43 replies to this topic

[Catra Lanis]

Being a new player I figure I must doing something wrong. The thing is my K/D ratio is horrible win/loss is significantly better) and I only do 90-240 damage/match.

I currently run a Shadow Hawk 5M which is my third variant since I want to unlock master. I run default loadout on this except I stripped the SRM:s for a second medium laser and an AMS.

In a typical match I tag along with my lance and if it's a LRM map I help out emptying my rack. When the heavies start to duke it out I try to come in at another angle and support them, while trying not to get to close.

If I see enemies trying to flank I try to take up post at a choke point surpressing as best as I can in the hope that the heavies on my side will finish off their opponents and come help me in time before the enemy roll over me.

I am partial to ballistic weapons and more of a sniper/support guy than a brawler.

I should mention that I use a flightstick because I grew up with that kind of controller and torso twist feels like it naturally belongs on the Z axis. Maybe this handicaps me a bit but I have never been good at WASD and mouse.

What should I change in my tactics?

Edited by Catra Lanis, 23 June 2014 - 12:34 PM.

[xMintaka]

Have you messed with the armour values at all? If not, I seriously suggest you take some armour from your empty left arm and use the weight saved to max out your front CT armour. If you jump a lot it would be worse upping your leg armour to 45 each, too.

Perhaps you could post your build?

I made a rough estimate including a few upgrades based on the stock build that includes more ammo, better armour distribution and more LRM's launched at once.

As for tactics, sticking behind assaults/heavies (not directly behind, leave them room to move) and shooting what they shoot. I know it sounds obvious, but this is imho the best way to learn the game. You don't draw as much aggro as you would out on a flank, and you can pay more attention to the way the team reacts to threats and moves about the map.

[Catra Lanis]

I'll post it tomorrow. The build is similar though but I moved the jump jets to the legs. I don't jump much and was tempted to remove two of them altogheter but since the gain in mass is so small I left them there.

[AlmightyAeng]

Well, since the 'stock' version with the SSRM's stripped out still has no torso space for an AMS, that can't be quite right.

Do us a favor. Go here to Smurfy's. Build us your mech, save the loadout and post it here. Then we can comment on your build.

[xMintaka]

I should have said this in my first post:

Welcome to MWO, and you're not doing anything wrong. You're going through the same learning process we all went through, despite the l33t nature of some sections of the forums. Glad to have you with us!

The SHD works pretty well with three or even two JJ's, jsyk. If you can find a use for an extra ton/half ton, consider dropping them.

[Redshift2k5]

It's entirely possible that all you need is more practice!

Sharing your exact build is super helpful though when seeking advice.

[Deathz Jester]

Catra Lanis, on 23 June 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Being a new player I figure I must doing something wrong. The thing is my K/D ratio is horrible win/loss is significantly better) and I only do 90-240 damage/match.

I currently run a Shadow Hawk 5M which is my third variant since I want to unlock master. I run default loadout on this except I stripped the SRM:s for a second medium laser and an AMS.

In a typical match I tag along with my lance and if it's a LRM map I help out emptying my rack. When the heavies start to duke it out I try to come in at another angle and support them, while trying not to get to close.

If I see enemies trying to flank I try to take up post at a choke point surpressing as best as I can in the hope that the heavies on my side will finish off their opponents and come help me in time before the enemy roll over me.

I am partial to ballistic weapons and more of a sniper/support guy than a brawler.

I should mention that I use a flightstick because I grew up with that kind of controller and torso twist feels like it naturally belongs on the Z axis. Maybe this handicaps me a bit but I have never been good at WASD and mouse.

What should I change in my tactics?

Your damage is fine as long as you're shooting the right spot, and it definitely sounds like you know what you're doing, staying near teammates, supporting where needed, etc. I'd recommend though figuring out what kind of loadout you want to do on your mech other than stock, as many mechs stock loadouts are not "optimized" in general.


