51 replies to this topic

[Dakkaface]

Liam Salem, on 16 June 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

Last time I checked, Omnipods meant ANYTHING could be equipped in that spot. They weren't part of a set that limited you to one or two of a particular type.

So you haven't been paying attention for the last five months then? Because we've known about PGI's take on omnipods since February. The time to complain about this was long ago.

Liam Salem, on 16 June 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

If this is how the Omnipods are going to be set-up, who else agrees with me that the clan mech's are just a waste of money? Seriously. I LOVE the TimberWolf. I couldn't wait to make a variant with twin gauss. Then I find out that the Dev's just put interchangeable hardpoints onto the mechs?

Nope. I feel I got my moneys worth out of the Clan mechs I purchased. They're fun to pilot and fun to play. I finally have a jump-jetting energy-boat, and I'm fine with the way they executed the omnimechs within their system.

Also, the Prime's RT + S's LT gives you the torso slots for double Gauss. If you wanted to single side it, you can use the Prime RT and the C's RA, so clearly you didn't try very hard to make your 2xGauss mech.

Liam Salem, on 16 June 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

The HELL!? Seriously. I could understand, say, limiting the number of weapons on a spot. But limiting the type of weaponry? Sounds more like a suggestion for me to get a refund on my two Ala Carte mechs.

Anyone else feel this way? Die hard fans of mech's excluded here of course. You guys couldn't care less about the loadouts, just if you get to pilot the mech itself. Lol your opinions are going to be slanted.

Frankly, the current setup is just fine. The pods allow for greater customization for weapons without giving completely free reign to the user, while still allowing the omnimechs to fit into the 3 mech mastery system.

Liam Salem, on 16 June 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

I didn't realize though that I was playing a typical MMO where set-based gear was going to be part of playing. Next they might even add free roam -.-'

It's a small benefit to those who choose to run stock builds. Seriously small - a 2.5% XP bump translates into an extra 25 XP on a 1000 XP match. Whoop-dee-doo. I fail to see the issue. This isn't like Guild Wars 2 where a set bonus is a 6-point list of increasingly good benefits you get capping out with free summon-able attack NPC's.

Liam Salem, on 16 June 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

Anyoe else who agrees that Clan Omni's should be TRUE Clan Omni's and not the ones that come on the Hermes?

The what now? The Star League era mech? If that's not it I'm not getting the reference.

Liam Salem, on 17 June 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

Again, balancing isn't an issue. In my opinion, it was simply to avoid people whining about it being unfair, even though eventually you will be able to buy Clan Mechs for C-bills.But that reasoning I could actually understand them doing it that way. A job in retail says that.

just feel they should have remembered about pod space instead of giving interchangeable hard points.

Okay, lets say you make omnimechs be able to ignore hardpoints. Right off the bat, this breaks the mech-mastery system, because you only ever have one variant since true omni slots make buying other variants superfluous. If you just make it so Clan mechs can only be basic'd, you will hear complaints. If you make it so you have to buy three of the same mech with zero differences between them to get a mastery, you will hear more complaining. So you've removed your ability to sell variants to the users.

But say you find a way around this or simply bull through the complaints. Your omnis can slot whatever weapon wherever they please. You now have zero differential between chassis. Why take a Kit Fox ever, when the Adder gives you the same pod space, more armor, and you can just as easily throw jump jets and ECM onto the heavier light? Why ever take a Nova when the Stormcrow can do the same job with 7 more tons of pod space, better armor and go faster at the same time? What's the Summoner's Job when the Timber Wolf is just as fast, can hold 5 more tons of weapons and more armor? You've instantly made multiple mechs superfluous. The only differences are now in hitboxes and fixed equipment.

And on top of that, you now have less ability to balance Clan mechs. You can't add negative quirks to balance a particularly OP build wihtout nerfing the chassis as a whole or chasing weapon stats.

True omnipods were never going to happen - for balance reasons, design hurdles and buisness sense.

Edited by Dakkaface, 18 June 2014 - 02:44 PM.

[elitewolverine]

Dakkaface, on 18 June 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

So you haven't been paying attention for the last five months then? Because we've known about PGI's take on omnipods since February. The time to complain about this was long ago.

