43 replies to this topic

[Flak Kannon]

New Pilot: 101



Max your armor.

Up-engine your Mech.

Play Slower.

Play Opportunistic.

NEVER STOP MOVING

Often its better to flank, other times its best to let them show first

Maintain open firing lines, never allow your Lance or all Mechs to stack up single file.

Consider carrying both Arty and Airstrike for when 3-5 enemies are bunched...


And follow the flow, don't get left behind.




One of the Shadow Hawks best benefit is it's mobility, so make sure to use those jump jets and spread that damage over your whole hull. Secondly; is it's diverse weapon load outs, so overheating isn't often a problem, so you can maintain DPS for a while...tho I do love my (3) AC2 Shadow Hawk...but that's another strategy...

And lastly.... just plain experience and play time, time in the cockpit is invaluable. Most players need time to learn.. just like any pilot...

[Deathz Jester]

Gremlich Johns, on 24 June 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

I wish people would stop this "KB+M is the only way to go" manure.

I use a Joystick and a Razer Nostromo keypad to GREAT effect sometimes earning high game score. Below is me running my HBK-4G(F) - the right tool for me is the right tool, plain and simple.


and this one with my ASD-7D (F) with the same setup (I have more screenshots with scores like this, just ask):

Anyone can screen cap a good match and say "look how well i do with a joystick set up". I can screen cap a good match and say i use a Nintendo controller.


It may work for you, but thats you, the majority of players using a joystick just plain suck, and you can tell they walk about like an old person trying to figure out what a computer does and just discovering the mouse has 2 buttons.


Those are good matches, and I'm not questioning your skill, I'm saying I've seen the majority of the keyboard & mouse vs. joystick the joystick is ineffective. Also I'd point out, I said joystick setup, and you're using a keypad and a joystick set up. it'd be like saying "oh yea i can drive a manual transmission really well" and posting a picture of paddle shifters on your steering column.


There are exceptions, then again some people suck horrendously regardless of what control set-up they use.

[Mr Ikea]

Here's my take on the 5M: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6b550f7f57e8950

Imo a mech does best when it performs one role well. At 55 tons you need to dedicate to either long or short range combat. With this close-range build you can throw in 10 DMG jabs with the 2xML or the LBX10, then a knockout 20 DMG punch with the SRMs. Getting the weapon arm removed doesn't affect your DPS too heavily, unlike other builds where more of your alpha is contained in those 2 energy slots.

[Gremlich Johns]

Iron Harlequin, on 24 June 2014 - 04:15 PM, said:

It may work for you, but thats you, the majority of players using a joystick just plain suck, and you can tell they walk about like an old person trying to figure out what a computer does and just discovering the mouse has 2 buttons.


Those are good matches, and I'm not questioning your skill, I'm saying I've seen the majority of the keyboard & mouse vs. joystick the joystick is ineffective. Also I'd point out, I said joystick setup, and you're using a keypad and a joystick set up. it'd be like saying "oh yea i can drive a manual transmission really well" and posting a picture of paddle shifters on your steering column.


There are exceptions, then again some people suck horrendously regardless of what control set-up they use.

Your argument is splitting hairs, not to mention untenable. My setup is not that different from yours in that in our right hand is either a joystick or mouse and in the other, a keyboard (no matter what it looks like). Regardless how you label mine a setup, yours is too, which is what makes your argument untenable.

I will agree with you if you state the KB+M is the best thing for you, but to force your opinion on someone else from a narrow point of view (because you can't figure out how to make a JS work for you) is narrow-minded.

Better players use either a JS or a Mouse. You just have to get used to one or the other after you get it tuned, and play.

I don't see many using a JS, most use a mouse and spectating inside of a mech, I can tell that MOST people playing this game with a KB+M suck just as bad as someone with a JS they don't know how to use. Just as you observe in your last sentence.

[Deathz Jester]

Gremlich Johns, on 26 June 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Your argument is splitting hairs, not to mention untenable. My setup is not that different from yours in that in our right hand is either a joystick or mouse and in the other, a keyboard (no matter what it looks like). Regardless how you label mine a setup, yours is too, which is what makes your argument untenable.

I will agree with you if you state the KB+M is the best thing for you, but to force your opinion on someone else from a narrow point of view (because you can't figure out how to make a JS work for you) is narrow-minded.