You said you have the Shadow Hawk 5M, do you still have any of the other variants?

I'm not a pro at making builds since I play to have fun, which some people laugh at, but thats why we play games isn't it? Anyway I'll try to think up some builds, I have one in mind for the 5M;

• SHD-5M (modified) Its not a super "meta-build" but its effective at all ranges, and mainly meant for popping off AC/5 shots into people and using its jets to get around, if you're not comfortable with jump jets you can remove them and replace the tonnage as you see fit with something else. So thats just a suggestion for the 5M, since it retains the stock engine you can change that if you want, but the survival factor goes up, since its currently an XL. However you'd lose the tons you save by using an XL.

• SHD-2H (Bushwacker) I based my 2H off of the Bushwacker's loadout, you may remember it from Mechwarrior 3 & 4

As far as joystick/flightsticks go you will notice that anyone using a mouse and keyboard setup will outperform anyone with a joystick/flightstick setup. It may be nice for nostalgia and immersion but thats just how it goes, its been like that since closed beta. Thats not even meant to sound bad, but if you're going for performance mouse + keyboard is the way to go.




I think you're tactics sound fine, its just everyone has bad days and for the most part stock builds on mechs are a bad idea.

Edited by Iron Harlequin, 23 June 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Well Dmg can be spotty even for a experienced player but you wanna be putting up similar number to your teammates. This is a good indicator of you shooting what, where and when they are which shows that you are working as a team and focusing fire. Both very, very important in this game. The better you focus fire the quicker the mechs drop and the easier it is to move onto the next target.....like the ones coming in behind ya!

If it was me if have an ac/20 and 2 med laser in that 5M and let the shells fly, but to each his own. I have a hard time putting decent damage down range with build that cater to long and short range....just seem i cant use all the weapons at the same time or same ranges and I don't get the numbers i would like to see. So i stick to similar ranges on those builds and brawl it out! If i go LRM's I also would want ER LL so i can do all my damage from the backfield and not just half of it while launching the LRM's and trying to support 2 ER lasers can go a long way in the support role. My next suggestion would be to buy a RVN-3L or Kit Fox when the clan mechs hit for Cbills (can buy it for real money right now though) put ECM and some ER's and flourish in the Sniper/Support role you seem to enjoy.

Another way to get better faster and sharpen those skills is to JOIN A GROUP! Group play will help big time and will also introduce you to new ideas, skills, builds and tactics you may never have thought of on your own.

Good luck, If you are ever looking for more help come join me in TS3 on Strana Mechty! As well as the Training School thread if it is still up and running.

Stay Nominal

[William Slayer]

You seem to have a solid plan stratigically, but it sounds like you keep getting focused on as a threat or as an easy target. Both situations get you destroyed earlier rather than later and keep your DMG and Kills down. The BEST games (DMG\ Kills \ Wins) happen when the magical stars line up and NO ONE SEES YOU. Honestly, the best games I've had are where I seem to be invisable to the enemy and I help take down Mechs with a partner, then move on to helping someone else take someone down AND THE ENEMY NEVER FOCUSES ON ME as the target. There are some weapons that can help you do that IMO. Take weapons like your Ballistics that don't point a giant line back to your mech, but use them only when teaming up against an opponent. Use Lasers when you have an opponent who is already focused on another target, as it does not shake his mech and make him realise someone else is hitting him. Hope this helps!

[Artax33]

When i first started playing I had the same problems. It took a few weeks before 200+ was normal damage and I might get a kill. I had a friend from work who had been playing since the start of open beta and helped me. I would suggest you get with a group and have someone or ones help you learn the ropes. This game has a heavy learning curve

William Slayer, on 23 June 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

The BEST games (DMG\ Kills \ Wins) happen when the magical stars line up and NO ONE SEES YOU. Honestly, the best games I've had are where I seem to be invisable to the enemy and I help take down Mechs with a partner, then move on to helping someone else take someone down AND THE ENEMY NEVER FOCUSES ON ME as the target.