So a person that is not hugging the forums and looking to play has to go about reading all the news? I dont have time for that....hehe

Quote

Nope. I feel I got my moneys worth out of the Clan mechs I purchased. They're fun to pilot and fun to play. I finally have a jump-jetting energy-boat, and I'm fine with the way they executed the omnimechs within their system.

That is good, your opinion vs his.

Quote

Also, the Prime's RT + S's LT gives you the torso slots for double Gauss. If you wanted to single side it, you can use the Prime RT and the C's RA, so clearly you didn't try very hard to make your 2xGauss mech.

If you are having to do random configs in slots you dont want to put stuff in, you defeat the purpose of a Omni Pod

Quote

Frankly, the current setup is just fine. The pods allow for greater customization for weapons without giving completely free reign to the user, while still allowing the omnimechs to fit into the 3 mech mastery system.


It's a small benefit to those who choose to run stock builds. Seriously small - a 2.5% XP bump translates into an extra 25 XP on a 1000 XP match. Whoop-dee-doo. I fail to see the issue. This isn't like Guild Wars 2 where a set bonus is a 6-point list of increasingly good benefits you get capping out with free summon-able attack NPC's.

The 3 mech mastery system is meh, i dont feel like grinding out 3 different models just to master a chassis. If anything sticking to a single chassis has more benefits in real life imo that is. Of course i am lazy.

Quote

Okay, lets say you make omnimechs be able to ignore hardpoints. Right off the bat, this breaks the mech-mastery system, because you only ever have one variant since true omni slots make buying other variants superfluous. If you just make it so Clan mechs can only be basic'd, you will hear complaints. If you make it so you have to buy three of the same mech with zero differences between them to get a mastery, you will hear more complaining. So you've removed your ability to sell variants to the users.

Then change the system, i mean its not like they havent nerfed the lore already, ghost heat, pinpoint shots, lrm's that seem to only hit a CT even when my back is turned i get CT front damage. Powering up Gauss, seriously poop on the mechanics some more. Making one of the most effect pop tart killers in the game useless. Double armor...etc etc etc

Quote

But say you find a way around this or simply bull through the complaints. Your omnis can slot whatever weapon wherever they please. You now have zero differential between chassis. Why take a Kit Fox ever, when the Adder gives you the same pod space, more armor, and you can just as easily throw jump jets and ECM onto the heavier light? Why ever take a Nova when the Stormcrow can do the same job with 7 more tons of pod space, better armor and go faster at the same time? What's the Summoner's Job when the Timber Wolf is just as fast, can hold 5 more tons of weapons and more armor? You've instantly made multiple mechs superfluous. The only differences are now in hitboxes and fixed equipment.

And on top of that, you now have less ability to balance Clan mechs. You can't add negative quirks to balance a particularly OP build wihtout nerfing the chassis as a whole or chasing weapon stats.

True omnipods were never going to happen - for balance reasons, design hurdles and buisness sense.

Balance? Yes cause a jenner should always run up to a heavy and kill it...please
Design hurdles? Really....
Business sense? Have you not seem the forums? People seem to be just accepting that there is a MW game, despite its, imo, killing flaws to the point it took me a year just to pick it up again

Balance for Omni's was the base chassis was never reconfigurable. And pod space.

A non jump omni couldnt be made jump capable and visa versa. All hardpoints for armor and other things were set. Basically making it a weapons makers dream.

Everything in here is Opinions. IMO, i would have paid triple to get real mechanics, and i still hold to that figure. Ditch ghost heat, ditch double armor, ditch nerfs, and you can have my 1k hell f it 2k.

[Dakkaface]

elitewolverine, on 18 June 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

So a person that is not hugging the forums and looking to play has to go about reading all the news? I dont have time for that....hehe

If you can't be bothered to check the announcements more than once every six months, that's a far cry from 'hugging the forums.' I'd rate it closer to 'wants to be surprised about everything that appears in the game.'

elitewolverine, on 18 June 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

If you are having to do random configs in slots you dont want to put stuff in, you defeat the purpose of a Omni Pod

It's doesn't defeat the purpose. You still are able to make that config, whereas if you had an IS mech without the right hardpoints, you'd be SOL. You can't turn a CPT-A1, C1, C4 or J into a Gaussapult. You play the K2 or play something else. The omnipod system makes the triple mech mastery (not that it's a good system) less painful by basically letting you play the same mech 3 times.

elitewolverine, on 18 June 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

The 3 mech mastery system is meh, i dont feel like grinding out 3 different models just to master a chassis. If anything sticking to a single chassis has more benefits in real life imo that is. Of course i am lazy.

