32 replies to this topic

[Strum Wealh]

Praetor Knight, on 27 May 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

As the code for SRMs get worked on, why not use the LB 10-X AC code in the mean time?

Drop the number of pellets to match the SRM launchers, adjust damage and speed and let us try them out this way for a few days or weeks.

I really don't care about splash damage or explosion animations as long as SRMs can be consistent in dealing damage.

Gremlich Johns, on 27 May 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

Wanna really see if SRM hit-reg is fixed?

Turn them into Inferno SRMs for a few days.

The tears will either flow or we'll all go "Hey, fix SRM hit registration"

Alternatively, they could apply the LRM code to the SRMs and make them into the guided, lock-on weapons they were supposed to be from the get-go?

Then, once the ammo-switching code for the Clan LB-X ACs is perfected, they can reintroduce the current "Dead-Fire" Missile implementation as an alternate ammunition type, along with introducing Inferno rounds, Heat-Seeking Missiles, Listen-Kill Missiles (which could be made to function like anti-radiation missiles for MWO gameplay purposes) and a few others.

[Mcgral18]

Strum Wealh, on 27 May 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

Alternatively, they could apply the LRM code to the SRMs and make them into the guided, lock-on weapons they were supposed to be from the get-go?

Then, once the ammo-switching code for the Clan LB-X ACs is perfected, they can reintroduce the current "Dead-Fire" Missile implementation as an alternate ammunition type, along with introducing Inferno rounds, Heat-Seeking Missiles, Listen-Kill Missiles (which could be made to function like anti-radiation missiles for MWO gameplay purposes) and a few others.

And if PGI doesn't want to do any of that, just increase damage to 3 and say they are deadfire. After fixing hitreg.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 27 May 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

Alternatively, they could apply the LRM code to the SRMs and make them into the guided, lock-on weapons they were supposed to be from the get-go?

Then, once the ammo-switching code for the Clan LB-X ACs is perfected, they can reintroduce the current "Dead-Fire" Missile implementation as an alternate ammunition type, along with introducing Inferno rounds, Heat-Seeking Missiles, Listen-Kill Missiles (which could be made to function like anti-radiation missiles for MWO gameplay purposes) and a few others.

right after Paul listens to some reasonable ideas on fixing jumpsniping.

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

right after Paul listens to some reasonable ideas on fixing jumpsniping.

Honestly, it's looking like the best way for Paul to go about that is making the shortrange weapons not useless.

Short of mechanic changes, it's the easiest and most effective way.

[Davers]

Two weapons I will not use: Flamers and SRMs.

[Deathlike]

Davers, on 27 May 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

Two weapons I will not use: Flamers and SRMs.

The latter is a secret to everyone.

The former powers your bacon vats.

You shouldn't speak of such treachery evah!

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 27 May 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

Honestly, it's looking like the best way for Paul to go about that is making the shortrange weapons not useless.

Short of mechanic changes, it's the easiest and most effective way.

how about this one? (and yeah, I want you honest appraisal)

Take an already existing mechanic to fix it.

We have Cockpit/Reticle Shake on the "Up-Jump". What is so hard about extending that Shake into the first .3-1.0 second of the "Down-Jump"?

Sympathetic vibrations don't end the moment the thrust does. Ain't how physics work. What it does though, is force the Jumper to Jump Higher, thus exposing more of their mech, for a longer time, to be able to have that same shot window as before. This instantly impact the Risk/Reward Ratio, and makes it much less the no-brainer tactic it currently is, while also increasing the required skill curve to use it effectively.

Thus, the tactic remains viable, but it would largely disappear in lower Elo Tiers, and even in upper Elos, the R/Rr is not so strong as to make it the mandatory Meta it is right now.

And if it were combined with the proposal to correctly scale leg damage to mass, non JJ cushioned landings? This would cause them to actually mount full JJs (or close to) to have enough thrust to get the shot AND land without breaking their legs. Not to mention the braking thrust would increase the shot window against them, potentially, also.


Thoughts?

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

how about this one? (and yeah, I want you honest appraisal)

Take an already existing mechanic to fix it.

We have Cockpit/Reticle Shake on the "Up-Jump". What is so hard about extending that Shake into the first .3-1.0 second of the "Down-Jump"?

Sympathetic vibrations don't end the moment the thrust does. Ain't how physics work. What it does though, is force the Jumper to Jump Higher, thus exposing more of their mech, for a longer time, to be able to have that same shot window as before. This instantly impact the Risk/Reward Ratio, and makes it much less the no-brainer tactic it currently is, while also increasing the required skill curve to use it effectively.

Thus, the tactic remains viable, but it would largely disappear in lower Elo Tiers, and even in upper Elos, the R/Rr is not so strong as to make it the mandatory Meta it is right now.