Better players use either a JS or a Mouse. You just have to get used to one or the other after you get it tuned, and play.

I don't see many using a JS, most use a mouse and spectating inside of a mech, I can tell that MOST people playing this game with a KB+M suck just as bad as someone with a JS they don't know how to use. Just as you observe in your last sentence.

When did I ever say that someone has to use a mouse and keyboard setup? and I never denied that I have a "Setup" at all, nor is my argument untenable, now you're just making **** up. I dont use a joystick setup, because I dont have a joystick setup, I'm not going to go out and buy a joystick setup when I already have something to play the game with. So I never forced my opinion on anyone, you can puff your chest up all you want about your setup, I dont care, I was attempting to make an Un-biased statement about what I've observed since closed beta-until now, is that most of the players using Joystick setups purely for nostalgia and immersions sake do poorly in comparison to mouse and keyboard users. I dont have numbers, graphs, stats, or whatever to show this I just merely stated "If you're going for performance, mouse & keyboard is the way you should go".

If someone is so gullible to think my opinion is the law and I'm forcing it on them and they have to do it, then they have a bigger problem than worrying why they're not doing well at a videogame.



I also never said that everyone with a mouse and keyboard setup is better than joystick setup players.



Oddly enough, I said "There are exceptions, then again some people suck horrendously regardless of what control set-up they use."



I also didn't think I'd have to get so detailed and say "You may suck with it starting out, but maybe you'll be even better than any mouse & keyboard setup user after playing for a while."



There I called everything a setup so you wouldn't get confused or offended at my lack of putting the word after mouse & keyboard.


Do you read people's posts or are you so narrow-minded in your opinion that you fling the word untenable around when you don't like what someone says?

Edited by Iron Harlequin, 26 June 2014 - 02:01 PM.

[bar10jim]

This may go without saying, but I see countless players who don't know to use the 'R' key. If you are firing at a mech (other than a quick pot shot), hit 'R'. This will do several things:

1) It lets your team mates know where the enemy mech is/which way it's facing/moving, etc.so that they can move to support/intercept.
2) Allows team mates with LRMs to support you.
3) Displays a paper doll of the opponent's mech, letting you see where the weak points are. That's where to aim.
4) If you are close enough, it will target a shut-down mech that is trying to hide/play oppossum,

Of the four items listed above, #3 was the one that had the greatest impact on my game. taking that extra second to aim at a damaged area has led to many more kills/components destroyed. Is that mech missing all the armor on the right leg? Sweep the leg, Johnny! There is nothing more satisfying than taking out the leg of a wounded Jeager, then watching as it dies a few seconds later as the ammo stored in that leg explodes and transfers enough damage to the torso to kill it.

<giggles like a schoolgirl maniacally>

Edited by bar10jim, 26 June 2014 - 02:28 PM.

[plodder]

Wow. Nuf said.

[Catra Lanis]

I've managed to increase damage with one to an average of about 230/match once reacing as high as 370 on the 2H variant.

How does efficency work. I want to master the 2H and 5D (I have elite on three chasises). Can I sell the third one without mastering it and go for another medium a Centurion for example and do basics on three of them and master one or do I have to master 3 Shadowhawks first?

Also will the unlocks stay even if I sell it (in case I want to rebuy and continue)?

Edited by Catra Lanis, 29 June 2014 - 11:43 AM.

[HlynkaCG]

Iron Harlequin, on 23 June 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

• SHD-5M (modified) Its not a super "meta-build" but its effective at all ranges, and mainly meant for popping off AC/5 shots into people and using its jets to get around, if you're not comfortable with jump jets you can remove them and replace the tonnage as you see fit with something else. So thats just a suggestion for the 5M, since it retains the stock engine you can change that if you want, but the survival factor goes up, since its currently an XL. However you'd lose the tons you save by using an XL.

Your 5M is very similar to mine.

Quote

As far as joystick/flightsticks go you will notice that anyone using a mouse and keyboard setup will outperform anyone with a joystick/flightstick setup. It may be nice for nostalgia and immersion but thats just how it goes, its been like that since closed beta. Thats not even meant to sound bad, but if you're going for performance mouse + keyboard is the way to go.

You may want to try mapping the stick to movement rather than your cross-hairs. Mapping your x-axis to direction of travel and y to throttle while using a mouse in your opposing hand to aim offers numerous advantages over the standard mouse + keyboard setup.

