. That plays a HUGE part because you don't have to stop and type and try to tell people what is going on.

Not that skill isn't a part or just knowing what your buddies are doing but being able to say attack X move Y and coordinate gives you the best advantage possible.

PUGs just don't have that communication aspect built into the game.

again, maybe instead of just putting the puggers down, when you premade guys are in game with us you let us know and try to get others to fight along side of you instead of buggering off on your own elitist way and then ***** when the puggies lose for you.

you'd be amazed at how many pre-mades just go do their own thing and not even attempt to help or stick with the rest of the group.

[The Great Unwashed]

I play as a PUG a lot and I frequently get rolled. It is very frustrating when you have very good teams against you and your own team scatters in each and any direction. What is even worse is starting in team C with your unmastered slow-as-heck assault trying to group up with Alpha Lance who run off with the funny message "group up" and you are chasing the lead team for the rest of the match. A few nights ago I spent nearly the entire match running circles around the Caustic Valley Mountain seeing the backs of my team until KaffeeAngst saw mine... And ENERGY killed me last night IIRC so all great fun. My ELO is high enough to be shot at by good players

I don't mind getting killed by players of good teams as that does stimulate me to do better, but I feel my learning curve is shelving to zero when PUGGING...

Strike that, loosing badly does teach me what mistakes I made in my decisions... even when totally outclassed there are always many small points and errors in my own gameplay to analyze. I think I got much better at interpreting movement of my own team and learned to run with them (sometimes).

I enjoyed the tournament as then you at least have the advantage of fighting players all better than I am but not in a lance using TS...

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 10 June 2014 - 07:16 AM.

[vortmax]

I'm not part of a dedicated unit, so I often wind up either with my son and a friend, or with a semi-PUG pre-made of people on NGNG, FWL, or Comstar TS servers (so, a PUG-PM).

Whenever we drop on Skirmish or Assault, I wait to see where the other groups are moving. If they are moving away, I direct our group to go with them. If the other groups are coming to us, we assume a leadership position and expect they'll follow.

Often, I try to position the other groups where I want initial contact to take place, then direct our group to flank if the opportunity presents itself. This usually results with the enemy in a standoff with the PUGs while we come around behind and start picking off folks. If the other team turns to engage, I call "PUSH NOW" and, if the PUGs comply, they usually roll over the backs of the other team. If the other team does not turn to engage, we keep picking folks off until we either die or have a numbers advantage. If the PUGs don't push and the other team does turn to engage, we usually die horribly and the game is lost.

Then there are PUGs who go off on their own (a recon mech, a DDC who thinks ECM makes him invulnerable, etc). Usually, we lose those games.

And then there are opposing teams that use similar tactics against us, like last night when one team had it's snipers distract us while their brawlers flanked. Just had to give kudos to them for an excellent move and take my AC20s to the face.

To be called a PUG member shouldn't be disparaging. This game has a pretty big learning curve. Help those who appear to need it and have fun.

[RedPandaPrince]

All I have to say is in my experience of trying to order pugs is that it is about as easy as herding cats.

[Void Angel]

WVAnonymous, on 06 June 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

And having been part of semi-random 2 to 4-man teams recently where I had been playing off-chat for months, and just switched to occasional voice-chat, the voice-chat isn't very helpful.

If you're getting steamrolled, saying "we're getting herded into a bad position" is informative, but does not lead to recovery and victory. "Alpha has a red CT" is visible to anyone who actually has Alpha targeted, etc.

Maybe it's more helpful for 12-man teams who practice together 3 nights/week, but I suspect that the practice is more important than the voice comms.

In order for voice communication to be effective, you have to have someone who knows how to command. Anyone can see their own situation, but it takes a grasp of the overall battle to make effective use of a lance. The practice of dedicated teams is indeed a huge advantage - but lance (and company) level leadership is a learned skill separate from individual combat piloting.

