20 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

So people have been complaining about the Timberwolf-S making the Summoner kind of irrelevant because it can mount jumpjets and has the option of mounting 1-5 instead of the Summoner being stuck with 5 in every build.

The solution is simple, just give the Summoner Class 4 jumpjets instead of Class 3, hell maybe Class 5 jumpjets if you really want to go nuts, although that seems a little extreme.

Bam, problem solved, especially with the fixes to jumpjet thrust and heat coming eventually.

EDIT: I didn't realize that Class 3 jumpjets weighed a ton, I thought all classes of JJs weighed the same amount at a half ton so maybe it's not the best idea after all because of the effect it would have on tonnage.

Edited by Pjwned, 25 June 2014 - 04:46 PM.

[zazz0000]

So basically donate it a bit of extra tonnage?
Sounds pretty good. Would the thrust be affected by that?

[Waelsleaht]

Yes the thrust would be effected. The lighter JJ are for lighter mechs. Capable of less thrust than the heavier JJ.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Or fix jump jets so 5 of them is better than 2.

One idea I have is for more or less jump jets affect their recharge rate.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 25 June 2014 - 04:08 PM.

[Pjwned]

Waelsleaht, on 25 June 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

Yes the thrust would be effected. The lighter JJ are for lighter mechs. Capable of less thrust than the heavier JJ.

That might be what their intended function is, but as far as I understand that's not how it actually works, and when jumpjet heat comes around it would be a considerable bonus.

Feel free to correct me if I am actually wrong.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pjwned, on 25 June 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

So people have been complaining about the Timberwolf-S making the Summoner kind of irrelevant because it can mount jumpjets and has the option of mounting 1-5 instead of the Summoner being stuck with 5 in every build.

The solution is simple, just give the Summoner Class 4 jumpjets instead of Class 3, hell maybe Class 5 jumpjets if you really want to go nuts, although that seems a little extreme.

Bam, problem solved, especially with the fixes to jumpjet thrust and heat coming eventually.

If anything, let's simply leave the tonnage as is, but give the Summoner JJs a thrust and recharge profile in line with a Medium Mech.

Possibly increase it's twist rate and range, and torso pitch, too.

Screwing with anything that affects weight, crits or such of the locked core is just plain setting a real bad precedent by breaking the core Omni MEchanics, and opens up the way for all sorts of abuse in the future. I'll pass on that, if possible.

Simply make the Summoner markedly nimbler and more mobile than the TWolf, and it will have a niche, beside for those of us who just like how it looks. Heck if the Nova can be made desirable, you's think 6.5 extra tons of guns would make the Summoner easy peazy.

Hans Von Lohman, on 25 June 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

Or fix jump jets so 5 of them is better than 2.

One idea I have is for more or less jump jets affect their recharge rate.

Technically, they are. My 7 JJ Griffin can jump notably farther than my 4 JJ one. But faster recharge would be welcome.

[Destructicus]

I love my summoner, fully mastered and everything
I don't really have any complaints with it, people underestimate it and I prefer the hitboxes to those of the timberwolf

[Koniks]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 June 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

Technically, they are. My 7 JJ Griffin can jump notably farther than my 4 JJ one. But faster recharge would be welcome.

It mostly shows up in total amount of fuel. The thrust profiles really need an overhaul.

Timber Wolves with 1 JJ basically get 5m of free jump just from tapping the key. It's like they leap into the air before the jets kick in.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mizeur, on 25 June 2014 - 04:39 PM, said:

It mostly shows up in total amount of fuel. The thrust profiles really need an overhaul.

Timber Wolves with 1 JJ basically get 5m of free jump just from tapping the key. It's like they leap into the air before the jets kick in.

look at those athletic thighs! That's exactly what they do!

[Pjwned]

Wow, I was wondering why "free tonnage" popped up more than once, so I took a closer look at Class 3 jumpjets and to my surprise they actually are more heavy. I honestly did not know that Class 3 JJs or lower weighed more, I thought each class weighed half a ton and they had some other quirks like lower turn rate or whatever for the lower class jets.

Just goes to show how much I play heavy & assault mechs I guess, which is to say not at all. Which is mostly because grinding out heavy & assault mechs is a pain in the ass

So...

Bishop Steiner, on 25 June 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

Screwing with anything that affects weight, crits or such of the locked core is just plain setting a real bad precedent by breaking the core Omni MEchanics, and opens up the way for all sorts of abuse in the future. I'll pass on that, if possible.

Yeah, I can see your point there, maybe it's not the best idea after realizing the effect it would have on tonnage.