This pretty much sums up my best games. Had a game one time where I just seemed to prance around the battle field shooting what ever I wanted, got over 900 damage and a few kills.

[AzureDragoon]

Focus, Focus, and Focus. No, this is not just me trying to beat the concept into your head by repeating a word several times over. There are three things to focus on when shooting at an enemy mech:

-A. Focus the same target as your team mates (unless there's a better option for you): MWO biggest swing factor is who's putting their shots on target. And a Team that's working on destroying one or two targets quickly, rather than spreading fire out on 4-6+ has a much higher chance of succeeding. Sure, occasionally you can quickly switch target's and give your foe a "gentle" reminder that their next, and thus, should get their mech back into cover, but overall, you want to focus on eliminating a threat from your team. Note how many matches come down to who works together at a team to start steamrolling another team, and who get's left out to be destroyed.

-B. Focus on the same component/weakened armor areas as your allies. This is much the same as above. Unless you've got a Line of Sight/Angle of attack issue, try to focus on areas that are most damaged first. Shooting the an arm, when it's corrosponding side torso is about fall off is pointless.

-C. Know the enemy mech, and focus on it's critical areas. Does the mech have it's most powerful/numerous weapons in area? Focus on that. Does it have an ECM? Know where it is so you can disable it. Is it a AC (LBX/UAC) or LRM? figure out where remaining ammo is probably stored, and shoot there. Is it a Gauss? Destroy the Gauss. Does it typically mount an XL engine and is an IS mech? Shoot the torsos.

[qki]

It takes practice, and a fair bit of self control.

I'd suggest switching to left handed joystick for movement control, and going with the mouse for torso - you just can't compare the two. You wouldn't play a first person shooter with a joystick, and you are gimping yourself a lot. And while the mech looks like it is driven with a joystick and throttle, it also uses pedals, and a little something called a NEUROHELMET. Do you happen to have one of those in working condition?



Also, If I had to give just one piece of advice, I'd say STAY ALIVE. The longer you stay alive, the more good you will do. Also - on't try to go for kills - concentrate on doing damage. If someone else gets the kill, so be it, but I found I do significantly worse when I have a bad string of deaths with no kills, and try to "repair my k/d ratio".

[xMEPHISTOx]

Catra Lanis, on 23 June 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Being a new player I figure I must doing something wrong. The thing is my K/D ratio is horrible win/loss is significantly better) and I only do 90-240 damage/match.

I currently run a Shadow Hawk 5M which is my third variant since I want to unlock master. I run default loadout on this except I stripped the SRM:s for a second medium laser and an AMS.

In a typical match I tag along with my lance and if it's a LRM map I help out emptying my rack. When the heavies start to duke it out I try to come in at another angle and support them, while trying not to get to close.

If I see enemies trying to flank I try to take up post at a choke point surpressing as best as I can in the hope that the heavies on my side will finish off their opponents and come help me in time before the enemy roll over me.

I am partial to ballistic weapons and more of a sniper/support guy than a brawler.

I should mention that I use a flightstick because I grew up with that kind of controller and torso twist feels like it naturally belongs on the Z axis. Maybe this handicaps me a bit but I have never been good at WASD and mouse.

What should I change in my tactics?

It sounds as though you have sound tactics, however I would recommend if you like sniper/support role to take a sniper build for your SHD5M as that mech is a great sniper platform.
ATM I use this version >>> SHD-5M and on occasion I have used >>> SHD-5M, its a little light on ammo however if don't miss 30 rounds is more than enough.
The 5M provides you with a very quick sniper, meaning you can change position as necessary to elude enemy fire especially now with the high DPS clan mechs arrival. Also try to stick with the other bigger snipers as they will often be targeted before your shadowhawk will, and stay mobile shooting while jj and moving to make yourself a harder target. If necessary practice that in the training maps to get good at/used to moving/jumping/shooting simultaneously.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 23 June 2014 - 02:29 PM.