As mentioned, the omni-pod system as listed alleviates this significantly, other than the c-bill grind.

elitewolverine, on 18 June 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

Then change the system, i mean its not like they havent nerfed the lore already, ghost heat, pinpoint shots, lrm's that seem to only hit a CT even when my back is turned i get CT front damage. Powering up Gauss, seriously poop on the mechanics some more. Making one of the most effect pop tart killers in the game useless. Double armor...etc etc etc

Of course the three mech mastery system is annoying, it's part of the F2P grind that keeps games like MWO afloat. Sll F2P games have grind in order to incentivize the paying of money to bypass the grind. But changing it at this stage wasn't going to happen. That's not a 'change weapon damage numbers' level change, that's 'we have to design a new system that also has grind and C-bill sinks but isn't buying new variants, and then we have to check with the engineers that it's codable, and then it has to be coded and tested.' That's dev time on yet one more aspect of Clans that needed dev time. As it is, we're getting Clan features pushed back by a patch or two. Add in this change and we would see clans in August at the soonest. Probably later, as the current pod system seems to run largely off the inventory system so it probably was mostly getting the menus to work and adding a new item category.

elitewolverine, on 18 June 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

Balance? Yes cause a jenner should always run up to a heavy and kill it...please
Design hurdles? Really....
Business sense? Have you not seem the forums? People seem to be just accepting that there is a MW game, despite its, imo, killing flaws to the point it took me a year just to pick it up again

No idea what you are on about with balance. Businesses can make bad decisions, but they still need an overall plan about how to monetize their product. They aren't going to make a choice that makes it harder for them to sell you stuff.

elitewolverine, on 18 June 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

Balance for Omni's was the base chassis was never reconfigurable. And pod space.

Nope. Balance for omnis was Battle Value, and even that took a little time to hammer out.

elitewolverine, on 18 June 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

Everything in here is Opinions. IMO, i would have paid triple to get real mechanics, and i still hold to that figure. Ditch ghost heat, ditch double armor, ditch nerfs, and you can have my 1k hell f it 2k.

I wouldn't. Ghost heat I could live without but doubled armor is necessary when taking the system from the random locations of the tabletop to a non-random, skill based hit location. Even if the weapons weren't perfect pinpoint damage, it'd still be more accurate fire than we ever saw on the tabletop. If you want tabletop omnis with no ghost heat and a balanced game - well there's always Megamek.

[White Bear 84]

Wardsylvania, on 16 June 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

Liam, I think this is a critical balancing tool. Clan mechs already seem a little OP. Imagine if there were no hard point restrictions on Omnimechs, the kind of crazy builds people would be running. Balance would be difficult if not impossible. My opinion anyway.

The Timberwolf S supports dual gauss, so you can still have your desired build.

Absolutely cannot agree with this more...

It might be somewhat restrictive, but in all honesty there is the potential to try out so many different builds. At least with the clan mechs the choice to chop & change is there

[AC]

OP

You point out that the clan mechs are not true Omni, but you forget to point out that PGI threw Lore to the wind here.

They gave the clan mechs TAG, regular SRM's, and regular AC's. No clanner worth his codex would use a TAG laser. The clans didn't use artillery, so they didn't have TAG lasers. On top of that, clans didn't use regular SRM's, they were wasteful because not all the missiles hit. And finally, the clans never had regular AC's because they always had UAC's. UAC's were lostech in the IS and were rare, but not for the clans.


These items, IMO, really burn me.... the fact that they don't even know enough about the universe in which their game takes place to create a credible release of the clans. sad...just sad....

[Pariah Devalis]

AC, on 18 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

OP

You point out that the clan mechs are not true Omni, but you forget to point out that PGI threw Lore to the wind here.

They gave the clan mechs TAG, regular SRM's, and regular AC's. No clanner worth his codex would use a TAG laser. The clans didn't use artillery, so they didn't have TAG lasers. On top of that, clans didn't use regular SRM's, they were wasteful because not all the missiles hit. And finally, the clans never had regular AC's because they always had UAC's. UAC's were lostech in the IS and were rare, but not for the clans.


These items, IMO, really burn me.... the fact that they don't even know enough about the universe in which their game takes place to create a credible release of the clans. sad...just sad....

