37 replies to this topic

[GreyGriffin]

This might be a little bit technical, but I have a suggestion on how sidestepping and juking might be handled.

I am going to assume that MWO uses the same throttle system as previous mechwarrior games.

Sidestepping in a typical FPS is what we normally interpet as torso twisting. Your avatar twists at the hips and moves sideways, his legs pointed in the direction of his movement. In Mechwarrior, we already have that. It's called Torso Twisting.

Juking or strafing would actually be a dash-like action, a true sidestep, keeping legs faced forwards, while making a sideways motion. This is not the normal means of motion for a battlemech, so if used to actually cover ground, it would be relatively slow. At a walk or a standstill, you could strafe side to side to peek out from buildings, to fine tune your position for a parade screenshot, or fine tune your course through rough terrain. If you make a strafing motion while at a run, your 'Mech could use its forwards momentum to make an erratic side-to-side motion. However, if you sidestep too much while running and your pilot can't handle it, you might take a spill.

The ability to juke at high speeds (combined with high acceleration) would give fast Lights some legs when they're running from an Atlas. However, a heavier 'mech would only be able to effect a small sidestepping motion, which might be enough to dodge a little fire, but it wouldn't be leaping over city blocks or anything.

Edited by GreyGriffin, 18 November 2011 - 12:10 PM.

[Brakkyn]

In the original 2009 "Phoenix" video, you can see the Jenner sidestepping. That was one of many things that made me think this game would be much different from earlier ones, and I thought "awesome".

We're only lmited by the scope of the developer's imagination and the game's engine.

Edited by Brakkyn, 18 November 2011 - 12:12 PM.

[Xhaleon]

That's nothing difficult to implement in code.

The problem is how to make it compatible with us poor humans with only two hands and ten fingers. I'm really trying to think how to work sidestepping in without throwing away torso movement, or heck, arm movement.

*edit*

I forgot us poor humans also have two feet and ten toes, and maybe one tongue, but that requires an optional controller rig that most people will not have, not to mention those of us poor humans who's only good computer is a laptop with only so many plugs.

Edited by Xhaleon, 18 November 2011 - 12:17 PM.

[GreyGriffin]

If you don't have a HOTAS with spare keys, let me venture a suggestion.

1-10 throttle

A, D - turn left-right

Mouse: Torso/reticle control

Q-E: Sidestep.

Tab, R: Toggle left/right view.

[CeeKay Boques]

Missiles you should be able to dodge, speed of sound Rifle shots as well, but only in the terms of "serpentine" movements making yourself hard to hit, if you see the muzzleflash, its probably too late to react.

Not impossible though...

Edited by Technoviking, 18 November 2011 - 12:25 PM.

[Xhaleon]

GreyGriffin, on 18 November 2011 - 12:21 PM, said:

snippy snippy

HUDURP ADERP, IMMA RETARDED

Yes yes yes, my brain suffered a short circuit and was thinking ahead to the level of independent arm movement. The tank-like movement is still handled like normal by WASD, while QE is for strafing, and mouse is for torso control. It leaves out arm movement, so I'm trying to think how to get that to work without a freelook-type toggle button. I mean, I was plenty happy using QE and Shift-QE for torso movement in MW3...

That is aside from using FPS controls, which would offer a more intuitive control over moving diagonally than working with a fixed throttle. Maybe if hypothetically we use an FPS control setup, then the number buttons are the hard throttle settings, while the WASD are simply temporary accelerators in their respective directions. But then if the mouse is for turning, is the Q and E for torso twisting? Then what about the arms AGH

Edited by Xhaleon, 18 November 2011 - 12:39 PM.

[VYCanis]

hold down one key, use other keys

could be the shift key

shift + forward, activates masc if you have it
shift + turn L/R, sidesteps
shift + reverse, crouches.

[CaveMan]

In the boardgame, sidestepping is usually reserved only for quad 'Mechs. Since those chassis have a lot of other disadvantages, it might be a good idea to let them be the only ones that can sidestep.

Or let quads sidestep at nearly full speed while bipeds can only shuffle a bit to the side.

[GreyGriffin]

CaveMan, on 18 November 2011 - 01:55 PM, said:

Or let quads sidestep at nearly full speed while bipeds can only shuffle a bit to the side.

