69 replies to this topic

[Xoxim SC]

They may not follow the tabletop values, since you're technically not purchasing an engine like you normally would for an inner sphere mech. Since the engines are fixed on clan mechs, the prices may be roughly the same as the inner sphere mechs, but who knows.

[Commander Kobold]

also as some mild form of balancing it seems like they're planning on making clan omnis lose their lower arm actuators if you put Gauss a PPC or any autocannon in them.

source, command chair post.

on topic, they'll probably have a price range similar to the closest IS counterpart

Edited by Omni 13, 26 May 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[Gyrok]

Nathan K, on 26 May 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

Not if they give it double the reload time + half the ammo.

I doubt that would ever happen, look at how they balanced IS against itself...they are already going to burst damage for autocannons, so I see no reason they would nerf ammunition...(in fact I suspect it might get a buff if they count 1 round per burst as 1 round of ammo)

Todd Lightbringer, on 26 May 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

They may not follow the tabletop values, since you're technically not purchasing an engine like you normally would for an inner sphere mech. Since the engines are fixed on clan mechs, the prices may be roughly the same as the inner sphere mechs, but who knows.

But clan engines will be more expensive because they have fewer crit slots in the torsos...meaning the price will go back up. I am telling you, do not expect to see a Timber Wolf for cbills under 20 mil.

[Gremlich Johns]

Whatever their pricing model, PGI will make the players pay dearly for Clan tech. IMHO, a Timberwolf should not cost much more that a fully kitted out Atlas.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 26 May 2014 - 02:22 PM.

[101011]

Omni 13, on 26 May 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

also as some mild form of balancing it seems like they're planning on making clan omnis lose their lower arm actuators if you put Gauss a PPC or any autocannon in them.

source, command chair post.

on topic, they'll probably have a price range similar to the closest IS counterpart

That is how it worked in TT, and honestly, it allows you to cram more fun stuff into the arms. It is one of the reasons the Dire Wolf will actually be able to fit a Guass and 2 ERPPC's into one arm for max pinpoint. (2+6+2+2).

[Xoxim SC]

Gyrok, on 26 May 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

But clan engines will be more expensive because they have fewer crit slots in the torsos...meaning the price will go back up. I am telling you, do not expect to see a Timber Wolf for cbills under 20 mil.

As I stated earlier, you can't remove the engine from the mech, therefore it nulls out the necessity of having outrageously expensive mechs. Everything dealing with the center torso of your clan mech stays intact.

[Smegmw]

Gremlich Johns, on 26 May 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

Whatever their pricing model, PGI will make the players pay dearly for Clan tech. IMHO, a Timberwolf should not cost much more that a fully kitted out Atlas.

Russ, Bryan and Paul have stated multiple times that they do not want to create an arms race in MWO. Conclusion you aren't getting omni mechs and you aren't getting clan tech, "clan mechs" will not be priced any differently than IS mechs or there is an arms race pure and simple and they do not want that.

If a Hunchback cannot face off against a Nova and win every other matchup as well as be priced the same than Russ, Bryan and Paul have failed in not creating an arms race.

[Gyrok]

Smegmw, on 26 May 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

Russ, Bryan and Paul have stated multiple times that they do not want to create an arms race in MWO. Conclusion you aren't getting omni mechs and you aren't getting clan tech, "clan mechs" will not be priced any differently than IS mechs or there is an arms race pure and simple and they do not want that.

If a Hunchback cannot face off against a Nova and win every other matchup as well as be priced the same than Russ, Bryan and Paul have failed in not creating an arms race.

Let us figure costs for one moment shall we?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d67cf008a77e7bc

That banshee can barely hold a few ERPPCs and LBX with XL375 and still get endo and ferro on there...but look at cost...19.5 mil cbills. You think a Timber Wolf with equivalent weaponry and a premium for being a clan chassis will not break 20 mil? Naivete abounds here...