Excuse me, but... no. Several Clan mechs come with TAG standard (two quick examples being the Arctic Cheetah and Huntsman). Several Clan mechs come with Standard SRM, as well (can I hear a Jenner IIC, for example?). The standard ACs are placeholders, and PGI has stated so, so they are not viable objects of objection.

Seems someone unfamiliar with the lore or the inventory of Clan mechs out there should not be so quick to point fingers......

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 18 June 2014 - 04:56 PM.

[Dakkaface]

AC, on 18 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

OP

You point out that the clan mechs are not true Omni, but you forget to point out that PGI threw Lore to the wind here.

They gave the clan mechs TAG, regular SRM's, and regular AC's. No clanner worth his codex would use a TAG laser. The clans didn't use artillery, so they didn't have TAG lasers. On top of that, clans didn't use regular SRM's, they were wasteful because not all the missiles hit. And finally, the clans never had regular AC's because they always had UAC's. UAC's were lostech in the IS and were rare, but not for the clans.


These items, IMO, really burn me.... the fact that they don't even know enough about the universe in which their game takes place to create a credible release of the clans. sad...just sad....

Pariah has already covered the TAG silliness, let's also add that the Summoner's Invasion-era A and B variants sport standard SRM's canonically. As does the Timber Wolf B, Mad Dog A, Nova C, Stormcrow D, Warhawk B, & Kit Fox D. And that's just out of the designs we see in MWO. So Clans not using SRM's is hogwash. Finally the Clan version of standard AC's is the LBX which could swap between slug and cluster rounds - not the UAC.

Edited by Dakkaface, 18 June 2014 - 05:14 PM.

[Grimsin2014]

Soo... Omnipods... not a fan so far. They seem extreemly restrictive. Also is it just me or is there no way to change an engine in a clan mech? I feel as though I can not customize the clan mechs at all. No upgrades... no engines... other then change out weapons... Yes I too feel a bit of a desire for a refund. I bought the full mounty... i feel like I just got a whole ton of trial mechs.

And what exactly does changing the omnipod do since as far as i can tell based on the pop up info window they do nothing but cost me 170ish k to change.

[Pariah Devalis]

Grimsin2014, on 18 June 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

Soo... Omnipods... not a fan so far. They seem extreemly restrictive. Also is it just me or is there no way to change an engine in a clan mech? I feel as though I can not customize the clan mechs at all. No upgrades... no engines... other then change out weapons... Yes I too feel a bit of a desire for a refund. I bought the full mounty... i feel like I just got a whole ton of trial mechs.

And what exactly does changing the omnipod do since as far as i can tell based on the pop up info window they do nothing but cost me 170ish k to change.

If you have no idea what an omni pod does, how can you complain about it as restrictive? Also, where were you when it was explained by PGI months ago?

Omni-pods allow you to TOTALLY CHANGE THE HARDPOINTS of the section. For example, if you take the Right Torso omni-pod of a Prime Warhawk and replace it with the Bravo Right Torso omni-pod, you just went from zero hard points to two missile hardpoints. You can take a ballistic arm and replace it with an energy arm. Etc.

So, no, you cannot change the engine. You have (almost) free reign with the hardpoints, however. No, you cannot change the armor TYPE or internal structure TYPE, but why would you? You cannot change the heat sink type, but, again, why would you? You can choose to activate artemis or not, however.

Edit: one post post history, I see. Trollolololol

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 18 June 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[ElCadaver]

How about the timeframe for the rollout of clan weapons being equipped to IS mechs? That did happen in the books after all. By the end of the story arc, many IS units had all their IS mechs upgraded with clantech.

[White Bear 84]

Grimsin2014, on 18 June 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

Soo... Omnipods... not a fan so far. They seem extreemly restrictive. Also is it just me or is there no way to change an engine in a clan mech? I feel as though I can not customize the clan mechs at all. No upgrades... no engines... other then change out weapons... Yes I too feel a bit of a desire for a refund. I bought the full mounty... i feel like I just got a whole ton of trial mechs.

And what exactly does changing the omnipod do since as far as i can tell based on the pop up info window they do nothing but cost me 170ish k to change.

You bought the pack with out prior research to how clan mechs work?

I suggest you visit the general discussion forum, new player help and command chair threads.