[Koniving]

Catra Lanis, on 23 June 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Being a new player I figure I must doing something wrong. The thing is my K/D ratio is horrible win/loss is significantly better) and I only do 90-240 damage/match.

For the average lone player, 200+ is pretty decent.
90, not so much.

Quote

I currently run a Shadow Hawk 5M. I run default loadout on this except I stripped the SRM:s for a second medium laser and an AMS.

There's your issue. LRMs are handy, but for every 10 LRMs fired at range, a single AMS will shoot down 5. The 5M shoots them in twin volleys of 10. It's good for milking some extra cash but isn't good for damage. The Ultra 5 is prone to jamming at the worst times. Consider swapping to an AC/10 if you want that kind of fire power but be reliable, or AC/5 to maintain that range. Given the weight sacrifices, probably AC/5. If you go AC/10, you may need to trade the LRM-20 to install some SRMs for a close range punch when things get near you.

Quote

If I see enemies trying to flank I try to take up post at a choke point surpressing as best as I can in the hope that the heavies on my side will finish off their opponents and come help me in time before the enemy roll over me.

Make sure you are communicating the situation if possible. There's two methods.

The Distress signal, (rapidly hit R to draw a lot of attention to that target as on every ally's computer it will annoyingly beep and rapidly flash one or more red triangles on their screen. It never fails to draw attention [but it does annoy people].
I am partial to ballistic weapons and more of a sniper/support guy than a brawler.

The other method is to say what and where in "Y" (team) chat or "U" (lance) chat. Lance is a lot more likely to respond, but a portion of the entire team is more likely to react if you let them know.

Worst case, a glancing beam shot at a team mate will draw attention.

Quote

I should mention that I use a flightstick because I grew up with that kind of controller and torso twist feels like it naturally belongs on the Z axis. Maybe this handicaps me a bit but I have never been good at WASD and mouse.

I use a throttle stick and mouse combination most of the time. What matters is whether or not you can aim well with it. If not, it may be time to look into a "Zero-order" throttle and flightstick system. They may not be cheap, but they are so incredibly accurate you could replace your mouse with them in everyday stuff.

I don't believe there is much to change about your tactics. Though with mostly range weapons perhaps it's a good idea to stay as a second or third line mech until out of missiles. To help you live longer at long range you can increase your front armor and reduce the rear armor. Be weary of enemies getting behind you however.
Btw. With what you mentioned on your tactics you have little use for that many jumpjets; it's okay to trade some for more ammo.

If it says anything for tactics, you're doing more 'right' than most new players and many experienced players.

I wish more players would actively try to handle a flank without breaking up the front line.

[Catra Lanis]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...23acdfecd39a70e

This one I tried today, it's identical to the first except I swapped the LRM20 for a SRM6 and SRM4 and more UAC ammo.

(there is something strange with the tool though it doesn't calculate mass correctly I think so it says I have tonnage left but the game says I am at max)

I had more sucess with this and managed to average my damage to around 200/match reaching as high as 340 once. I also got a few more kills.

The strategy had to change a bit to one that I am not entirely comfortable with. I often basically ran in circles around enemy mechs while mashing the trigger and thinking die please die plese... I did some "sniping though"

Oh and what does long range mean in modules? Is it same as optimum range before falloff?

Edited by Catra Lanis, 24 June 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[Apnu]

Catra Lanis, on 24 June 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...23acdfecd39a70e

This one I tried today, it's identical to the first except I swapped the LRM20 for a SRM6 and SRM4 and more UAC ammo.

(there is something strange with the tool though it doesn't calculate mass correctly I think so it says I have tonnage left but the game says I am at max)

I had more sucess with this and managed to average my damage to around 200/match reaching as high as 340 once. I also got a few more kills.