[Catra Lanis]

Bought a Raven 2X just to have some variety although I feel lights are a bit too "spastic" for my taste. I managed to get one kill with it but what is the role of this mech? It's not fast enough to mix it up with harassers (with default loadout) and it has no ECM so I can't help out my lance by shielding them.

About joystick vs keyboard/mouse. I had no problem controlling the Raven with it (I thought a light would be hard), I think it actually partly worked to my advantage in some cases.

I've been spectating and often I see peoples crosshair and arm indicator snap all over the place often overshoot by a lot so they have to reverse (mostly in close up brawls and circe of death). I'm not so sure the joystick handicaps me so much, sure it's not as fast but some of it I feel is compensated by the fact that I can often take my time and cooly align correctly in the first place and fire from what feels like a more stable platform.

[IraqiWalker]

Catra Lanis, on 30 June 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

Bought a Raven 2X just to have some variety although I feel lights are a bit too "spastic" for my taste. I managed to get one kill with it but what is the role of this mech? It's not fast enough to mix it up with harassers (with default loadout) and it has no ECM so I can't help out my lance by shielding them.

It's an escort/satellite mech. Always stick to the group, and make sure enemy lights don't hit your big boys from behind. Strap streaks for escort duty, or SRM6 for Satellite.

I am assuming you know what the two roles mean. If not, here are the basic definitions:

Escort: run around the whole team, and try to protect the big blob from light mech harassment, and medium flankers.

Satellite: Help the blob get to the brawl. However, as soon as it starts, you pick a big mech, and orbit them like a satellite. Whatever they hit, you hit. Turna fair 1v1 into a 2v1 as quickly as possible. If anyone tries to hit the mech you're orbiting. Blast them to smithereens.

[HlynkaCG]

Catra Lanis, on 29 June 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

How does efficency work. I want to master the 2H and 5D (I have elite on three chasises). Can I sell the third one without mastering it and go for another medium a Centurion for example and do basics on three of them and master one or do I have to master 3 Shadowhawks first?

The more you pilot a given mech, the more XP you accumulate for it. This XP can be used to unlock "efficiencies" that improve the mech's performance. Improved heat dissipation, faster torso twist, that sort of thing. There are three tiers of efficiency, Basic, Elite, and Master. You unlock a new tier by unlocking the previous tier on 3 mechs of the same chassis, 3 Shadowhawks for instance.

Mastering a chassis confers a significant performance boost, so if you decide that you enjoy piloting a particular mech it is in your interest to do so.

That said, an unlocked efficiency is permanent, if you unlock all the Basic efficiencies on your 5M and then sell it, It will still count towards unlocking the efficiencies of any other Shadowhawk you buy.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 01 July 2014 - 09:23 AM.

[Chaldon]

I dont know about you guys but I'm loving my SRM builds with MGs and lasers as backups

[Lily from animove]

Catra Lanis, on 23 June 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Being a new player I figure I must doing something wrong. The thing is my K/D ratio is horrible win/loss is significantly better) and I only do 90-240 damage/match.

I currently run a Shadow Hawk 5M which is my third variant since I want to unlock master. I run default loadout on this except I stripped the SRM:s for a second medium laser and an AMS.

In a typical match I tag along with my lance and if it's a LRM map I help out emptying my rack. When the heavies start to duke it out I try to come in at another angle and support them, while trying not to get to close.

If I see enemies trying to flank I try to take up post at a choke point surpressing as best as I can in the hope that the heavies on my side will finish off their opponents and come help me in time before the enemy roll over me.

I am partial to ballistic weapons and more of a sniper/support guy than a brawler.

I should mention that I use a flightstick because I grew up with that kind of controller and torso twist feels like it naturally belongs on the Z axis. Maybe this handicaps me a bit but I have never been good at WASD and mouse.

What should I change in my tactics?

train train and train, and watch how other pilots do in the same chassis as yours.
Don't constantly switch your loadouts get used to them. It takes time to get used to your heat values, but when you do you don't pay attention anymore to your heat bar, because you have the feeling for your heat status.