Bishop Steiner, on 25 June 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

If anything, let's simply leave the tonnage as is, but give the Summoner JJs a thrust and recharge profile in line with a Medium Mech.

Possibly increase it's twist rate and range, and torso pitch, too.

Simply make the Summoner markedly nimbler and more mobile than the TWolf, and it will have a niche, beside for those of us who just like how it looks. Heck if the Nova can be made desirable, you's think 6.5 extra tons of guns would make the Summoner easy peazy.

This was basically the intent of the idea, just make the mech a bit more like a medium mech as far as jumpjets and such are concerned.

Edited by Pjwned, 25 June 2014 - 04:51 PM.

[Mcgral18]

One suggestion I saw on the forums, while it doesn't affect the Summoner directly, was for the Timberwolf S pods to require those 2 JJs per ST.

That means you can no longer have a Gauss and JJs in the same side torso, which means when they lose their shield side, they also lose their jumping capability, or have to mount weapons on more than one side of the mech.

Also removes an extra ton from the TimberTarts loadout.

Edit: Wait....there's one in the CT....well that could pose an issue to this suggestion. Well, if you needed more than 1 JJ to poptart, I guess that would fix this issue.

Edited by Mcgral18, 25 June 2014 - 05:43 PM.

[FupDup]

How about:

• Increase the quirks on the Prime's arms to give ~20% faster cooldowns, rather than just 10%.
  
• Give the Prime's left torso a similar quirk as the above, but for missiles.
  
• Increase the agility of all variants to have a greater torso twist range and somewhat faster twist speed (exact numbers may vary for balance).
  
• Hardpoint inflate the Alternate B's left torso to give it 2 missiles (the Prime still gets only 1 missile, but gives you much faster missile cooldowns).
  
• Maybe even inflate the Alternate D's side torsos to give 2 ballistics each, for MG boating fun (because bigger ballistics can't be used effectively due to tonnage constraints).

[TOPGUN Stinger]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 June 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

look at those athletic thighs! That's exactly what they do!

[Bishop Steiner]

TOPGUN Stinger, on 25 June 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

I may have thrown up in my mouth a little.

[Xarian]

The Summoner isn't crippled by its JJs - it's crippled by having FF and no Endo.

Two solutions. First, a minor Jump Jet revamp.
Timberwolf's jumpjets (along with all Clan jumpjets) should be locked - if an omnipod has jumpjets as an option, it comes locked with all of them.
Additionally, if your jump jets are lopsided (e.g. if you have more jets on one side than the other) then you get disproportionate thrust while jumping, which makes you go sideways or fall over.

Second, a revamp to the armor system.
The maximum armor allowed on any mech should be what it came stock; armor can be removed, but not added. Ferro should give a flat % boost to the mech's armor (say, 25%) in addition to what it does now. Suddenly the Timberwolf becomes the faster of the two, with more weapons and lighter armor. The Summoner has a lot more armor, though.

Also, give it better quirks.

[Bishop Steiner]

Xarian, on 25 June 2014 - 06:46 PM, said:

The Summoner isn't crippled by its JJs - it's crippled by having FF and no Endo.

Two solutions. First, a minor Jump Jet revamp.
Timberwolf's jumpjets (along with all Clan jumpjets) should be locked - if an omnipod has jumpjets as an option, it comes locked with all of them.
Additionally, if your jump jets are lopsided (e.g. if you have more jets on one side than the other) then you get disproportionate thrust while jumping, which makes you go sideways or fall over.

Second, a revamp to the armor system.
The maximum armor allowed on any mech should be what it came stock; armor can be removed, but not added. Ferro should give a flat % boost to the mech's armor (say, 25%) in addition to what it does now. Suddenly the Timberwolf becomes the faster of the two, with more weapons and lighter armor. The Summoner has a lot more armor, though.

Also, give it better quirks.

Timberwolf comes stock with 2.5 tons MORE armor than a Summoner. And it's Ferro, too. Speed is the same, btw.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Give the Summoner a larger torso twist angle.

[Mister Blastman]

The Summoner has always been a bad 'mech.

[Anakha]

I think just letting us upgrade the Summoner to Endo Steel or adding a Hero with Endo Steel add adding acceleration and a greater torso twist range would go a huge way to leveling this mech with the other clan mechs. That or just let us remove some of the JJ's its definitely unfairly restricted customization wise and has hardly any pod space and crappy hardpoints for a Heavy. Definitely needs PGI to show it some love and balance accordingly.

[Hatachi]

An easy fix would make a 8/8 quirk for Summoners a large boost to jump jets.