The strategy had to change a bit to one that I am not entirely comfortable with. I often basically ran in circles around enemy mechs while mashing the trigger and thinking die please die plese... I did some "sniping though"

Oh and what does long range mean in modules? Is it same as optimum range before falloff?

You forgot the engine. That's important to know especially in a medium mech where speed = life.

Having said that and guessing you're using an XL280 its not a bad build. I'd recommend the AC5 over the UAC5 because of the high jam rate.

When I run my shads I either set them up as light hunters (fast engine, BAP, SSRM2s, LB10s and MLs) or I go with what you have which seems to be something of a brawler. When brawling in a medium which I do often in my HBK-4G, I stick to a big mech (Jager, 'phract, any Atlas, Victor, or Stalker) and fire at whatever they're shooting at. I use my speed to hide behind terrain and other mechs, get my shots in and get back into cover. I rarely challenge any mech directly unless I've got a clear advantage (such as they're tore up or legged, or I out ton and out gun them). Mediums just aren't built to take the kind of damage heavies and assaults can dish out. Best not be there when they pull the trigger.
So my advice is find a buddy in each match and stick with them. Believe me, even the most arrogant DDC pilot loves having a wing man. If any thing you'll keep the ankle biters from needling away at them and they'll love you for it.

Edited by Apnu, 24 June 2014 - 12:30 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Catra Lanis, on 24 June 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...23acdfecd39a70e

This one I tried today, it's identical to the first except I swapped the LRM20 for a SRM6 and SRM4 and more UAC ammo.

(there is something strange with the tool though it doesn't calculate mass correctly I think so it says I have tonnage left but the game says I am at max)

I had more sucess with this and managed to average my damage to around 200/match reaching as high as 340 once. I also got a few more kills.

The strategy had to change a bit to one that I am not entirely comfortable with. I often basically ran in circles around enemy mechs while mashing the trigger and thinking die please die plese... I did some "sniping though"

Oh and what does long range mean in modules? Is it same as optimum range before falloff?

You're forgetting the engine and heatsinks

Koniving, on 23 June 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

Worst case, a glancing beam shot at a team mate will draw attention.

What are you talking about Kon? I've never done that before


EDIT: People are throwing around sniper builds, but no one seems to remember THIS guy. 1 Gauss, 1ERPPC. I would recommend using an XL250 instead of the 280, if possible, to allow for more armor. 25 points of damage to someone's face is plenty suppression.

The nice thing about that build, is that you can run it, on all SHD variants, except the 2K.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 24 June 2014 - 01:09 PM.

[qki]

I tend to put lasers in my team's field of view - works as well as a pointy thattaway sign, pointing thattaway.

[Groutknoll]

hmm, I thought case prevented ammo explosion damage from transferring to the next section (ra -> rt -> ct or rl -> rt -> ct). So case in lt/rt with a xl engine would not help, loss of rt/lt is death anyway. Dropping the case would give you another dhs or another ton of ammo, depends if you are running hot or out of ammo.

Also I would look into moving some of you JJs to rt/lt/ct that way when you are legged you can still try to hop over something to get away, make a cool mid-air death scene, OR try for a DFA! lol

[Gremlich Johns]

Iron Harlequin, on 23 June 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

ystick/flightsticks go you will notice that anyone using a mouse and keyboard setup will outperform anyone with a joystick/flightstick setup. It may be nice for nostalgia and immersion but thats just how it goes, its been like that since closed beta. Thats not even meant to sound bad, but if you're going for performance mouse + keyboard is the way to go.

I wish people would stop this "KB+M is the only way to go" manure.

I use a Joystick and a Razer Nostromo keypad to GREAT effect sometimes earning high game score. Below is me running my HBK-4G(F) - the right tool for me is the right tool, plain and simple.






and this one with my ASD-7D (F) with the same setup (I have more screenshots with scores like this, just ask):

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 24 June 2014 - 03:48 PM.