[Grimsin2014]

I understand what they are supposed to do.... but when i mouse over one they all say 0 for hardpoints. So how do you know which one does what. Like i said... doesn't seem to do a darn thing.

All my 1... now 2 post count means is i dont get on the forums to troll people.. lol. But hey way to represent forum trolls with your uber post count. ROFL

[Pariah Devalis]

Mouse over them more. Green, purple, amber with icons on them? Those are your hardpoints. Some mechs have identical omnipods in given sections, others not so much.

Edit: at the time of your post, you did not have any purchase tags on you. Combined with the single post and the comment which read similar to one that any of the several dezgra that peruse these forums for no other purpose but to sling crud at the game with half truths and intentional ignorance would write, you came across as one of them. I apologize if that is not the case. We have a short fuse with those sorts.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 18 June 2014 - 07:49 PM.

[Azeem447]

What I really hope is that they release a LOT of omnipods so that we can mix and match what ever we want on what ever mech we want. I DO NOT agree with ANY argument that tries to say "Blance" you will NEVER blance a pvp game EVER. there is always some one who finds a way to work the system so I say give us a MechWarrior game or a BattleTech game but don't give us a modern warfare game with robots.

[Grimsin2014]

Also I don't see how you could consider simply being able to change hardpoints not restrictive. Means the only weight you can play with is that of the current weapon load out. Pretty restrictive from a simpletons point of view... if its simpley restrictive... then it is what it is.

Pariah Devalis, on 18 June 2014 - 06:57 PM, said:

Mouse over them more. Green, purple, amber with icons on them? Those are your hardpoints. Some mechs have identical omnipods in given sections, others not so much.

Edit: at the time of your post, you did not have any purchase tags on you. Combined with the single post and the comment which read simular to one that any of the several dezgra that peruse these forums for no other purpose but to sling crud at the game with half truths and intentional ignorance would write, you came across as one of them. I apologize if that is not the case. We have a short fuse with those sorts.

Yes i see the hardpoint icons but on every mech no mater what model i mouse over they all show 0? maybe im broken and need to run the repair tool again but...

Edit- On all hardpoint icons even.

Edited by Grimsin2014, 18 June 2014 - 07:25 PM.

[Sug]

Liam Salem, on 16 June 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

If this is how the Omnipods are going to be set-up, who else agrees with me that the clan mech's are just a waste of money?

Sounds more like a suggestion for me to get a refund on my two Ala Carte mechs.

Anyone else feel this way?

Pretty sure they explained how Omni's were going to work a long time ago.

[Grimsin2014]

Sug, on 18 June 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

Pretty sure they explained how Omni's were going to work a long time ago.

Considering I did not start playing until two months ago....

[Deathz Jester]

ElCadaver, on 18 June 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

How about the timeframe for the rollout of clan weapons being equipped to IS mechs? That did happen in the books after all. By the end of the story arc, many IS units had all their IS mechs upgraded with clantech.

this wonderful website named sarna, you'll notice IS didn't even start creating omni-mechs of their own until about 5-6 years after the invasion and that was still Innersphere weaponry & equipment. So I wouldn't expect that anytime soon, since they rolled the timeline yet again.


the wonders of being bored and using google

[AC]

Pariah Devalis, on 18 June 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

Excuse me, but... no. Several Clan mechs come with TAG standard (two quick examples being the Arctic Cheetah and Huntsman). Several Clan mechs come with Standard SRM, as well (can I hear a Jenner IIC, for example?). The standard ACs are placeholders, and PGI has stated so, so they are not viable objects of objection.

Seems someone unfamiliar with the lore or the inventory of Clan mechs out there should not be so quick to point fingers......

No.... none of those mechs were included in the clan invasion. Thanks for not paying attention to the lore sir....

[Dakkaface]

AC, on 18 June 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

No.... none of those mechs were included in the clan invasion. Thanks for not paying attention to the lore sir....

Arctic Cheetah: Produced 3037, common to both Smoke Jaguars and Nova Cats, used during the invasion.
Huntsman: Produced 3049, seen during Battle of Luthien.

Now granted, both of these are from TRO:3058, and aren't part of the original set of Clan mechs released in TRO:3050 even if they were produced earlier. But even in TRO:3050 the Fire Moth A and Mist Lynx A have TAG systems. So no. Pariah has demonstrated a better handle on the lore than you, sir.