Better option. Bipedal 'mechs can shuffle side to side, or, at a run, make a juking hop to make them difficult to target, while quads can have full horizontal mobility. They trade off enough with limited torso twist.

[Hodo]

Most mechs couldnt sidestep. But if you want to move like that torso twist 45deg to one way or the other, and run. Hot damn now your strafing.

[Yeach]

Hodo, on 18 November 2011 - 05:44 PM, said:

Most mechs couldnt sidestep. But if you want to move like that torso twist 45deg to one way or the other, and run. Hot damn now your strafing.

You mean torso-twist the legs 90 deg and run back and forth. Weeeee you're strafing.

[Lasercat]

Yeach, on 18 November 2011 - 07:48 PM, said:

You mean torso-twist the legs 90 deg and run back and forth. Weeeee you're strafing.

Not really. Doing that in some confined area with buildings everywhere is more time consuming (and a general annoyance) compared to strafing.

I guess I kind of posted in the wrong thread earlier, but imagine you wanted to hide your mech in a narrow alley while facing in some direction. Having an extra degree of motion helps out a lot with something like that. If you could not strafe, you'd be stuck forward/reversing as if you were parallel parking a car. Of course doing some sort of side step would be much slower than walking normally.

Also a dedicated strafe ability would allow other things like juking at higher speeds. Having more keys dedicated to movement opens the door for more intricate control over the mech, and it doesn't mean that the control scheme would get unbearably complicated.

For example I'd be all for things like letting players lean around corners to barely expose some weapon or sensor pod from cover. If there were strafe keys then crouch+strafe = lean.

[Mchawkeye]

can i ask what juking is? is it anything like jinking?

[Nik Van Rhijn]

seems to be, or dodging.

[Xhaleon]

Mchawkeye, on 19 November 2011 - 01:36 AM, said:

can i ask what juking is? is it anything like jinking?

A small, quick hop to the side. Try it while running, and you'll understand. It's completely beyond even helicopters, because they don't have surface friction to work with unlike us ground pounders.

[GreyGriffin]

Xhaleon, on 19 November 2011 - 01:56 AM, said:

A small, quick hop to the side. Try it while running, and you'll understand. It's completely beyond even helicopters, because they don't have surface friction to work with unlike us ground pounders.

Correct. Strafing is constant movement sideways by turning the torso in relation to the legs. A juke is a purely humanoid or animal motion, where you hop laterally, usually while in forward motion.

[Barbaric Soul]

for anyone that doesnt actually know what a juke is, here-

Watch the moves that Donte (#82) does to break the tackles between 11 to 16 seconds. That is what is called juking.

[Hodo]

Here let me put it this way.

Just because a 5'9" 170lb WR can do it, doesnt mean a 75 ton 48ft tall machine that was built not born, will do the samething. I would love to see the physics behind such a thing. I dont think the ground would even support such a movement.

I have seen M1A2 Tanks attempt to turn at speed in the same area a HUMVEE does and it just chew up the asphault and slide several meters in the direction it was originally traveling. Why you ask..... The LAWS of PHYSICS!

[VYCanis]

if a mech can actually walk,run, turn around, walk up hills, walk down hills, make self correcting movements to keep themselves balanced, walk upright along an incline, right itself from a fall, kick, jump, land, navigate rough terrain, lay itself down, crouch,

then its ought to have the flexibility in the legs/hips necessary to sidestep. If it couldn't manage a sidestep, it wouldn't be able to handle even half of the default movements,

People take their hips for granted.

Edited by VYCanis, 19 November 2011 - 03:49 PM.

[Hodo]

VYCanis, on 19 November 2011 - 03:49 PM, said:

if a mech can actually walk,run, turn around, walk up hills, walk down hills, make self correcting movements to keep themselves balanced, walk upright along an incline, right itself from a fall, kick, jump, land, navigate rough terrain, lay itself down, crouch,

then its ought to have the flexibility in the legs/hips necessary to sidestep. If it couldn't manage a sidestep, it wouldn't be able to handle even half of the default movements,

People take their hips for granted.

Sidestep yes....

Not become Dante "the human joystick" Hall. This isnt Gundam.