And if it were combined with the proposal to correctly scale leg damage to mass, non JJ cushioned landings? This would cause them to actually mount full JJs (or close to) to have enough thrust to get the shot AND land without breaking their legs. Not to mention the braking thrust would increase the shot window against them, potentially, also.


Thoughts?

I fully support the leg damage when falling.

The shake is a good start, and very easy to implement, although I'm not sure if it would go far enough.


I'm partial to a removal of convergence when jumping, all weapons fire parallel and straight. Even on the HGNs and the DS, with their close weapon hardpoints it will cause them to potentially hit different locations instead of perfectly converge with like weapons.

Along with the downwards shake, that should keep it viable, but no longer ideal since the damage isn't necessary all on the same component.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Strum Wealh, on 27 May 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

Alternatively, they could apply the LRM code to the SRMs and make them into the guided, lock-on weapons they were supposed to be from the get-go?

Then, once the ammo-switching code for the Clan LB-X ACs is perfected, they can reintroduce the current "Dead-Fire" Missile implementation as an alternate ammunition type, along with introducing Inferno rounds, Heat-Seeking Missiles, Listen-Kill Missiles (which could be made to function like anti-radiation missiles for MWO gameplay purposes) and a few others.

Yeah, you're right.

That would work even better.

[Wesxander]

In classic battle tech missile spreads worked differently here's how:
I fire an LRM rack if it hits roll 2 six side dice generating a number between 2 and 12. The least amount of missiles that can hit depend on rack size. Could be between 2 missiles and max number if an 11 or 12 rolled. Then divide the number that hit into groups of 5

The process or SRM is similar but different. In classic battle tech each hit is rolled for separately resulting in shotgun effect usally. IE all 6 hit because you rolled a 12 on missile table with no AMS in play then 6 hit rolls would be made one for each missile,each doing 2 points damage.

If I blast you 4 times with srm 6 and persumming all hit that's whooping 48 points but it is spread everywhere typically. Not sure if PGI uses that same model for srm shots but the older games in MechWarrior did.

[YueFei]

SRMs are far too inefficient. Against a testing grounds Awesome at 90 meters, aiming for front CT with 2xASRM6, you get an efficiency of 65%. Your DPS is supposed to be 6 DPS, but in reality, it is closer to 3.9 DPS. Compare that to an AC5, which represents the same tonnage investment, but lower hardpoint and crit space investment, which will get you 3 DPS.

The AC5 also kills the Awesome after generating 22 heat. The 2xASRM6 generates 56 heat to kill the Awesome. That is 2.54 times more heat.

You get all these massive disadvantages for a higher investment in hardpoints and crit slots, less range, slower projectile speed. And at 90 meters, where the SRMs should dominate the AC5 in performance, you get a 23.6% faster TTK. In Testing Grounds, a sterile environment, no lag or HSR issues, on a stationary Awesome, at 90 meters.

Problem is that this slight increase in TTK may not even come to fruition, because of all the extra heat you generate. Against a target that is twisting and shielding, it may take you even longer to finally bring him down, and heat will become a very real issue, slowing down your DPS to the point where it might be a wash between AC5 and SRMs.

SRMs should kill a target twice as fast and twice as efficiently as an AC5 at 90 meters. Basically, if two similar mechs meet head-on and begin engaging at 90 meters, and one has AC5s and the other mech has equivallent tonnage in SRMs, the one with SRMs should win and walk away with ~60% health remaining, if both start at 100% and are piloted by players with equal skill. First step is to increase SRM efficiency by reducing spread. You should be able to get 100% of a salvo into the CT of an Awesome at 90 meters. That will increase SRM efficiency by over 50%. Then, bumping damage per missile to 3.0 will be another 50% increase in effectiveness. Combine these together, and SRMs will become twice as effective as they are now, and thus roughly twice as effective as an AC5 at 90 meters.

TLDR: tighten SRM spread so you can hit 1 component at 90 meters. Increase damage-per-missile to 3.0.

Edited by YueFei, 27 May 2014 - 07:11 PM.

[DONTOR]

RangerGee412, on 27 May 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

You have a high ping? SRMs work 90 to 95 percent of the time for me.

Damn! do you live next door to the servers or something?!

[Sephlock]

Gremlich Johns, on 27 May 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

Wanna really see if SRM hit-reg is fixed?

Turn them into Inferno SRMs for a few days.

The tears will either flow or we'll all go "Hey, fix SRM hit registration"

No, it'll be both. Even when LRMs were at their worst, people were still complaining about how "overpowered" they were.

DONTOR, on 27 May 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

Damn! do you live next door to the servers or something?!

He's their janitor.