My first mech was Atlas DDC
my next mechs were phracts

DDC: 103 matches k/d 043.
1x: 159 matches, k/d 0.63, the others around 0,74.
2x: 83 k/d 0.65
4x: 78 k/d .48

while I was in the end before clanners arrives quite good in these mechs, thy still suffer a horrible k/d by being my newbies mechs that teached me the game. They will bear this legacy for quite a long time. I may one day decide to at least put their k/d up to 1.00 because they deserve this purely by being the mechs that trained me.

later they were putting a 3D phract champion as trial in the game. And I tried it for a few matches: 18 matches, k/d 1.43.

The way to be a good mechwarrior is about some basic knowledge about mechaics, and then still a lot training to make use of these mechanics and getting used to these mechanics.

lrm's are a good way for beginners to stay insafety at the beginning and probably get used to the maps.
later go brawling and try those pop out and fire tactics for mid range mechs.

Wathcing other pilots is actually what gave me a lot help, because if you watch a bad pilot, you cna see their mistakes, which in the heat of your own battle can often not be recognized that easily as a newbie. And watching good pilots shows you how you should behave as well.

[Kodyn]

You could be seeing people's crosshairs jerking because they're torso twisting, to spread damage, which is also something you should be doing, and one of the things that a joystick doesn't do as well, which is why most players do not like them.

To the one guy defending his joystick...calm down. Most players don't use them because in most cases, they are not as responsive. If you're one of the few(I do personally know others) that can make it work perfectly, then more power to you, but I highly suggest in this new pilot's case they at least try using the normal setup of mouse and keyboard before settling on one or the other. Being able to move and respond quickly, as well as torso twist, is very important in this game...much more important than epeen bragging rights for using a stick and surviving, or immersion, if you spent most of your time spectating because the stick got you killed...unless that's your thing.

[Kiiyor]

Catra Lanis, on 23 June 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Being a new player I figure I must doing something wrong. The thing is my K/D ratio is horrible win/loss is significantly better) and I only do 90-240 damage/match.

I currently run a Shadow Hawk 5M which is my third variant since I want to unlock master. I run default loadout on this except I stripped the SRM:s for a second medium laser and an AMS.

In a typical match I tag along with my lance and if it's a LRM map I help out emptying my rack. When the heavies start to duke it out I try to come in at another angle and support them, while trying not to get to close.

If I see enemies trying to flank I try to take up post at a choke point surpressing as best as I can in the hope that the heavies on my side will finish off their opponents and come help me in time before the enemy roll over me.

I am partial to ballistic weapons and more of a sniper/support guy than a brawler.

I should mention that I use a flightstick because I grew up with that kind of controller and torso twist feels like it naturally belongs on the Z axis. Maybe this handicaps me a bit but I have never been good at WASD and mouse.

What should I change in my tactics?

It sounds like you actually have a nice grip on the tactical side of the game. Really. Most people don't progress past the 'HERP, PRESS DUBBAYAH AND CLICK ON THE BADDIES' mentality that seems pervasive to most pugs.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it really most likely is the stick that is crippling you.

I know from experience. Torso twist DOES belong on the Z axis! I was beyond excited to fire up my old force feedback MW4 weapon of choice, only to discover that I sucked tremendously with it. My first match with a mouse saw a dramatic improvement.

While it is very possible to aim well with the stick, it is really hard to aim well quickly.

I've even gone back and forth between it and the mouse. I just can't make it work. The mouse really is the best peripheral for aiming in MWO, and if i'm honest, PGI's implementation of mouse aiming in this game is staggeringly good.

If you were to start training with it, I would suggest keeping the sensitivity as low as you are comfortable with (precise aiming is easier if you have to move the mouse further - there is more room for fine tuning) and... practice. It will become muscle memory in no time at all. I may be exaggerating.

But all is not lost! Here are some sites that have mouse training sections designed specifically to help with eff-pee-esses:

http://aim400kg.ru/en/
Phoenominal site with dozens of different tests and training simulations.

http://mouseaccuracy.com/
Awesome site. Bit more basic than above.

http://online.brothe...use-skills.html
Though this is more of a game, it helps with target prioritization.

Invisible cursor game
Another game, but the catch of this one is that your mouse becomes invisible after a certain amount of time, and you have to hit targets based on your intuitive knowledge of where your cursor is and your muscle memory. Actually a fun game.

http://www.albinobla...com/flash/shoot
Again, a game, but this one tracks your accuracy visually with marks/bullet holes as you hit a moving target. Nice practice.

http://www.aimbooster.com/
Fantastic site! The precision tests are quite relevant to MWO.

Hope this helps.