Additionally, they have basically all but admitted that clans will likely be OP. Otherwise they would not have given the 10 vs 12 any lip service at all...

The arms race is coming...

Edited by Gyrok, 26 May 2014 - 04:11 PM.

[101011]

Smegmw, on 26 May 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

If a Hunchback cannot face off against a Nova and win every other matchup as well as be priced the same than Russ, Bryan and Paul have failed in not creating an arms race.

Agreed. A 'Mech produced in 2572 should be equal to a top-of-the-line 'Mech produced in 2870...oh. Wait. That does not make any sense at all.

[mad kat]

So if you consider yourself a clanner like i do, i will have to sell the vast majority of my modest 16 mechs to buy the one i really do want.

While i suppose paying more for superior tech is not unreasonable we have already established that it takes an age to grind up for the IS mechs. Your gonna have no choice to make that expensive clan mech work for you. Which is a bit of a risk spending that much time on a mech and will make the game ultimately tedious and dull when everyone else in the drop will be fielding the same mechs for the same reason.

For those of us that can't spend 3 hours a day on a computer game but still love their clan tech the game is gonna become very biased and very dull very quickly if their asking twice the price of an atlas for one timber wolf.

[CyclonerM]

mad kat, on 27 May 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

clanner Clansman

Fixed

Back on topic now!

[Gyrok]

mad kat, on 27 May 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

So if you consider yourself a clanner like i do, i will have to sell the vast majority of my modest 16 mechs to buy the one i really do want.

While i suppose paying more for superior tech is not unreasonable we have already established that it takes an age to grind up for the IS mechs. Your gonna have no choice to make that expensive clan mech work for you. Which is a bit of a risk spending that much time on a mech and will make the game ultimately tedious and dull when everyone else in the drop will be fielding the same mechs for the same reason.

For those of us that can't spend 3 hours a day on a computer game but still love their clan tech the game is gonna become very biased and very dull very quickly if their asking twice the price of an atlas for one timber wolf.

By the time you buy something like an Atlas, put an XL engine in it, then add Ferro/Endo, and buy the weapons you want...you are into it for 20 mil cbills if you put all the clan tech you are getting in one mech onto it. (I realize the Atlas should not have an XL engine, however for comparison purposes suppose it would have a Clan XL)

Take any mech you buy and add 1.5 mil cbills as a "mech tax" for DHS, then add your various endo/ferro costs, and a fully kitted out Atlas will cost about what a Timber Wolf that comes kitted out costs.

Edited by Gyrok, 27 May 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[S3dition]

I don't see how people can keep saying that clan mechs will be cheap. Gyrok is fully correct in what he is saying.

Take any mech

1) Add inferior double heatsinks for 1.5 mil
2) Add inferior FF/Endo for ~1 mil
3) Boat inferior ER and Pulse medium/large lasers

Add up the cost. This is for INFERIOR parts. There is no way to say the are "balancing clan double heat sinks"

They are better. Period. Fixing a minimum amount is NOT balance. IS has to take a minimum amount too. Oh, wait, you mean I have to take more heat sinks that take less space? Twist my arm...

In the end, I bet you'll still have more weight/space, even with those extra heat sinks because they're only 2 slots.

Now, sure you can try to balance weapons by reducing their range to be in line with IS, and nerfing their damage. But PGI already said they would have the correct weapon load out. The ONLY way to do that is to keep the same slot/tonnage advantage, which means more weapons overall. So no matter what, they're still better.

Now why on earth would PGI sell them for the same amount of cbills/mc as an inferior mech?

[VanillaG]

S3dition, on 27 May 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

I don't see how people can keep saying that clan mechs will be cheap. Gyrok is fully correct in what he is saying.

Take any mech

1) Add inferior double heatsinks for 1.5 mil
2) Add inferior FF/Endo for ~1 mil
3) Boat inferior ER and Pulse medium/large lasers

Add up the cost. This is for INFERIOR parts. There is no way to say the are "balancing clan double heat sinks"

They are better. Period. Fixing a minimum amount is NOT balance. IS has to take a minimum amount too. Oh, wait, you mean I have to take more heat sinks that take less space? Twist my arm...