GreedyTacoTheif, on 10 June 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

All I have to say is in my experience of trying to order pugs is that it is about as easy as herding cats.

No, it is exactly as easy as herding cats. =)

[Varik Ronain]

HimseIf, on 18 May 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Pugs can be ok, even if they type in 3 different languages. VOIP is a bit over rated. Besides, nobody wants to hear ppl whining.

Not overrated in the least in a premade. Instant communication, calling targets to focus fire and the nifty ability to know when you are narced instantly. Sure VOIP will not fix everything but it would be a step in the right direction. A team game should focus on tools to help with teamwork... crazy I know.


Example: UAV is up guys the enemy ecm is a ddc. Everyone focus delta. The rest of the lance confirms letting you know that delta is going to be hating life very soon as LRMs, art and all manner of weapons focus in on him; and the second he is down the next most urgent target is called out immediately. Move to hit bravo! He is a boom jager! or whatever the situation calls for.

It is also handy when you need help. Can someone please give me a hand with foxtrot he is tearing me apart!

Edited by Varik Ronain, 11 June 2014 - 10:07 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Bigbacon, on 10 June 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

pre-mades have one MAJOR advantage most of the time, live communication. That plays a HUGE part because you don't have to stop and type and try to tell people what is going on.

Not that skill isn't a part or just knowing what your buddies are doing but being able to say attack X move Y and coordinate gives you the best advantage possible.

PUGs just don't have that communication aspect built into the game.

again, maybe instead of just putting the puggers down, when you premade guys are in game with us you let us know and try to get others to fight along side of you instead of buggering off on your own elitist way and then ***** when the puggies lose for you.

you'd be amazed at how many pre-mades just go do their own thing and not even attempt to help or stick with the rest of the group.

Look, enough of the defensive tone ok?
YOU'D be amazed at just how many, depressing, sickening times I've desperately tried to get pugs to listen......only to be ignored utterly.It swings both ways matey, but harder in one direction.
But as for the comms I do agree, but here I think you and I will fall out. My suggestion would be to join a casual unit, download TS and profit as at this time, it's the best option to get co-ordinated play. You could even hop our unit's TS server if you wanted?
Up to you.

[jper4]

my favorite PUG experiences are the matches where our side gets rolled then once defeat is certain there's always one person who announces "worst team ever." "my team is a bunch of idiots." etc. which mind you is the first communication the person has made the entire match. pardon the rest of us for not going along with your undoubtedly perfect plan of victory that would have won us the day. oh wait a sec you never said anything did you? cap'n hindsight FTW!

[Screech]

To those that matter I don't believe they do.

[andrewkhlim]

Tanar, on 14 June 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

my favorite PUG experiences are the matches where our side gets rolled then once defeat is certain there's always one person who announces "worst team ever." "my team is a bunch of idiots." etc. which mind you is the first communication the person has made the entire match. pardon the rest of us for not going along with your undoubtedly perfect plan of victory that would have won us the day. oh wait a sec you never said anything did you? cap'n hindsight FTW!

Just had one of those games. The "best" player on the team was first to die, first to complain for the rest of the match, last to leave.

I play pugs groups knowing I will not win all the time; I am definitely not be the best player on the team, and even when the team looks like it's doing something silly I know it's a lack of pug cohesion and communication (I swear it happens sometimes).

Is it that hard for the kids to comprehend these days?

On the topic of voip: at the chance of some troll yelling abuse (or music) I would probably have it switched off anyway.

[DEZIBAHN]

If I'm understanding the definitions right, I'm pretty much an exclusive PUG. I just join matches, who I get is who I get, and I do what I can to help the team. I comment on flanking units, I do my best to cover teammates, and if I end up totally disarmed, I run around like a cat on fire to distract the opposition (which usually doesn't work for too long, damn my Hunchback's paper-mache armor!).