Edited by Kiiyor, 21 October 2014 - 12:27 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Kodyn, on 21 October 2014 - 12:05 AM, said:

You could be seeing people's crosshairs jerking because they're torso twisting, to spread damage, which is also something you should be doing, and one of the things that a joystick doesn't do as well, which is why most players do not like them.

This ^

Also, you need to remember that what you see when spectating someone is often VERY, VERY different to what is happening on their screen. I've played at a LAN before with some friends, and I was staggered at the difference between what I was spectating and what they were actually doing (being in Australia, there was high ping, however). Most fine mouse movements don't translate at all, and there are even differences in aim points of a mech width or more between the two monitors.

Treat what you see when spectating as a very vague indication, and nothing more.

[mailin]

I want to stress again the importance of locking targets by pressing R. I really hope that you are already doing this, but if you aren't and think you don't want to, here's another thing to consider. By pressing R you inform your teammates about the presence of an enemy, which means they can hopefully help you take it out, which means you will live longer, which means you will be able to do more damage, take out more components and get more kills.

Also, lock any target that has a hollowed out triangle. This means that no one has that target locked. If you are the first to lock it and your buddies send some lrms that way you get extra xp for a spotting assist.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Gremlich Johns, on 26 June 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Your argument is splitting hairs, not to mention untenable. My setup is not that different from yours in that in our right hand is either a joystick or mouse and in the other, a keyboard (no matter what it looks like). Regardless how you label mine a setup, yours is too, which is what makes your argument untenable.

Really? So to you they are virtually the same, but you prefer a joystick. Isn't that just your opinion? Which is what he was saying or at least what I took from it.

Gremlich Johns, on 26 June 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

I will agree with you if you state the KB+M is the best thing for you, but to force your opinion on someone else from a narrow point of view (because you can't figure out how to make a JS work for you) is narrow-minded.

Force? So he is going to people's houses and stealing their joysticks and leaving mice behind?

Gremlich Johns, on 26 June 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Better players use either a JS or a Mouse. You just have to get used to one or the other after you get it tuned, and play.

Uh....what's the 3rd option? That's like saying the better players use monitors.

Gremlich Johns, on 26 June 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

I don't see many using a JS, most use a mouse and spectating inside of a mech, I can tell that MOST people playing this game with a KB+M suck just as bad as someone with a JS they don't know how to use. Just as you observe in your last sentence.

And how many players do you see? Most use a mouse and spectate? So he is stealing joysticks and you are installing cameras in people's houses?

[JC Daxion]

While 90, is not that much damage, I have had matches where i got 100 damage, and 4 kills for the win, and I've had other matches that i got 650+, and it was a loss. So really the main thing is try to understand how much you helped your team win, than get caught up in numbers.

KDR even to some extent is not that important.. as you can run 10 matches in a row, and rack up assists, and while you could of had the kill, someone kills it while your weapons are recharging, or some LRM's knock it out. Especially if you are playing in lights/mediums. I am in a cicada at the moment, so it is a faster mech, where you can maneuver and get to good spots and hit mechs in weak spots for easy kills. (though oddly, i often score more damage in a medium, than i do heavies or even assaults)

One thing i will say, especially in PUG's, when you see a flank coming, and no one else is backing you up, it is best to just fall back to the group. If you can say something, like 3 flanking C3.. But so often people don't bother to come and help, so it is best just to fall back to the main group, and basically make um help.. Either that or get shot up and killed


I play PUG's, and i'm pretty happy with a ratio around 1.. (still trying to dig up that average from when i was a newbie!) Though i will say the mechs i do best in, i am above 1.. I also do a lot of grind to master and switch to a new mech, so most of my fleet, i have around 100 matches in and then switch to another 3.. But i have noticed just playing a mech at master is a big boost. In my experiance, it is good for a nice .3-.5 boost in your KDR over time. The unlocks really do help that much. One day i keep saying my 4G will get over a .83, but it is hard crawling out of that 500 match hole i dug learning to play.



I will just add one other thing, Have you tried Joy-stick + mouse? I know people that do that, and some have a very good experience. They basically use the joystick for all movements/twists, and a couple of the buttons re-maped for functions, then use the mouse for firing, and aim.

I personally play keyboard+ mouse.. It just works better for me, even though i have a decent flight stick.

Edited by JC Daxion, 21 October 2014 - 10:38 AM.