In the end, I bet you'll still have more weight/space, even with those extra heat sinks because they're only 2 slots.

Now, sure you can try to balance weapons by reducing their range to be in line with IS, and nerfing their damage. But PGI already said they would have the correct weapon load out. The ONLY way to do that is to keep the same slot/tonnage advantage, which means more weapons overall. So no matter what, they're still better.

Now why on earth would PGI sell them for the same amount of cbills/mc as an inferior mech?

I don't think anyone is saying that they will be cheap, just that they will cost less than what is listed on Sarna and be on par with what a fully decked out IS mech with Star League era weapons and equipment. TT did not have different costs for weapons or equipment for IS or Clans. Since we cannot use Clan weapons on IS mechs and vice versa, I personally don't see a need to have them cost more given the limitations that omnimechs come with. They should cost the same since they are not interchangeable.

[S3dition]

VanillaG, on 27 May 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

I don't think anyone is saying that they will be cheap, just that they will cost less than what is listed on Sarna and be on par with what a fully decked out IS mech with Star League era weapons and equipment. TT did not have different costs for weapons or equipment for IS or Clans. Since we cannot use Clan weapons on IS mechs and vice versa, I personally don't see a need to have them cost more given the limitations that omnimechs come with. They should cost the same since they are not interchangeable.

Weapons almost universally cost the same (according to Sarna). But people here WERE saying things like clan mechs costing the same as IS mechs or "low teens" for a timberwolf. There is no way it would go for that if the IS equiv is more expensive.

[VanillaG]

S3dition, on 27 May 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

Weapons almost universally cost the same (according to Sarna). But people here WERE saying things like clan mechs costing the same as IS mechs or "low teens" for a timberwolf. There is no way it would go for that if the IS equiv is more expensive.

You can look at my earlier post in this thread about to get a rough idea on how to figure out the base chassis (minus weapons) should cost. A bare chassis Timberwolf should cost 15-16 million before adding any weapons to it.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Clan mechs will be expensive as hell, like they are now, pre ordering them....but they wont be worth the money, fake or real...

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

K Atlas was supposed to costs 22 million, its only 13 million in game i can't imagine the devs overly pricing clan chassis.

[mad kat]

I seem to remember from MW2,3&4 that the clan mechs biggest problem's were heat from their ER weapons while an IS equivalent mech packed less punch but at the trade-off of lower heat.

While technically this is a balancing topic it gives each mech unique characteristics and as a result should have them priced give or take equally. Clan tech maybe superior but fixed engines (or so i've heard) and hotter weapons may negate any reason to pay more for one against tougher xl engines, higher firepower and consequently heat load and better hard points.

But as we all know PGI are rather greedy (understatement of the year) and judging by the current prices of clan tech packages i wouldn't be surprised if the clan's turned out to be a white elephant. But wouldn't it just piss people off who've paid excess in advance for the clan machines just for the 'privilege'. I for one would be mighty pissed off but only have myself to blame if i paid £200 for some clan mechs now only for them to be worth £120 when they're eventually released (to the more shrewd and IMO sensible public).

Back to the Cbills argument i for one can see no logical reason for them to make clan tech so expensive despite the current $ prices giving cause for concern. Arms race they will have and only those who are willing and have been stomping around in hero's with active premium time and more importantly the spare time to spend hours on end a day on a computer game are gonna be able to afford to buy and run them.

Edited by mad kat, 02 June 2014 - 12:35 AM.

[Kmieciu]

101011, on 26 May 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

'Mechs, maybe. Weapons, no. Clan LBX-20 is far superior to the IS AC/20, hands down.

Why? Do you even know the in game stats for cLBX-20.

Edited by Kmieciu, 02 June 2014 - 03:19 AM.