Yeah, I've seen some pretty dumb moves, I've watched Ravens plow off alone in an attempt to be a hero and single-handedly capture the base. I've seen everybody leave an Atlas in the dust, only to have to turn around and make a mad dash back when he gets swamped by lights.

I've also seen really good teamwork, with deceased PUGs keeping tabs on the game, calling out enemy positions they quickly gleaned from someone else's view, or helping to call attention to another player who's in trouble. As soon as I'm taken out, I (usually) become one of the most vocal (chat-wise) players on my team. Every little bit helps.

I think the most important thing to remember is that this is a GAME. The entire purpose is to have fun and enjoy yourself. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. The key is to do both with grace. When you start raging at the game, or even worse, at your team, it's time to step back and do something else for a while.

[Podex]

I've seen some horrible PUG matches, but I've also seen matches where almost defeated teams claw their way to a win.

I think that's what I love about them. Winning all the time, every time, sucks. I want to feel good for winning, not feel bad for losing. In PUG matches there is no pressure to be the best of the best and you can sit back and help the new guy be the hero. You can lose, and that's ok -- no dishonored group, no pressure, no lasting disappointment.

Yes, boneheaded moves will be made by all. Embrace it, learn from it, and teach others ways to avoid it.

[Mark of Caine]

Tanar, on 14 June 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

my favorite PUG experiences are the matches where our side gets rolled then once defeat is certain there's always one person who announces "worst team ever." "my team is a bunch of idiots." etc. which mind you is the first communication the person has made the entire match. pardon the rest of us for not going along with your undoubtedly perfect plan of victory that would have won us the day. oh wait a sec you never said anything did you? cap'n hindsight FTW!

I see that sometimes in chat, and my response is: "Well you are also part of the so-called 'fail' team. Did you take it upon yourself to try to lead the team?" - dead silence

Yeah, thought so.

I am by no means the best player on any team I drop with. In fact, on a scale of 100, whereby 100 is the elite of the elites, I'd say my gaming skills are around 40 or so. I still make stupid moves from time to time, but I have also noticed I don't do them as often as I used to, like rushing in head first with a brawler mech at 600m out from the enemy. I'm practicing keeping on my assault's flank and keeping my speed in pace with his/hers. Even though we don't have any comms, at least I'm there to help focus fire whatever the assault is shooting at.

And then, sometimes, I'm pacing an Atlas, and he comes to a dead stop and ONLY fires loads of LRMs. /double facepalm

Not only is he not doing much in the fight, but because I'm now in the back line, I'm also out of the fight too. *sigh*

Please folks, don't be that Atlas.

[DEZIBAHN]

Caine2112, on 20 June 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

...sometimes, I'm pacing an Atlas, and he comes to a dead stop and ONLY fires loads of LRMs...

W... why? Not like the Atlas is so speedy he'll close the range before he can get half his magazines fired...

[Mark of Caine]

DEZIBAHN, on 20 June 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

W... why? Not like the Atlas is so speedy he'll close the range before he can get half his magazines fired...

I was referring to pure LRM boat Atlases.

I almost always expect an Atlas to mount 1 LRM system for closing the gap, as you mentioned.

[Sandtiger]

Todd Lightbringer, on 18 May 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

Last few games I've been have been 1-12, or 0-12. It's been a really great experience overall. Love getting rolled by the meta trash builds that have taken over this great game.

Meta Trash builds? Are you referring to imaginative players who utilize their mechs well? You had better clarify, because you have just roused the fighting blood of my ancestors.

[Sandtiger]

LastPaladin, on 23 May 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

Haha, that is fun. I have found better success if I don't actually make suggestions, but just ask questions, like:

"Should we really be splitting up like this?"

or

"Why are you charging Kappa alone when there are two enemy lances headed there?"

People seem to respond better because I'm not "telling them what to do", just asking questions.

Well Spoken! I've been told that when I pay for their mechs, they will pilot them like I want ~grins. It's kind of hard to argue with that logic.